Apparently Ms. Cadence wasn't originally supposed to be an Alicorn. More proof that the horn is totally fake. I can't wait until the episode airs and Luna challenges her to a traditional magic duel. You can only keep up the charade for so long!
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208 comments:
Foist!
ReplyDeleteSo...does that make it canon or not? I'M SO CONFUSED
ReplyDeleteThe better news from this: it confirms Cadence as a season 2 character, and means that since Lauren was involved in creating her, she may not be the Hasbro marketing interference (some of us) feared.
ReplyDeleteI'm now actually really excited to see her episode(s). Should be interesting!
this...this doesn't sit well with me...
ReplyDelete"More proof that the horn is totally fake."
ReplyDeleteMaybe the horn is real but the wings are fake.
Hopefully they won't change the story too much to accommodate her alicorness...
ReplyDelete"More proof that the horn is totally fake."
ReplyDeleteMaybe the horn is real but the wings are fake.
Not worried...I'm sure there are other alicorns ruling other countries we don't know about. I'm ok with all this.
ReplyDeleteWell that's disappointing that they changed her into an Alicorn. But hopefully the episode is still enjoyable.
ReplyDelete@Steve
ReplyDeleteWhat ever happens in the show is cannon.
Interesting. Though I doubt it'll do anything as far as the episode she appears in goes.
ReplyDeleteI shall contemplate on this while watching more ponies.
ReplyDeleteDo Not Want another Alicorn. But I've been surprised at the way things have worked out before, so all we can do is wait and see.
ReplyDeleteOh... poor Faust.
ReplyDeleteI knew she was against the inclusion of a third alicorn but I had no idea she was actually involved in Cadence's creation!
This weirdly makes me feel better because it sounds like they won't even bother addressing her "alicorness". No way they're gonna try selling her as the 3rd "Goddess of Love" or some crap. She's a lesser alicorn, Tia and Luna are still the big guns, all is well, end communication.
ReplyDeleteI'm not worried. The comment thread for the episode will no doubt contain six different theories that fit neatly with my headcanon. I'll just pick one.
ReplyDeleteThis... doesn't bode well :(
ReplyDeleteAre we stalking Laruen now?
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I'm pretty sure cadence is a lesser Alicorn or something.
@mycutiemarkisagun
ReplyDeleteYup. I expect we'll get our standard season 2 awesomeness, and it'll end up being entirely cosmetic that she has wings and a horn.
I actually get the feeling that Luna won't be in the episode.... Here is hoping I'm wrong...
ReplyDeletebtw, about the "He'll be long dead before she even ages a day" thing......really, Mass Effect already addressed this issue via the Asari.
ReplyDeleteI never really thought that Luna and Celestia were the only alicorns anyway. They rule all of Equestria, but I'm sure there are others.
ReplyDeleteThe story behind Cadence could be that she was pink Celestia all along D:
ReplyDeleteI see the words but what do they mean!
ReplyDeleteIt's probably Hasbro going.. hey we got these alicorn thingermajigers. Lets sell them some more! Tada, there we go.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMy theory is that Cadance wasn't born an Alicirn.
ReplyDeleteSomething made her an Alicorn.
Well this is a surprising turn of events. But this could still mean anything. Cadance could be from a story that's told in the future episode. In my opinion I wouldn't mind seeing another alicorn as long as they represent some sort of important essence to the world (Celestia=Day, Luna=Night). I just hope they don't get too carried away with it and there turns out to be an Olympus-like realm of alicorns. We still have to wait and see what she's all about in the upcoming episode and hopefully it will be still enjoyable.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to go out on a limb and say she won't be an Alicorn in the show, only as a toy. It wouldn't be the first time the toys were different from the show.
ReplyDeleteWho the hell is Cadence?
ReplyDeleteAm I the only one who isn't that excited for Cadence? Or ,more so, concerned? I mean, I have faith in the MLP team, but something about this doesn't sit well with me. Not sure where the feeling stems from, but it's there.
ReplyDeleteI'm confident they'll do their best with whatever's being forced on them by Hasbro. They've done well with other forced things (the balloon, the train).
ReplyDeleteDoesn't mean it won't suck, but doesn't mean it WILL either. Hold off judgement until after it airs, ponies.
Chromosome, you aren't the only one. With Celestia and Luna I feel like Alicorns are deeply seated in FiM history, and if that's going to change I would hope that Cadence's existence would be more than just a flippant "oh here's another Alicorn lol enjoy."
ReplyDeleteBut, I have faith in most of the writers, as well as Jayson, Wootie, and Rob Renzetti. I'm sure I'll enjoy it no matter what, but am prepared for it to be low tier; I love being surprised when an episode is shockingly good. :D
I just figured being an Alicorn was a symbol of royal heritage.
ReplyDeleteObviously, "Prince" Blueblood is an impostor. Celestia's nephew my foot... >.>
@Brian
ReplyDeleteOH PLEASE! As if Hasbro would completely derp major design elements during the process of making a character into a toy!
What a crazy, stupid idea. You must be crazy and/or stupid to come up with something as wild as that.
@reynard61
ReplyDeleteYou're all wrong, all of it's fake and she's really a Griffon saboteur!
You guys are acting weird.. Alicorns aren't demi-gods or anything like that. They are unique, yes. But not like that. And there is nothing on canon that says that Celestia and Luna are the ONLY alicorns. Nor did it say they were all powerful or considered gods. We did see that there is an organized religion in the universe, but I doubt it is organized around them as according to Hearth Warming Eve, they weren't there in the founding.
ReplyDeleteI really should write a fanfiction that does a better job of explaining all this than what some people are putting out.
ugghh, im dreading this ep ruining all my headcanon. not to mention all the innocent fanfics...
ReplyDelete@RaccoonBL
ReplyDeleteGoing with this. She still lacks the mystical flowing mane of the Pony sisters.
Actually, didn't Lauren also not know that they gave Luna the magic mane?
It seems to me they're changing the fact of being an Alicorn from "Near unique" to rare, and making the Magic mane the thing of true significance.
I also wasn't thrilled when I saw another alicorn being added to the series. I'm with Seth, I want best pony Luna to take action.
ReplyDelete@mycutiemarkisagun
ReplyDeleteI'm assuming that was sarcasm (it is difficult to tell online. But if not
http://img.ponibooru.org/_images/346aa8316671323dc9d3f8d540658fcf/80212%20-%20apple_bloom%20cheerilee%20Cutie_Mark_Crusaders%20error%20Hasbro%20scootaloo%20Sweetie_Belle%20toy.png
@Graveheart
ReplyDeleteOr maybe, just like with real genetics, he has not inherited the necessary genes after his fifty something generations of descent.
@Annoying Conservative
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure raising the sun and moon, not to mention being immortal, qualifies for demi-god status.
Whether they're unique or not is what's being called into question. Their "power levels," if you will, are quite well established as being damn high.
@Chromosome
ReplyDelete@Cupcakes Nom
HELLLLLLL no ya'll ain't the only ones. Don't be fooled by the lack of worry or hostility in *these* comments. Bronies have already blown off steam and are just trying to think happy thoughts at this point. Every other comment I make concerning Cadence is pretty much still "DEATH TO THE FALSE GODDESS USURPER" lol. The news that the Goddess Empress of Ponykind lent her Holy Hooves to Cadence's creation is the best news we've heard about dat wedding thus far.
Well i think that we will have to wait and see what kind of background candence has... anyway i have faith in the team :)
ReplyDelete@Brian
ReplyDeletelol, they're STILL displaying Pinklestias at Toy Fair. That single white one is just for the Toys R Us set apparently. :\
MEGA sarcasm.
