I'm glad I'm not the only one that screws up the news. Maybe I need a corrections section?
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This has been floating around for about a week now on their online corrections section, but for some reason has exploded today, and now it is on the actual Hub Facebook page. The New York Times definitely strives for accuracy!
I'm glad I'm not the only one that screws up the news. Maybe I need a corrections section?Share This!
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76 comments:
Fluttershy as the NERDY INTELLECTUAL?
ReplyDeleteWell, nice to see they actually care about accuracy.
ReplyDeleteI AM DISSAPOINT!
ReplyDeleteHow could they have made such an egregious mistake?
ReplyDeleteThe original text this refers to is very interesting since I have Asperger's too! Just read it today :3
ReplyDeleteWow, they certainly do like to keep accurate.
ReplyDeleteEh, confusing Fluttershy for Twilight. They're both awesome and adorable. <3
As for a corrections section, Seth. If you did that we wouldn't be able to make as much fun of your mistakes then. :(
I already saw this, mostly because John Green reblogged it on tumblr. I watch the guys vlogs and read his novels, but I laughed pretty hard when I saw that the post was pony related.
ReplyDeleteSaw this at least seven times in as many places. But seriously, how do you screw up Twilight with Fluttershy? They're nearly polar opposites. Hypothetically speaking, of course. But this made my day otherwise.
ReplyDeleteWhere's the original article that they were listing a correction for?
ReplyDeleteno seth dont need your corrections mistakes are part of the human being
ReplyDeleteLove and tolerance, it's all good :D
ReplyDeleteBut um... What's Asperger Syndrome?
Never mind, I found it: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/26/us/navigating-love-and-autism.html
ReplyDelete@PoisonJoke
ReplyDeleteIt's somewhat like autism, but usually not quite as severe in it's effects, if I recall.
I visualize Twilight Sparkle to keep myself happy too.
ReplyDeleteSo since I think of her nearly 24/7, I'm happy all the time.
@PoisonJoke
ReplyDeleteFrom Wikipedia:
Asperger Syndrome...is an Autism Spectrum Disorder that is characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction, alongside restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests. It differs from other autism spectrum disorders by its relative preservation of linguistic and cognitive development. Although not required for diagnosis, physical clumsiness and atypical use of language are frequently reported.
Seth, you set yourself up right there.
ReplyDeleteMaybe not a corrections section, but an auto-pagebreak instead?
Thanks for letting me know :)
ReplyDeleteAnd though I haven't read the article, I'm happy the woman found that a pony (whether it be Twilight or Fluttershy) helps to make her happy, they have the same effect on me and I'm sure numerous others. :D
@Gwriterk
ReplyDeleteBecause you don't watch the show and have no idea which character is which. :P
At least they caught the mistake. Fluttershy or Twilight: love them both!
ReplyDeleteIt's obvious to us but to someone who's never watched the show they could make that mistake.
ReplyDeleteAnd remember the article has nothing to do with MLP, the girl in the story just mentioned the show and Twilight.
Frankly I'm impressed they issued a correction at all.
@PoisonJoke
ReplyDeleteAt the risk of massive oversimplification, um, see Twilight Sparkle. :-}
It's not quite fair, but it's certainly understandable how someone with Aspergers could find her a role model: someone who has had to literally *study* and analyse friendship in order to experience it, because it doesn't just happen naturally like it seems to to normal ponies.
It's a form of high-functioning autism. People with it tend to have high intelligence, especially for technical or 'geeky' subjects, but struggle with the kind of interpersonal relationships and behaviour that seem to come intuitively to others. I'm sure there's more to it (I'm not referring to notes or wiki) but that's a quick reference.
I've had people suggest to me that I might have aspergers; including one whose own son definitely was (and yeah, i totally outgeeked him on getting a recalcitrant mac online); but haven't had a definite diagnosis, and frankly, I'm not sure I'd want one.
But Twilight Sparkle is definitely Best Pony for me. Go figure. I might admire others, especially Rainbow Dash, but Twilight's the one I tend to identify with.
Most people wouldn't care if they mess up Spike with Celestia ;) Respect for NYT professionals!