Yup. Hasbro's show and toy line. So they get the final say in things. I'm still not that worried. I doubt we'll see her more than we did Luna. One or two episodes. Then that will probably be it. And knowing the team, she'll be swayed into said episodes in a decent manner. I also guess I'm not as into some aspects of the show as others. I won't rage over another alicorn coming in from somewhere and making an appearance.
ReplyDeleteI really hope it's just a story or something.
ReplyDelete@KaijyuuIt has been established that unicorns can raise and lower the sun. It has also NOT been established that they are immortal or have very strong magic. The ONLY magic they have used is the magic of raising and lowering their respective celestial objects and using magical tools such as a door or the Elements of Harmony. They have not used anything else besides that making me believe that they have a very specilised magic and that because they can raise and lower the sun and moon easily, it brought them fame among the unicorns and their wisdom from being so old brought them respect from the other races. They could be respected as royalty just because of those two facts. The fact that they require active guards at almost all times means they are not immortal, and not demi-gods. Also, they aren't revered as such because of buildings or the like so that further supports my suspicions.
ReplyDeleteUnless you have proof otherwise, we are done here.
I'm not buying this whole "demi-god" thing. Sure, Celestia and Luna can raise the sun and the moon, but really, even regular ponies can control the weather and make seasons change. All it really tells is that the princesses are really strong magic users.
ReplyDeleteAnd, okay, they live for thousands of years... but do we even know if they're actually immortal? Even Granny Smith was around before Ponyville existed (which was supposed to be a long long time ago), so I'm thinking that all ponies are long-lived.
See the issue here is people actually buy those cheap lil plastic toys to begin with ^.^
ReplyDeleteYeah, that's all very loving and tolerating, but WHO THE EFF IS THIS BITCH? The sun, the moon and WHO EXACTLY? I'm worried they made her just to sell more toys and the story will suffer for it.
ReplyDeleteI'm actually okay with this, really. I mean at worst she will just have wings for no really good explained reason but other than that she won't really be that much of a big blow to the writing.
ReplyDeleteif stuff like this is the extent of the meddling, I'm fine with that.
Let's home Cadence pulls a Princess Diane in Pinkie Pie's R/C car.
ReplyDeleteWe don't know if it was Hasbro's "meddling" either. Maybe Jayson and the writers came up with some epic awesome story for her! We'll see.
ReplyDeletesee this is what happens when you leave creative control to a company that made GI Joe into the A-Team and Transformers into Alf.
ReplyDeleteYou just know they wanna make MLP into Fraggle Rock!
Wouldn't she be the 4th Alicorn? wasn't there a filly alicorn in magic kindergarten?
ReplyDelete@Annoying Conservative
ReplyDelete@Wloff
I think the Granny Smith example works against you there. For one, Granny Smith herself pretty much established that most ponies likely do not live as long as she does, by saying that she originally did business with Diamond Tiara's great-grandfather. This doesn't mean that he's dead, but we do see that her father now runs the business, implying that her elders have at least aged to the point of having to pass on the business (and extremely wealthy people... or presumably ponies, tend to not pass on a family business until they are very, very old and incapable of continuing to work). Furthermore, in the flashback, Granny Smith was young, but Celestia still looked exactly the same.
To top it all off, Word of Faust (or was it Thiessen? I don't remember, but it was one of them) says that ponies have slightly longer lifespans than real horses, at about 50 years. Now, of course, we already know that Celestia and Luna are each at least 1000 years old.
As for the point about unicorns raising the celestial bodies, that is true. BUT, it was implied that it took the entire unicorn race to do this, whereas Celestia has been doing it by herself for centuries. Plus, it's been explicitly stated on the show that she is exceptionally powerful, and even Twilight Sparkle, who may be interpreted as the living embodiment of the Element of Magic (since the Element was shaped like her cutie mark even 1000 years ago, when all the other Elements were shaped differently), fears her wrath.
Finally, as for them not being treated as religious deities in Equestria... They kind of are. Just look how many real world phrases with the word "God" in them have been replaced with "Celestia" on the show, such as "With Celestia as my witness..."
As far as the princesses having guards... Well, I believe Faust also said that Celestia can't really stand having guards or something like that, meaning she may not even need them. But that aside, they may NOT be immortal. But even if they're not (and really, a politician living that long has to be bullet-proof... or magic-proof in that universe, I guess), we already know that they're incredibly long-lived, and very powerful. Plus, a "demi-god" isn't a god, it's just a being so powerful that some may refer to it as such.
@Markus
ReplyDeleteThat's generally accepted to be an animation error and/or joke. Being an imagination scene, even if "real" it doesn't mean that alicorn actually exists.
Go ahead and call it the 3rd alicorn if you want, though! That's the great thing about fanon and headcanon. Derpy arose from an animation error, why not this filly too?
calm down She can be from a different land or if she does join their ranks as an Alicorn then so what. (She wont be nearly as ba as Celestia or Luna but nonetheless she will still be a princess)
ReplyDeleteALSO if you notice its princess celestia not queen celestia. SO BOOOM OI
@Markus People ignore that because it was all in Twilight's head.
ReplyDeleteOkay, I just need to throw this out here.
ReplyDeleteWe don't know how it's going to go down. It can be very good or very bad. This show, however, has surprised us so many times before that we shouldn't just knock the character before she even has a chance to show up.
If Cadence is a terrible character, and the episode makes our eyes bleed, then we can freely tear her apart. Until then, let's try to keep an open mind and let the team work their magic.
Welcome everyone to another thrilling episode of "It's magic bitch"
ReplyDeleteI wish Lauren hadn't said anything. This is going to cause enough fan strife without her adding to the fire.
ReplyDeleteI wish people wouldn't be so negative. I'm looking forward to finding out more about this character. I think she's pretty.
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure the new princess is a pink alicorn because they need one in their toy line-up, and Celestia is now going to be white.
ReplyDeleteNothing but business here.
"immortal demi-god marrying a regular unicorn pony"
ReplyDeleteI find this type of overanalysis exhausting sometimes. I know it's not a pure childrens show but it's not Battlestar Galactica either.
Oh sheesh, this again. Just like when Luna didn't mold within fan expected parameters. Someone somewhere has trod on the unwritten holy grounds of fandom lore.
ReplyDeleteThe series has never explained or stated the nature of Alicorns. Celestia and Luna are important Alicorns yes, but it never said that they are the ONLY ones.
Personally I hope Cadence sheds some light on this. I mean we barely know Celestia/Luna as is.
My god! this is what happens when Faust never was on the show....some people there just messes things up...
ReplyDelete@Chromosome
ReplyDeleteYou're never the only one.
But I kinda love to see this princess...but her wedding is kinda wierd....oh well
ReplyDelete@Flutterfan
ReplyDeleteNot to put too fine a point on it, but insofar this show has been FAR better written that Battlestar Galactica...
Clearly Cadence is the twisted lovechild of Twilight and Celestia. Just look at the hair and the colors!
ReplyDeleteSo I guess they ARE appearing in the actual show at some point? Huh... I thought it was just another of the tangentially related sets like the blind bags that aren't even background ponies. I wonder how they'll keep a wedding episode/movie away from cliché.
ReplyDelete@Derpy Hands
ReplyDeleteMy point is -- sure, the ponies view Celestia and Luna as more or less gods, or at least demi-gods -- and yes, they do have some kick-ass powers... but there can be any number of explanations for it.
Maybe Alicorns are a special long-lived breed of ponies. Maybe a "regular" pony can somehow become an Alicorn through some great feat, which is what Celestia is actually secretly training Twilight for. Maybe Alicorns are actually vampires and their long life is only because they feed on young fillies.
As we know so little at this point (and, let's be honest here, probably the writers don't know yet themselves) anything at all is possible.
@Corvus Dei
ReplyDeleteI'm not so sure about that. So far it had so many unsatisfying endings that it can rival with Ed Edd n Eddy and BG.
@Flutterfan
ReplyDeleteI love to over-analyze, but it's pretty much tongue in cheek for me. It's just fun :)
My take on her is that, while alicorns do occur in the royal family, they're a rare anomaly and Celestia and Luna are the only true immortals of the species. I guess we'll see.
ReplyDelete@wloff I actually subscribe to that second theory myself (that a powerful pony may become an alicorn, and Celestia is actually grooming Twilight to replace her).
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here (or hooves, if that's your thing). I just mean to say that no matter what the circumstances, alicorns are clearly pretty uncommon and special, and to introduce a new one to the series must be done with extreme care. And I hate to fall back on Word of Faust again, since she isn't even in charge of the show anymore, but she previously said that Celestia and Luna were the only alicorns. And considering she was allegedly "very involved" with the creation of Cadence, but was herself surprised when she heard about the new pony becoming an alicorn, I'd say they're probably superseding the rules she laid out for the series at this point. Which itself could mean that there IS an entire species of alicorns out there somewhere, but that's still kind of doubtful since we're most of the way through the second season and only now seeing our third one.
That said, it won't necessarily be a bad thing. It's something we'll have to wait and see about. And that in itself shouldn't be a bad sign, because honestly, we're waiting and seeing every single week that there's a new episode. How many of us said "If this Rainbow Dash episode turns out to be a 'learn to read' episode, I'm going to ragequit"? It didn't turn out that way, and was in fact well-received in general.
tl;dr: I'm just saying what we already knew all along. That a new alicorn is something special needs to be handled with care, but only time will tell.
Okay that just pisses me off to no end. You have Lauren Faust spearheading the creation of this new princess and making everything work... and then you come along and cock it up, and risk the whole series jumping the shark, all to make her an alicorn and sell toys that would have sold anyway if you had just written a decent episode.
ReplyDeleteWords cannot express how much that pisses me off.
so... I'm guessing this means that Unity worked?
ReplyDeleteFaust also said that at this point her opinion and view of things should no longer be considered canon. So why do people keep crawling back to her as if she is the only source that matters. She doesn't and never did.
ReplyDeleteThe longer i watch this community the more some people start to freak me out with their obsession over either canon or fanon. The comments i saw from bronies on the mlp facebook page (about Cadence) make bronies look like ungrateful spoiled brats.
Hearth's Warming Eve somehow made me much more open to the idea of Cadence. Still not exactly thrilled about her, but not too worried either.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I do prefer the idea that maybe she's not an alicorn at all, but a pegacorn. Two races instead of all three. Probably wouldn't be as long-lived or powerful as Luna and Celestia then either.
@Ki Like I said, that's why I don't like to use her as a source of information too often. Of course, everything I've brought up was from a time when she ran the show and what she said was gold, but as I've also pointed out, some of her rules are now being superseded by the current showrunners.
ReplyDeleteThat said, she's still a higher authority on canon than any of us, so if she can help shed any sort of light on things, then it may be prudent to take her word for certain things. It's still best to direct new questions to the likes of Jayson Thiessen instead though.
I feel like I can pretty much sum up in a very brief statement that most people here, like myself, are basically worried that Cadence may be the metaphorical "beginning of the end" to the series we love so much. I simply pray that this won't be true, and for now the best course of action is to wait and see what happens. It's clear the creators care about this series as much as we do, I'm sure they won't screw us over.
ReplyDelete@Crunch Nugget
ReplyDeleteWhy wouldn't the word Pegacorn apply to Celestia or Luna?
@Ki
ReplyDeleteBecause, maybe, she is the one who created this universe. That is why I will always consider her words pure truth until it is clearly stated otherwise in the show; others may think the same way.
And it's a good thing to be picky, it means we care ;) (I agree it has to be done in a appropriate way)
@Dusty the Royal Janitor
ReplyDeleteThis is the most ridiculous comment in this entire damn page.
Wow, Good job - just felt you should know that.
Stay classy, eh?
Cadence is a allicorn to keep the same Celestia toys models, just change the hair
ReplyDeletepersonally, I think that worst comes to worst, we tear apart the character when she shows up, and then buy the new toys they are making that aren;t Candace.
ReplyDeletebut she still could be good. I am as tentative as anyone, but this could be well explained.
Also, the existing princesses were around when discord was, and could use the elements of harmony alone. That has to count for something
@Vinyl Scratch
ReplyDeleteThe comment wasn't really all that classless or ridiculous. They did make a lot of assumptions (such as in saying that Lauren 'spearheaded' the creation of the character, when all we really know is that she claimed to have been 'very involved' in the story), and were quite visibly upset, but they did raise a semi-legitimate point. Lauren Faust did create the Friendship is Magic universe, and she did say that Celestia and Luna were the only alicorns, and she does claim to have been involved in the creation of Cadence, only to have the character turned into an alicorn without her knowledge.
Rational thoughts like "Well, it's the same team that was working with her from the very beginning, it's not like she created this series all on her own" or "It's their series, and they have every right to make a character an alicorn if they want" or "These people are very good at what they do, and they probably won't mess this up as horribly as we assume they will" tend to take a back seat to the initial response of "How DARE they?!"
People need to learn to chillax and think things over before posting, yes, but the reaction is completely understandable.
@Kaijyuu
ReplyDeleteYou dun derped... Unicorns raised the sun and moon before the alicorns... Only differentiating factor, power levels. They are also much less powerful, even combined than Discord, and he is only ever refereed to as a spirit of disharmony and chaos, not a god.
@richfiles
ReplyDeleteOh hey, richfiles.
Anyway, just wanted to point out that they never said anywhere on the show (or in questions answered off the show) that Discord was more powerful than the princesses. The fact that he was able to break logic to get around Celestia's impenetrable magic seal doesn't mean he's more powerful than she is. Nor does the fact that seemingly the only way to peacefully defeat him is by using the Elements of Harmony, which the princesses were no longer linked to. You'll notice that when he was freed from stone, he didn't directly challenge Celestia, but rather challenged her protégé. This could mean nothing, it could mean that he simply wanted to screw with Celestia by besting her student, or it could mean that he considered her to be an equal.
Of course, that's all speculation, but in any case, it was never stated that he is more powerful than the princesses.
@aufurfoxache
ReplyDeleteThat made me laugh my flank off... But still, that would be bad. She'd be dead, but then everypony would love her posthumously and mourn her and make a big buckin' deal out of it! LOL
@Derpy Hands
Consider older phrases like "By George!"... These used individuals like King George as the focus, in a manner to avoid the use of the Lord's name in vain. Such terminology has and was used in tradition. Given the fact that ponies live under an active royal family, and given the power of their rulers... It makes sense for them to use their names in their swears.
I still don't buy the god thing. I still say they weren't even born until after hearth's warming... That flag was NOT part of the flashback, but instead, was part of the modern stage setup.
You all of you fly the banners of the city of Bethlehem or Galilee or the Hebrew star of David to celebrate Christmas??? or do you use modern symbols, such as the cross, or decorated trees, or 4 or 5 pointed stars, or Santa? The fact is, the flag is a modern element, and was show to be as such when the flashback mode ended. I'm sticking to that belief until the show says otherwise, and word of Faust trumps the show for head canon.
Oh great, the Church of Faust is showing its signs.
ReplyDeleteThe canons Studio B brings is canon, end of story. Regardless of how Hasbro or Faust would have handled it, I trust in Studio B to wrangle it to a satisfying conclusion as they constantly have.
Also, fandom ideas and fanon are FUN no doubt, but you guys are pushing assumptions into the stratosphere. That includes the 'age of ponies' idea. Faust/Thiessen only SPECULATED at the moment. Until they EXPLICITLY say so, none of it is proper canon yet.