ReplyDeleteMany mainstream news outlets write about ponies these days. BoingBoing posted about MLP creator today:
ReplyDelete[WARNING: POST IMAGE CANNOT BE UNSEEN]
http://boingboing.net/2012/01/05/create-your-own-my-little-pony.html
@Flutterfan
ReplyDeleteAgreed, and it's a pretty classy correction. They could have just said "we meant Twilight Sparkle", but instead it's quite lavish. And it's a really minor detail in a huge feature-length piece.
After, the author wrote:
“I hate to get anything wrong, but I confess to some enjoyment in finding the right way to phrase this one.”
http://www.observer.com/2011/12/a-brony-correction-in-the-new-york-times/
I have tried to think of a witty new word created my merging "Seth" and "corrections".
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, I have failed.
@StrangeNoise
ReplyDeleteIz got Aspergers
LIKE A BOSS (ಠ_ృ)
@StrangeNoise
ReplyDeleteWow, I actually didn't think about the cognitive difficult they would experience simply trying to understand what friendship is, something I know I take for granted being able to experience.
When I said that I was glad that Twilight was making her happy, I just meant it like that. You said you can relate to her and I can definately see that. I thought I was moderately intelligent and you just threw a Few big words my way that I didn't understand. :P
Personally, I'd relate to Fluttershy more. I'm not shy around friends, but I love animals and love just having time to slink away and be quiet.
I like this conversation :D
@myself
ReplyDelete*"by", not "my"
I've always hated that a lot of the articles point out autistic Bronies. I don't have anything against them, but it doesn't give a very good impression.
ReplyDeleteAfter the Wired article was printed, everyone seemed to think I'm an autistic antisocial loner who collected toys for little girls. I'm none of those things. Bronies accept anyone, of course, but media outlets always seem to choose autistic Bronies with a room full of pony toys who wear pony clothes and attend every meetup they can. They never seem to pick a "typical" Brony.
lol, if theyr personalities were actually switched
ReplyDeletewell we know how twilight is with animals already
@Peter
ReplyDeleteIt's a story about two university students with Asperger syndrome navigating a relationship, it's not a story about MLP. The girl just apparently mentioned that she enjoyed My Little Pony.
It's apparently a really good article, I'm going to check it out now.
Way to go above and beyond, New York Times.
ReplyDeleteHa! Last week when i was waiting for my flight back to Vancouver, i picked up a copy of the time's and i saw this exact same article. When i saw the reference to Twilight was mislabeled as Fluttershy I tore out the contact information section in the front of the paper to email them when i got back from Honolulu.
ReplyDeleteNice one!
ReplyDeleteOne of my cousins has Asperger's, but luckily he has improved a lot the last few years :)
@Dͪ͊ͦḮ̘ͯS̔̐̓C̹̔Ã’͓͙̫R̀͠͞D͙̫ Who else would put so much effort into a username? :-P
ReplyDeleteThat was a good article.
ReplyDeleteI was wondering whether this was going to show up here or not. It's not the worst pony screw up I've come across. My mother confused Fluttershy for Buttercup from the Powerpuff Girls, so there you go. Great that the NY Times put out the correction, and great to know that even though it was just a small mention, that MLP plays a role in these two persons' lives.
ReplyDeleteDot dot dot.
ReplyDelete@Gwriterk
ReplyDeleteWell, if you don't watch the show much or at all, then obviously the names aren't going to be as meaningful than they would be if you got to know the characters. My mom always calls Twilight Sparkle "Rainbow Dash". :P
@GabuEx At least your mom is in the same show. My mom wasn't even remotely close one time (see my post above.) I facepalmed so hard that day, once I was out of sight of course.
ReplyDelete@CityFlyer502
ReplyDeleteI dunno, she might mean the rainbow dash that always dresses in style. :-)
Awww. Thats so endearingly sweet. I wish those two the best of luck. Man, this show really can be such a positive thing in peoples lives.
ReplyDeletedo people still get their news from the times?
ReplyDeleteO.O who knew
@StrangeNoise She's only familiar with this generation of ponies, so that's highly unlikely.