Speculation is all fine and dandy, but let's stop saying that assumptions = facts. It isn't. Sorry.
Said it before, and I'll say it again.
ReplyDeleteUnless there's a really good backstory and explanation, I'm just going to headcanon her out of existence as bad marketing.
I don't buy the assumption that Cadence was changed into an alicorn on Hasbro's demands. In the past they've not been particularly bothered about making their toys match the show: they were fine with Celestia being white even though, for the toy market, their preferred option was pink.
ReplyDeleteCould it just be that the writers, following Faust's departure, decided that the character would work better as an alicorn? Yes, Faust was the creator of the FiM world, but on stepping down from the show, she left it in the hands of others she deemed capable. At some point, they are going to make decisions that she herself would not have made. That doesn't make those decisions wrong: the show has always been more than Faust's pure, undiluted vision.
Maybe Cadence will work as a character, maybe she won't. But it's disappointing that so many people are unwilling to even give her a chance, based on her breaking some unwritten rule that has never been established or even alluded to in canon.
@Derpy Hands
ReplyDeleteBut, Discord has already faced them, that would be boring. Celestia's face and voice oozes worry and fear in that scene. Their spell couldn't even keep him sealed, because Celestia herself admitted all it's power came from the Elements.
As for why his didn't challenge her... It all comes back to it being boooooring... He KNOWS that she is no longer a threat... He sinks his fang into breaking the ONE threat that does stand in his way, the current Elements of Harmony. If he had let them run off, they might have found the elements. Given the nature of harmony, they might have even been able to find a way to manifest the power of the elements through pure harmony, the way Hearth's Warming Eve happened.
Discord HAD to break the minds and spirits of the Element bearers as quickly has possible, to avoid the risk of failure.
Quite frankly... Tho ONLY reason he had any time to tease at Celestia at all, was because it furthered his goals of allowing the bearers of the Elements of Harmony to fall into his plan.
Discord is shown to be able to command the Sun and Moon... And the weather... and the underlying physics of reality. These are powers that far exceed anything Luna or Celestia have even remotely been able to exhibit.
Celestia has powerful dispelling magic, along with the magic of commanding celestial motions. She can also teleport with exceptional skill.
Luna also can teleport, while her magic also shows a penchant for illusion and transformation (starry mist travel, changing her appearance to look like NMM) Luna also has the Royal Canterlot Voice, which appears to be an atmospheric amplification spell, that amplifies the vibrations in the surrounding air (amplified voice, as well as exciting nearby clouds and winds and what not to naturally amplify their activity).
Neither princess is ever shown with significantly more fundamental powers. They do not Will matter into or out of existence. They don't magically make a storehouse of food full due need. There are still farms and weather patrol to make these things happen! They don't manipulate the fundamental laws of nature, not even for good... Discord does, and he does it to stroke his ego.
Every single aspect of that episode SHOUTS that Discord could better both princesses with one paw tied behind his back. He simply had to contend with breaking the mane 6 so he would HAVE free reign!
@richfiles
ReplyDeleteThe cross has been in use as a symbol for thousands of years. It's hardly a modern symbol. Before it was a symbol of Christianity, it was a symbol of the most brutal form of execution the Romans could come up with. I'd have to look up exactly when the cross started being used a Christian symbol but people have known about it for millennia.
In any case, this is could be my personal annoyance with why it's such a big deal that Cadence is an alicorn (Sweet and Elite had a baby alicorn someone with a good eye was able to snap a shot with), but I don't get why it is. I could also be speaking as a writer who uses entire herds of these animals. I seem to be the most open-minded about Cadence being an alicorn than a ton of people in this fandom. That's disappointing. What she is shouldn't matter as long as she's well-written and not there taking up space. The jury is out on that until she and Shining Armor actually appear. A well-written character should matter way more than what species an animal is. Can't everypony just hold judgement until then?
Personally, I think she may be the one who controls the seasons. One never knows. There are plenty of things in nature an MLP alicorn could control. The Sun and Moon are just two things and there are forces just as powerful as they are.
Maybe she´s just an alicorn for the toys, and just a Unicorn, Pegasus in the show?
ReplyDeleteWhy do I hear the jaws theme playing every time I pass the aquatic obstacle course?
ReplyDeleteIt dawns on me that we may not want to take the word of Faust thing too far when dealing with things after her removal from the team.
ReplyDeleteIf we start disliking a character simply because Lauren Faust said-whatever, the powers that be may seek to silence her, at least within regards to the show.
Definitely scared about Cadence. Something about her just doesn't sit right with me. I really hope the team has something brilliant in mind to add her into the show or she's likely to dissolve all of my head canon.
ReplyDelete@richfiles
ReplyDeleteCelestia nor Luna have had any REASON to do what Discord did. At all. Discord loves screwing with things, so he did it. The Princesses don't like screwing with things, so they don't.
I have half a mind that is what happened with the EverFree Forest. They lived in the Castle there, so it likely was the capital (Much like Canterlot). Stuff hit the fan with the NMM incident, and when they fought one another, the forces of reality changed for miles around them.
And on that note, they may wish to avoid a direct confrontation with Discord. I'd imagine several beings of unimaginable power battling each other would cause quite a mess of the surrounding landscape. Engaging in that sort of battle without a massive advantage (EoH) is just going to lay waste. Just like the Everfree.
It all depends on how you look at it.
@richfiles
ReplyDeleteThat's a nice and rather detailed fan speculation about Discord, but it's still not necessarily the case that he's more powerful than either princess.
You can say Celestia was "worried". Well, wouldn't you be? Even if the threat was only your equal, or even less powerful than you, would it not still be cause for worry that a logic-defying reality warper has broken free from a stone prison?
I'm not saying he ISN'T more powerful than the princesses (though I personally prefer to believe he's not, for various reasons that would turn this into a wall of text similar in length to yours if I were to type them out), but there's nothing canonically saying that he is, either. You may interpret him that way, but it's all speculation one way or the other.
As for phrases like "By George!", you've got me there. Still, at other times they treat the princesses as supernatural deities, such as when Luna first touched down in Ponyville on Nightmare Night. And even further, I already put forth my claim that "demi-god" does not equal "god" in any sort of way. I believe that still stands.
Also, I think Christmas may be a bit of a flawed example of whatever you're trying to say. Christmas was adapted from pagan holidays and traditions and assigned to a random night of the year that most likely was not even close to when Jesus was actually born (inb4 people claiming no such person ever actually existed... that's not the point one way or the other). Very few of the symbols of Christmas have anything at all to do with what actually happened in Christian mythology, but it was stated that all the Hearth's Warming Eve stories and carols were taken directly from the first ever Hearth's Warming Eve, meaning most everything probably was historically accurate. Furthermore, ponies seem to have a very good understanding of that period of their history, likely lessening any historical inaccuracies further.
cadance might actually turn out good... is about character and personality!
ReplyDeletetrowing in another alicorn eternal demigod while you stated in the first episode there were just 2 of them....is confusing.
we have to hope that they'll come up with a way to handle it. i would be disappointed if i learn that alicorn are common and demigods just happen to born every year in equestria.
i hope they'll come up with a an exaplanation...why didnt' she showed us her plot first? where was she during the whole discord and nightmare moon mess? is she celestia and luna's sister? is she immortal/thousandyearslived like them?
@shadefox
ReplyDeleteThis person actually touched on a few of my reasons for believing the princesses to be Discord's equals quite nicely, but again, it all comes back to which way you want to interpret things, since there is no definitive canon on "power levels" or anything.
See people, now you can stop whining that Cadence episode will suck.
ReplyDeleteEven before this, why assume that it will be bad? Do you seriously think the writers will just dump a shitty episode on us solely because of two new characters being implemented? Yeesh.
I have no issues with Cadence, at least certainly not before I even see her story. I've said before, even if you take Alicorns to be godlike, it's exceptionally rare to have a 2 god pantheon. Feel free to consider Cadence a Demi-Alicorn if it takes the sting off of things.
ReplyDeleteAnd personally, yeah, I go with the god-like side of things... Apparently immortal, controlling the sun and moon, name used in place of "God" in multiple idioms... There's only so many times I need to be told that something quacks before I get the impression that I'm supposed to be picturing a duck.
And as for the unicorns calling forth the sun and the moon, pre-Celestia, well if the spirits of the sun and moon are Celestia and Luna, then all they needed was to be able to call on them to do the actual raising. The Pegasi were the military power, and the Unicorns were obviously the Church power analogy... They controlled access to the temple, so to speak. Pay them tribute, and they saw that you got the blessings you needed for their crops. Also explains why Celestia and Luna would be on the flag back then... They were worshipped, but not there in person. They didn't step in directly until Discord.
@Soph93
ReplyDelete"why didnt' she showed us her plot first?"
Ahaha, thread won?
Eh, I trust the team will be handling it just fine.
ReplyDeleteI don't see why there can't be more alicorns out there, and I honestly think many of us have been over estimating the sisters powers. After all, in Hearts Warming Eve Spike's narration says the unicorn tribe originally raised the sun and moon, before Celestia (and Luna's) rule; raising the sun and moon doesn't make them goddesses, though doing it on their own does speak to their power. Given that the sisters have proven to be extremely powerful I've always put them in demi-god tier at the very most. Who knows, maybe Cadence will turn out to be not terribly powerful at all, and being an alicorn is mostly a sign of royal blood and/or responsibility.
Theory #2: Hasbro needed to use up excess Pink Celestia toys.
Reason why Discord is stronger than Luna/Celestia is because it took TWO of them + Elements of Harmony to lock him up. If they could have wanted to damage him or banish him forever, they may have. They couldn't.
ReplyDelete"And personally, yeah, I go with the god-like side of things... Apparently immortal, controlling the sun and moon, name used in place of "God" in multiple idioms... There's only so many times I need to be told that something quacks before I get the impression that I'm supposed to be picturing a duck."
ReplyDeleteI think that's too romantic of a thought to call them gods. Unicorns and even Earth ponies has some godlike powers and strength and they are not special for it. In fact, looking at Twilight Sparkle's PHOENIX FORCE mega-power, it could be that all ponies has a very high ceiling of power in GENERAL. So the 'god powers' are NOT special at all, but latent in all ponies.
Also, I'm sick and tired of people saying that alicorns in background in this show are 'mistakes'. Once or twice? FINE. Four, five, SIX times? That's not a mistake.
@richfiles
ReplyDeleteYes, we've seen a lot of Discord powers, but that's it. We haven't see much about Luna and even less from Celestia.
Which means that they both could be way stronger than Discord. Thus, the reason they didn't fight him is because there's balance to maintain and destroy him would result in the end of the world !
Or, in the past they were strong enough to compete with him together on a same level, or slightly below, but had to use the elements of harmony. Since millennia passed by, they have surely evolved and gained power. Maybe now, they can overpower him but don't have the right kind of magic to destroy him and need the elements to contain him; and possibly, their fight could cost live of many ponies nearby, considering the amount of power involved.
I agree that's speculation, but it is not unlikely. As far as I am concerned, what I saw in the episode is two (well, three) powerful beings/puppet masters playing chess, knowing perfectly that a direct confrontation would be fruitless.
Discord is just more.. intrusive in the game.
Bah, others are too fast for me :(
ReplyDelete@Harwick
ReplyDeleteYou voiced my thoughts on the subject of unicorns rising the sun. If alicorns really did not exist at the time of unification of Equestria (and the story itself could be treated as myth and not a fact) the spirits of Sun and Moon resided in the celestial bodies themselves. So unicorns were able to rise the Sun and Moon by invoking them, but lost this ability when Celestia and Luna came into existence as equinomorphic personifications of celestial bodies and vessels for their spirits.
On the subject of Discord: he broke Mane 6 by denying and corrupting their most important believes and traits. Celestia was supposed to break after seeing how easily her beloved subjects and friends have been discorded (especially her dear student). But Twilight was able to resist longer than Discord expected and Celestia remained uncontrolled.
It's already been established/foreshadowed (quite cleverly) that there are other alicorns in the show. Look at the book in Hearts and Hooves and look at the princess in the illustration. She has wings and a horn; she's an alicorn.
ReplyDeleteThis was drawn quite deliberately and demonstrates that the developers want us to know that, through the use of props, there is more to the world than what is said.
What I find interesting is that Cadence doesn't have wavy, magical hair and seems much smaller than the other two. Kinda like a de-powered Luna. Perhaps she's a low-level alicorn?
I don't really see alicorns as gods, more like enlightened beings who've gone to the next level/step/stage of existence or development, and immortality and power comes with it.
@Annoying Conservative
ReplyDeleteIt's very hard to place. One one hand:
1. Celestia has ruled for 1,000 years. She seems to be either immortal or very long lived. As far as we know, nobody has challenged her rule except for Nightmare Moon.
This could be construed as the Ponies have tolerated her 1,000 year reign because she possesses it by divine right.
2. Celestia and Luna are strongly implied to be more powerful than standard unicorns. This could simply be because the have a lot more experience with magic due to their long lives.
On the other hand:
1. Celestia is a princess, and not God-Empress or something. Aside from some remarks meant primarily to be funny, there is no evidence that the ponies treat Celestia and Luna as anything more than their rulers. We never actively see ponies praying to them or at alters to them.
Nightmare Night my be seen as an exception, but this seems to be a hokey tradition that nobody really believed in anymore.
2. They have never been referred to as being goddesses by the ponies or in the show.
Essentially I think that based on the evidence, and based on how Celestia treats her subjects, the princess ponies (at least Celestia and Luna) are likely more in the same tier as the Istari (i.e. Gandalf) from Lord of the Rings than full blown deities.
The fact that Ms. Faust says she was involved in Cadence's creation but the original design wasn't a winged unicorn may be taken to construe that her own idea was that Celestia and Luna were unique.
That doesn't mean that the writers can't think up something that makes sense. So far they seem to have done a good job with taking things that were obviously forced in by Hasbro and making them work (such as the train, hot air balloon, etc.). While Characters are of course a bigger deal than props, the writers have managed to make episodes about dress making and attending fancy balls extremely entertaining (something that normally I would dislike).
Wait. Shes not working on the show? Does that mean milky way girls?? I like alicorns. There needs to be a secret civilization!! More alicorns!!! MORE!! MOAR!! MMMOOOAAARRR!!!!
ReplyDeleteHmm interesting, wonder what made them change their mind, could be that princessess become Alicorns, will have to see how it pans out when the episode is shown which should hopefully address the situation.
ReplyDeleteSounds like marketing stunts.
ReplyDelete@Shippoyasha
ReplyDeleteFour, five, six times? I hadn't heard about more than just the one in Twilight's imagination until someone mentioned there being one in Sweet and Elite in this thread. Even so, how many times have they forgotten to apply the ponies' cutie marks? How many times has Rainbow Dash been wingless? How many times has Fluttershy's tail gone missing? Rainbow Dash once appeared BEHIND a duck that she was standing IN FRONT OF, for far more than just a few frames. It was noticeable.
Animation errors happen. Frequently.
@Shippoyasha
ReplyDeleteEh, it all comes down to personal preference. However, for me the show is so steeped in classical mythology, from architectural designs to monsters, that the idea of a range of supernatural types from Zeus on down fits quite comfortably.