ReplyDeleteGreat, now there's a new sterotype that bronies are autistic, oh well...
ReplyDeleteI find this epic. Are there bronies on the NYT staff, or did the community just flood the paper with letters? XD
ReplyDelete@ilovebagelz
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, I guess this means I further the stereotype, as I have Aspergers' Syndrome.
Hey, glad i'm not the only autistic brony out there! This makes me happy.
ReplyDeleteWell, considering I used to love Care Bears, MLP wasn't very far off...
I like the fact that the boys father is John Elder Robinson and wrote the book Look Me in the Eye, I loved that book. He did a lot of awesome things like design the light shows for KISS when they went on tour, he even made the rocket guitar that they used.
ReplyDeleteThis is important
ReplyDelete@ilovebagelz
ReplyDeleteI don't think it should honestly matter if some bronies are autistic or not, and the notion that the fanbase or even just some of the fans would be treated with less dignity and respect because of a stereotype pisses me off greatly. Of course, the world is full of douchebags.
As someone who apparently has Aspergers myself, I can guarantee that part of the difficulty in being social when I grew up was dealing with assholes, which just fed into my nature of not really wanting to deal with my peers. Most people grow out of that to the point where they don't care that someone is aspergers, or don't know because they don't know their past having more trouble socially/respectably (as even someone who's not as social can come out of their shell).
I suppose I'm just pissed because I know what it's like to be treated condescendingly and picked on, and the thought of anybody having to be treated that way just makes me want to punch something.
@B-Man
ReplyDeleteI don't have any problem with people who have Aspergers but there is one symptom of the disorder that, I will admit, worries me a bit. Now, I have two friends with Aspergers and have done some research on the disease and one common trait I've noticed is people with Aspergers tend to have trouble with empathy.
Now, having trouble with empathy means that you have trouble knowing when you're annoying someone or when someone just doesn't care about what you're talking to him about and can make you seem very obnoxious.
This has been true with both my friends. The first one eventually got sent to boarding school but he had a lot of trouble dealing with being told "no" and was always trying to force people to play online games with him. (Such as Minecraft and Terraria)
The second friend is a fellow Brony and isn't nearly as forceful but I have noticed that he can get to be obnoxious at times as well. He can also seem to be one-dimensional in his interests and, at the same, time be blissfully unaware that he sometimes annoys people.
Now, both of my friends are great people and have a lot more positive aspects about them but what worries me is that a large population of Bronies with Aspergers may, unbeknownst to them, come off as obnoxious to a less-than-tolerant crowd.
What I would like is some input or reassurance that this won't be the case. Do most people with Aspergers have trouble with empathy like this?
Okay… wow. Let me say that I don't consider myself a "brony" or part of this particular community. I do like My Little Pony very much. I'd like to say I don't have anything against this community, but some of the comments here…
ReplyDeleteFrom peter:
"After the Wired article was printed, everyone seemed to think I'm an autistic antisocial loner who collected toys for little girls. I'm none of those things"
Hey me neither! Well I'm autistic, but I'm not some kind of autistic media stereotype. Neither is any other autistic person I've met, not even people who've been forced to think they are. (anyway if someone was antisocial would they really join a fan community...?) And I am totally pickin' up those same vibes from the media about "bronies" and autistic people, but as an actual autistic person I think being repeatedly stereotyped on the basis of a developmental disability I have (rather than a TV show I like) is way worse.
From Filiecs:
"Now, having trouble with empathy means that you have trouble knowing when you're annoying someone or when someone just doesn't care about what you're talking to him about and can make you seem very obnoxious."
No it doesn't! Autistic people don't have trouble with empathy, anyway. What does that even mean? Are you people having a lot of empathy for autistic people when you repeatedly stereotype us like that? Oh I forgot, it says in a very important book that we have no empathy, therefore it must be true.
What if it went down like this:
"I have a friend who is hispanic and [racial stereotype]. Are all hispanics [racial stereotype]?"