No idea how near the top Celestia might be, but in terms of classic mythology, she'd certainly be considered a sun god.
Derpy Hands, there's many, many other 'error ponies' spotted before. This most recent one must have been at least the 6th or 7th time it has happened but they're clearly being more 'blatant' about it I suppose. I agree animation errors do happen, but they did catch onto Derpy very quickly. The only 'errors' I can truly see is them reusing Bonbon/Lyra a trillion times, but they could be doing that on purpose too, to troll the viewers. Like how Bonbon gets a new voice each appearance.
ReplyDeleteAs for the 'depowered alicorn's, that makes sense. Look at Luna after her defeat. The "Woona" of the second episode. Maybe some higher level of power level has them have the wavy, starry hair. Kind of like... Super Saiyans.
So, Cadence is a actual valid character then, there goes my fears of her being artificially inserted to sell a toy.
ReplyDeleteWhat does still suck, she was turned into an Alicorn by marketing to sell toys.
Oh, and I don't mean the 'errors' in animation like floating legs, the no-faced pony, etc. Those are true blue animation blunders. Not when it's the 6th, 7th alicorns in the background. Perhaps slyly so.
ReplyDelete@Shippoyasha
ReplyDeleteAgain, nowhere is it said they can't have fought him and won, even without the EoH.
My thoughts on the matter are that battles like that are damaging. Even two demi-gods vs one demi-god is going to cause massive collateral damage. And when he was holding out in either Canterlot, or Ponyville, the collateral would be ponies lives. And another Everfree Forest.
Better to use something so overwhelmingly powerful to seel him away without said collateral occuring. If it fails, then they can deal with it manually.
They just don't want another EverFree Forest happening.
Different ways of looking at it. Neither is wrong, because there is no canon right answer.
*cough* watch?v=Nn3XyyM9HHg#at=19 *cough*
ReplyDeleteoh goodness, it's alicorns all over again :D
Fair enough shadefox. I don't really mind either answer. I just guess it's like Batman/Joker syndrome. Joker/Chaos has the power in that their chaotic nature and callousness is a source of empowerment for them. While the heroes has to balance out more than just fighting them.
ReplyDelete"Not originally an alicorn"
ReplyDeletePlastic surgery confirmed to exist.
@shadefox
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFlOZFSIsMQ
I'm a little conflicted here. I've never considered Celestia and Luna to be gods. I figure they were created magically, probably by the unicorn mages of old, for the specific purpose of uniting and ruling Equestria. If they could make two alicorns then presumably they could make three or more.
ReplyDeleteHowever... Cadance suffers from a bad case of "Who ordered this?"
Maybe Cadance is like a spare tire -- created in case something unfortunate happened to Celestia or Luna, and until then she just hangs around and looks pretty. But if that were so, wouldn't it have become Cadance's job to raise and lower the moon while Luna/NMM was hors de combat?
Lauren didn't give her approval -> not canon.
ReplyDeleteThere. This method generally works.
Lauren didn't give her approval -> not canon.
ReplyDeleteThere. This method generally works.
@S008, the thing is, even Lauren said the show is Studio B and the other writers' property now.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Faust did say that the Ponyville and even Equestria can be seen as a single country, not the world itself.
Ok here's how I see this statement. In the original plans the type of pony these two were was never addressed and thus it isn't that she was changed into an Alicorn but that she was designed as one and Faust wasn't involved in the designs hense her suprise.
ReplyDeleteBefore someone corrects me I mean the designs for these two, I'm well aware Lauren Faust worked on designs in the show.
@Municipal Engines
ReplyDeleteThat book shows her as an Earth pony the first time around. It's not until the book is shown again later that she has wings and a horn. One illustration or the other was likely an error. Likely the one without the wings and horn, since they'd have to be deliberately drawn, as you said. Even so, it could just be a case of the animators screwing with us, or for all we know it could even be an illustration of Celestia herself. It never did say the name of the princess.
@Shippoyasha
She said that she envisioned it that way, but that it was intentionally left open to interpretation.
@shadefox
ReplyDeleteWithout knowing the specifics of the back story, everything is speculation. It is difficult to determine who is "more powerful" than who when comparing Celestia and Discord because things are simply more complex than who has the larger "power level."
My thought based on S2 Eps. 1-2 is that Celestia may be immune to Discord's mind tricks. I am basing this idea off of the fact that Discord seems to find her "boring" (meaning he was never able to make her do wacky stuff like he was to other ponies) and that he doesn't even bother trying to influence her the same way he does to the Mane 6. Either Celestia is simply too smart / wise to fall for his tricks, or she's inherently immune to his powers.
On the other hand, it seems clear that Celestia can't outright kill Discord like she probably very well could to most creatures (not that she would). He's not something that is "killable" in a traditional sense, and it is useless to try to physically impede him.
Only the Elements of Harmony can stop Discord. However, since Celestia lost her connection to them for an unspecified reason, she's basically powerless against stopping him even though she is at no personal risk.
Ultimately this means the two must battle by proxy, because there is nothing they can do directly to each other.
Again, all speculation.
Who says the horn is fake? Maybe it's the wings, and she's just magically making herself fly?
ReplyDeleteEither way, maybe there really WAS a third alicorn and there was just no need to mention her before now.
Luna appearing in that episode, though, would be really, super awesome!
We finaly got something to bitch about now )) third alicorn was realy a bad move.
ReplyDelete@Rasly
ReplyDeleteThey may be defying Faust-canon a bit by doing this (although for all we know, it could all just be a dream or something), but... eh, it's like Dash said.
@Klice
ReplyDeleteFaust always had a team of capable artists and writers surrounding her though. Not to mention the fact that several concepts we see in FIM were not created by Faust but by writers and artists long before Faust got this project. Like for example the concept of talking, colorful ponies in a magical land...
I'm not sure if anyone else made this connection, but in the Lord of the Rings, Arwen and Aragorn have the exact same immortal mortal relationship.
ReplyDeleteHasbro gonna Hasbro.
ReplyDeleteIt would actually be awesome if that was the case (she's faking, therefore she can learn a lesson about love and stuff), but given that they already have toys, I doubt it. D:
ReplyDeleteCANDANCE IS THE FOURTH ALICORN ! HEARTHS AND HOOVES SHOWED A NEW ALICORN WHEN THEY TOLD THE STORY ABOUT THE LOVE POISON.
ReplyDelete@Critic
ReplyDeleteSee:
@Derpy Hands
@Rasly
ReplyDeleteI think it is premature to declare Cadence a "bad idea" until she is actually seen in the show.
Cele=Day Luna=Night Cadance=Dawn Twilight=Twilight?
ReplyDelete@Shiranai
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you say. Were Celestia and Luna gods or even demi-gods, how come they had no role in founding Equestria? And don't forget, in Return of Harmony Part 1 Celestia herself says that Discord used to rule the country, so we may take it that the princesses started reigning over Equestria as a consequence of Discord's defeat. This is how I envision it, at least. Comparing Alicorns to Istari is quite effective, since they may be regarded as powerful, semidivine and rare beings stemming from some mystical primeval power, though not necessarily being worshipped as gods.
This is, if it's not already been said, a case of either "hasbro wanted an alicorn", "they'd better have a good excuse", or "it's all gone horribly wrong" - to be facetious about it. I'm... relatively trusting, they've done right by the series so far, but there is always the spectre of "we must have toy X". Maybe they can do it anyway, I don't know. I know how I would. Read on for that, if enough ponies care.
ReplyDeleteMost likely, hasbro wanted another alicorn princess for the toy lines - either that, or the "princess" title means "alicorn" (whereas, strangely enough, "prince" seems to mean only "unicorn", so go girl power I suppose). This means we either have a very rare occurence (so all the "twilight is now a princess" stories are essentially "alternate canon"), or alicorn princesses that aren't Celestia and Luna are just fancy unicorns, or... we have the sad possibility that fanon outstrips canon.
Fanon can stick to rules that the owners want to get rid of - for example alicorns. This means fanon has the potential to be better than canon, strangely enough.
If there can be alicorns, then what is the message behind being an earth, unicorn or pegasus pony? Make way for the master race. That would be sad, and diminish the world. That's the real reason behind fanon not getting behind alicorns much, if at all. An alicorn should be something special, so toy line or not, an entire land of alicorns just cheapens the deal and lessens their impact in stories.
How would I deal with it? Why, another realm, another land, with another alicorn princess to raise their sun and moon. I can deal with that very easily, far easier than a "low powered alicorn" popping up just because.
Cadence may be a princess before Luna and Celestia were born! She could even be their mother! It doesn't say how long ago Equestria was founded so it could easily be thousands of years older than the other two princesses.
ReplyDeleteWell, that's not exactly reassuring. MLP; FIM has never disappointed me, though, so I'm counting on the writers to make sure it all makes sense.
ReplyDeleteput wings on a unicorn, and instantly all things go to hell.
ReplyDeletei'm not worried, for starters they never specified that Luna and Celestia were the only Alicorns, they just happen to be the only ones we saw, aside from that little filly in Lesson Zero.
secondly, what exactly does this change? friggen nothing! the story will continue the way that it was made, regardless of her species.
people freak out about the smallest crap, and i for one can't wait to see this new Princess Cadence.
I have a bad feeling about this...
ReplyDeleteGuys come on, when has MLP:FiM done wrong? People ALWAYS freak out over tiny things like this. Remember when Lauren departed from the show? People went crazy but it's still going on and is just as good as season 1 was.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure they'll explain Princess Cadence well enough in the show. I mean Lauren Faust didn't get to work on the finished version of the story, so probably the other writers will give an explanation and people will enjoy the episode, just like every other episode. There's no need to jump to wild conclusions and bash something that hasn't come out.
Hey, do you guys remember that moment in "The Mysterious Mare-Do-Well" when Fluttershy (disguised as the MDW) flew over Dash's cloud after Twilight (disguised too) fixed the well using her magic horn? That should've been enough to make everypony think the Mysterious Mare was an Alicorn. Still, nopony seemed extra-surprised or thrilled by that fact. They acted as if it meant no actual difference, as long as she kept rescuing the ponies.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the "special stuff" of Celestia and Luna isn't all about being Alicorns themselves, but rather about having extraordinary magic powers and god-like lifetimes that might don't have any fundamental bonds to the Alicorn race. Heck, I'd like to see a Pegasus being the god of wind, if you know what I mean.
We have the standard vision that every alicorn is god-powerful because the only two we've seen so far are. It might be an uncommon race, yes, but it might also be just an unicorn with wings, nothing more.
@Amonisis
ReplyDeleteMight have been a compromise for white Celestia, but who knows what went down. Trust Faust and Friends, they'll find a way to make it work. Especially if it's a stallion killer mom of Celestia and Luna, who goes through husbands like m&m's. ;D
Hey guys Cadance will be the fourth alicorn princess in canon....
ReplyDelete....Or did y'all miss the one in Hearts and Hooves?
@Corkscrew
ReplyDeleteYes, I noticed to.
So, the Princesses is what I would call Wind Alicorns('course of wavy mane xD) and Cadence is a casual Alicorn.
@Blackbelt Thinks she were the most powerfull unicorn?
ReplyDeleteMaybe the introduction of another Alicorn to the show is a callback to the 80's group of princess ponies? (See: Quest of the Princess Ponies.) Just a thought... they all had their own separate talents, like growing flowers and bringing wind, etc. What if Cadence keeps magical balance, or something like that?
ReplyDeleteI know it's a long shot, but that's what I thought of when I saw her. And I do seem to remember Faust saying somewhere that she was initially inspired by the group of princess ponies.
Either way, whether the fandom likes it or not, MLP is targeted toward young girls, who like pink princesses. They do have to maintain a balance between the two communities.
All I'd say is wait it out. This episode could be surprisingly great, and expand further on the world information. I'm so sad to see so much self-entitlement reading these comments. Just wait and see, guys. At the worst or you'll have to do is ignore her. Like NM, and Discord, I can't see her sticking around for long.
Well, there's my two cents.
I look at it this way: Hasbro decided to please the fans of the show and allowed a white Celestia doll, on the condition that a pink Alicorn would be made canon in the show (or rather, a character already established got an upgrade) in order to even up the sales (Pink = more sales, this has been proved).
ReplyDeleteJust look at the upcoming toy lineup, Hasbro really expanded their target audience. It's only normal we accept this compromise on our end; Princess Cadance will appear, make a reputation for herself and then... who knows? Who cares?
Always remember the reason for the show, and realize what Hasbro has already done for us. There is no reason to panic and claim the series will be worse off because of it.
I always felt Alicorns were balanced in the current setting because of how rare they are, even if a few more pop up, who cares? They're not a 'master race' (if anything, unicorns are, but nobody complains about them), Celestia and Luna could be overthrown in their current state.
As always: just enjoy the show, don't ruin your enjoyment (and the enjoyment of others) because of mere assumptions.
@ somepony above
ReplyDeleteDashie also says "In the name of Celestia!"
I withhold my opinion and theories until I watch the episode.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the story goes like this, Cadence was an earth pony before and she was not a royal one. And Celestia magically made her an Alicorn.
ReplyDeleteNotice how Lauren completely dodges the bit about immortal demigods or whatever and goes straight to "Wait, she's an alicorn? I don't remember that...".
ReplyDelete@shadefox
ReplyDeleteIf a demi-god vs demi-god equals a everfree forest, the the Everfree Forest was created by demi-gods brawling. Who and when was that?
I'm going to try and avoid all speculation about Cadence and just wait for the episode to air.
ReplyDeleteStudio B has not let us down yet, keep faith in them.
I bet you Princess Cadence rules another country and is marrying Shining armor to combine the two Royal Families and thus, the two nations. Celestia, Luna, Cadence, and Shining form a sort of oligarchy to rule the newly formed nation. Why? Well, the canon reason may be that the other nation has some resource that Equestria doesn't, or maybe Celestia just wants to expand. The real reason? Hasbro might want to sell new castle, town, and house sets from places in Cadence's country.
ReplyDelete@Is the Cake Really a Lie?
ReplyDeleteI knew she would be a Alicorn someday!
Two things :
ReplyDeleteIf she's an Alicorn, then she should be single and never get married. Because we think that's totally so awkward.
If she's a unicorn, Pegasus or an earth pony, we don't mind her getting married and it's right.
@Vinyl Scratch
ReplyDeleteYeah, my bad. Usually I'm a lot more collected. I was tired and had just spent a full 14 hours studying for a test that I knew for a fact I was going to fail anyway.
Sorry about that. My reservations about Cadence shouldn't warrant me losing control like that.
Im going to have to hold my opinion of Cadance till I see her in action lol. But I think it would have been better to have her as a normal unicorn. And who knows maybe if the moms a unicorn and the dads a Pegasus a alicorn might be born but not be super powered
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@Scribejay
ReplyDeleteGASP
@Valinye
ReplyDeleteWe figured that part was obvious enough not to warrant mentioning. I mean seriously, you could see it from space.
I was assuming that Cadence was the sisters' mother. You know, question of their origin, this comes up. It'd be interesting to see what happens, regardless.