No they are not! Srsly! And not knowing when you're upsetting someone just means that you aren't paying attention, you have trouble reading body language, that the person you're upsetting isn't being clear enough, or that you're just especially oblivious. I've met tons of non-autistic people who are somewhat oblivious.
aaaggghhh
(from 1-10 my annoy-o meter is just at about 5, I don't really have a problem with any of you. it's not your fault that your mothers/the APA didn't teach you any better.)
I can't imagine Twilight being more comforting than Fluttershy, but to each their own I guess :p
ReplyDeleteYes! Yes! I read the original article, but I could barely get past that part. Haha I'm so glad they fixed it. A wrong has been righted - the world is a happier place.
ReplyDeleteWHy do I have the feeling haters will fly this one like a banner?
ReplyDelete*aspegers syndrome*
ReplyDeletegreeeeeat.. why did you guys have to correct them...
>but for some reason has exploded today
ReplyDeleteNo kidding. To any other punk fans out there, even Plow United posted this image on their facebook.
Wait, I thought Cheerilee was the nerdy intellectual and Diamond Tiara was the kind animal lover?
ReplyDelete@Filiecs Yes, it is one of the key variables in discerning whether or not the subject is within the bounds of the Autistic Spectrum.
ReplyDelete>Assburgers
ReplyDeleteI just want to say, Seth, that I sent this to you when it first came out and you did nothing with it. :p
ReplyDeleteSimple explanation: Somebody at NYT is a brony. There's no way this cannot be true.
ReplyDelete@Pancho
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I was talking about Aspergers' Syndrome specifically in my post.
"What does that even mean? Are you people having a lot of empathy for autistic people when you repeatedly stereotype us like that?"
I wasn't stereotyping. When I said that it seems like most people people with Aspergers have trouble empathizing with others I was making a logical inference based upon both the fact that empathy is one of the common symptoms of Aspergers' Syndrome and my personal experience, not jumping to a conclusion.
Furthermore, I didn't say "no empathy" I said that they "have trouble with empathy" and I never once said "all", I said "most".
"'I have a friend who is hispanic and [racial stereotype]. Are all hispanics [racial stereotype]?'"
I am talking about a mental disorder that is diagnosed based on several obvious symptoms, not a physical trait.
"No they are not! Srsly! And not knowing when you're upsetting someone just means that you aren't paying attention, you have trouble reading body language, that the person you're upsetting isn't being clear enough, or that you're just especially oblivious."
First of all, if the person is standing right in front of you, I'm pretty sure that you're going to notice them not caring, It's pretty hard to be oblivious to another persons actions or feelings unless you have trouble understanding what they are feeling.
Furthermore, Having trouble reading body language means that you are having trouble being empathetic.
"...that the person you're upsetting isn't being clear enough,..."
Would you like to be told that you're being annoying or, more importantly, would you make an ass of yourself and tell someone else to shut up? Even when stated politely telling someone that they are being annoying can be harsh.
"it's not your fault that your mothers/the APA didn't teach you any better."
For your information, my mother teaches special ed and is just now finishing up her PHD. I have asked her for advice on the issue several times and has said that, yes, people with Aspergers tend to have trouble with empathy.
All I'm asking for is whether or not having trouble empathizing is one of the more common symptoms in those diagnosed with Aspergers syndrome.
@Filiecs
ReplyDeleteYeah, a common problem nowadays is people taking offence in scientific facts.
You described a disfunction, you described symptoms of the said disfunction - and now you are "bad" for "stereotyping" everyone suffering said disfuntion with this symptom.
That's not how cause and effect work.
But doing that is important, as disfunctions should have the defining lines as clear as humanly possible. Like in the case of Asperger's where some people tend to go for the sexy "high-intellect loner" description, not recognizing that by doing so they diminish the tragedy of kids who suffer from the real thing.
Much like Cartman in South Park, when he pretended to have Tourette's syndrom, all the while real kids suffered from it - their parents broke up, they couldn't go to school, they couldn't find jobs when they grew up...
So there should be a distinction. If you have Tourette's, and there are clear scientific symptoms for your condition - you can call me a dick and a fag all day long, I can take it.
If you are just being a spoiled brat - you are getting your jaw dislocated.
Applejack cheers me up the most.
ReplyDeleteI'm infantil autist by the way.