ReplyDelete@Sandman
ReplyDeleteShe's probably dodging it for good reason. Anything she says at this point, regardless of her original intent, can and possibly will be contradicted by future episodes.
who is this new alicorn? i dont remember showing in an episode. is it a toy only? if so, then don't worry. remember the "special" edition ponies. the rip offs that look just like the mane six but names and painted different. the toys are separate in many ways to the show.
ReplyDelete@Sandman
ReplyDeleteYeah yeah. I hit the post button on that hours ago and the page borked so I moved on. Came back later and saw all the other posts - smiled because I was not alone. *Then* my post shows up and I knew I'd get some wiseacre comment about it. :D
I am curious how these episodes will work out. I am yet cautiously optimistic, so far the writers have always done a stellar job and the hints dropped in Hearts & Hooves are also kinda uplifting (assuming the whole thing is not just a coincidence). Only time will tell, but it might all be good.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I am fully prepared to rage for hours on end should the episodes actually be bad.
Whoever made this third alicorn is treading on thin ice with me. Honestly, hasn't he/she heard of the unspoken rule about alicorns? And, while I'm on the subject, have they heard about the rule of simplicity? They've broken both, and now we have a super-powerful alicorn princess Mary Sue that is garish to gaze upon.
ReplyDelete*sigh* Procrastinating and berating are two things I need to stop doing...
I wonder why people just assume the alicorns are godesses o.O
ReplyDeleteI mean, if that's part of your personal beliefs on the show, sure. Whatever. But the guy in the question pretty much acted as if them being gods was entirely canon... If you can't prove that they're deities why would you complain to a staff member about why a regular pony would marry what YOU believe is a deity? Or even ask a question like that? You really can't go around asking questions about stuff that's only part of your personal beliefs on the show :\
(And for the record, long lives+high power does not = deity. We have no knowledge of them being immortal, and we already know regular unicorns can raise and lower the sun too. Could they be deities? Yes. But it's not canon, so please, let's not go around asking the developers questions based around those assumptions :P)
@Masquerade
ReplyDeleteWhat unspoken rule? I don't recall the writers of MLP entering an agreement with the fandom in which we approve all plot elements and characters.
It also seems unfair to make claims about Cadence before we have even seen the episode. We don't know anything about her, and it would at least be fair to wait until we seen her in action. She might end up being completely awesome.
Well this calms my fears significantly. They were not great fears as I was confident that the people at Studio B would handle the addition of a new alicorn in a logical manner. I doubt that the original script for the wedding has been changed, only Cadence's character model. She will probably simply show up with wings and horn with no in-universe significane to them (i.e. never specifically addressed).
ReplyDeleteHasbro probably figured that all princesses should be alicorns to fit the toy marketing. Plus this allows them to make Celestia's toy white, so people would stop complaining about it, and still have a pink alicorn Princess doll to sell.
I am still excited for the episode.
@Shiranai
ReplyDeleteThat's actually part of my hopes. We could use a really kickass character IMO. There hasn't been a very popular character in season 2 for the fandom yet. Adding a new one would be pretty neat.
First off, reading through all this, you guys have really given me some different ideas of how this character could go.
ReplyDeleteAlso, he wording of Lauren's post makes me a lot more hopeful. Even on her way out, it's hard to believe Lauren would just let a standard fairytale princess though. Especially if she says month slater than she was "Deeply" involved in the conception..
Maybe Cadence will be awesome. Maybe she'll be funny, or sarcastic, or a bad-ass. It could happen in this show. Worst case scenario, she's totally insipid and doesn't say much, and then it's over, and we won't have to deal with her again.
I suppose in that case... I can probably just have headcanon that she's only an alicorn for show, or something. Like it could be a royal wedding procedure, inspired by the Sisters, that the bride is temporarily illusioned up a horn or wings. So that's good. ^^
ReplyDeleteIt's still a shame and a half that Hasbro decided to meddle in this way, though. :|
meh who cares
ReplyDelete@Ki
ReplyDelete"The comments i saw from bronies on the mlp facebook page (about Cadence) make bronies look like ungrateful spoiled brats."
that's cause those are the brat bronies, just cause bronies are like that does not mean they're ALL like that.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VocalMinority
"One bad apple spoils the whole bunch."
My fanfiction is safe..... But I will still kill her and conquer her kingdom.
ReplyDelete@Ki
ReplyDeleteOh come on, you can do better than that :D
I should have made my thoughts more clear. I was not talking about the whole idea of pony, obviously. But about the things directly connected to FiM. After all, she is the creator and most of the ideas come from her, from her childhood when she was actually playing with those ponies.
I know she needed a team to gave us all those awesome episodes and I still verily enjoy the current ones.
Still, the two regal sisters and Discord were HER ideas. The formers coming form bible pony, if I remember correctly, and the latter she clearly stated she wanted a villain like Q in Star Trek. So, as long as it is mythology and/or the sisters/Discord related, I heartily accept Faust's vision as canon. Once again, until it is clearly stated otherwise in the show; even if my heart would bleed for that.
Peoples drink her words because she was team leader for a time and she is, like it or not, the creator of the FiM universe.
P.S And once again, I don't belittle the participation of the other scenarist. They still do an amazing job ! :D
so it was originally not an alicorn
ReplyDeleteim blown away
@C.Olimar788 I'm still of the opinion she's a traitor pony and got her powers by making a deal with the dev... I mean, Discord. Once she marries the Prince, Discord will be set free again and devour Pony souls like Pinkie nomming cupcakes!
ReplyDeleteCuz, pony souls are tasty, ya know?
Actually, my guess is that Celestia is supposed to be a sort of magical philosopher queen figure, much like Prester John in medieval legendry.
ReplyDeleteImmortal? Check. Powerful and magic? Check. Wise? Check. Ruling a blissful and peaceful kingdom? Check.
A god? Nnnnope.
@richfiles
"By George" actually means "By St. George", not King George. St. George was of course the patron saint of England after the Conquest, and thus a popular swearing choice -- right up there with St. Michael, St. Peter, the Virgin Mary, et al. However, it was pretty common to swear by little local saints too.
And of course, King Arthur, Merlin, Charlemagne, Frederick Barbarossa, Earl Fitzgerald the Wizard Earl, and a whole bunch of knights, horses, et al are all supposed to be immortal, only biding their time until they are needed once more.
ReplyDeleteArchetypal rulers? Eyup.
Demigods? Nnnnope.
I wonder what story they'll give for her.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, I'm not exactly looking forward to the Wedding Episode, though I'll watch it and who knows? Maybe it'll be good.
@Derpy Hands
ReplyDeleteThis reminds me of when I was re-watching Fall Weather Friends recently, and I caught Rainbow Dash running with the background ponies past both AJ and Dash after they had tripped up. (Seriously, just freeze frame at 13:20, there's a wingless Rainbow Dash right next to Bon Bon, and again at 14:31)
Reguarding Candance: I never had a problem with her being an alicorn, as long as they explain it somehow. Even an off the cuff remark would do. I did have one crazy idea where alicorns were actually from another planet, and regularly switched ruling Equestria with each other every thousand years or so...but that's so crazy it would never happen, right?
@Choco
ReplyDeleteCelestia vs Nightmare Moon
The Castle in the Everfree was a castle for both Celestia/Luna.
But I'd hardly think they would build such a castle in the middle of a forest where monsters roam and reality doesn't work the same.
The castle also would have come after Discords rule, as he was there before Celestia/Luna.
So, the time line is Discord Stoned -> Built Castle -> EverFree Forest -> Now.
What's the big BIG things that could be on the scale required to create the forest, in between building the castle and now?
Two possibilities come to mind. Either the Elements Of Harmony banishing NMM. Or Celestia and Nightmare Moon facing one another in battle.
I find the battle is more likely the EoH causing it.