" I have asked her for advice on the issue several times and has said that, yes, people with Aspergers tend to have trouble with empathy."
ReplyDeleteAnd a generation ago they would have said yes, homosexuality is a mental disorder.
Go a bit further back and the APA would say yes, imprisoning women in mental institutions and bloodletting them is an appropriate decision for a husband to say.
I'm also totally telling you that I could be oblivious or stressed out enough to not be able to read someone's body language, especially since autistic body language is different so I have different frame of reference.
Or I guess you could tell me that your mother knows more about me and my autistic friends than I do. She has a PHD after all! Must know everything about us worth knowing.
Maybe she should go get a PHD in hispanic studies and then she could start telling me what my family's cultural traditions are.
"Like in the case of Asperger's where some people tend to go for the sexy 'high-intellect loner' description, not recognizing that by doing so they diminish the tragedy of kids who suffer from the real thing"
That's a stereotype too but whatev whatev. And again I'm actually autistic (I even have a diagnosis if that matters to you, although I don't put much stock in diagnoses personally) so I'm not diminishing anything. I got tons of problems and I'd LOVE some help with them. They just don't result from "lack of empathy."
Anyway obviously I can't convince you all, I shouldn't even really be able too since I'm just one person. Just trying going out and talking to autistic people... with an open mind. Almost anything can be described in terms of "social skills," that doesn't mean that it actually results from that. Read things autistic people have wrote online. Look up political groups run by autistic people. That sort of thing. I'm not saying anything new here.
That's ALL I got to say about this. Regardless, though, there are clearly a lot of "asperger" people here though so think about (have some empathy) for how you're making them feel, eh?
@Pancho (and Filiecs)
ReplyDelete"Or I guess you could tell me that your mother knows more about me and my autistic friends than I do. She has a PHD after all! Must know everything about us worth knowing."
This captures a lot of the problem with what you're saying, Pancho. You were identified by a psychologist as having autism, but you implicitly reject the idea that psychologists can even properly describe the symptoms of Asperger's. You need to decide whether psychologists have the authority/right to define and declare Asperger's, and up until now your stance has be inconsistent.
Two solutions to this are possible: you can either take the definition of Asperger's strictly or take it loosely. If you take it strictly, as defined by whatever organization defines it (the APA I guess), you also have to accept the direct logical implications of that definition, as well as the risk (as you noted has happened with things like homosexuality) that it might be biased and wrong. On the other hand, if you take it loosely, it's no longer possible to reliably determine whether a specific person has Asperger's, and any argument will degenerate into a bunch of No True Scotsman fallacies because anyone can decide that an example person has Aspergers based on their own internal view.
This is of course quite a sticky situation, but it would be nice if everyone made sure to look at it from both sides before just getting angry at each other for being wrong or intolerant. Also, I'm not a psychologist, I don't have autism, and I didn't intend any ad-hominem attacks against Pancho or anyone else.
Twilight Sparkle is best pony!
Like I said I don't put much stock in diagnoses, although I AM diagnosed. That's kind of an e-cred thing although it shouldn't be.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe it's possible to definitively define autism, either, because if you talk to a bunch of autistic people you will see that even if they look the same on the outside, sometimes they will be having very different internal experiences. What's called autism is basically a bunch of different neurological phenotypes- people who end up having certain commonalities in experiences, movement, and perception, but not always for the same reason. Autism is not one "thing."
The issue, though, is that the mainstream media descriptions of autism are SO stereotyped that they don't describe very many people. But people who do fit it (or who can be made to look like they do or who can be convinced that they do) get held up as True Autistics. This is the same way any stereotype works.
And yeah this is pretty clearly in the realm of opinion, but I think it's closer than the DSM gets. Especially since the other approach leads to people making sweeping generalizations about how we're going to ruin the brony community through being obnoxious and association.
That's my take, you can agree or not (I've met both psychologists and autistic people who wouldn't).
Gaggkk, if there ANYONE in this fandom that DOESN'T have an ASD????
ReplyDeleteI'd be fairly annoyed if I had to leave to avoid perpetuating a stereotype.
oh by the way, you might have missed this but part of why I mentioned "hispanic" is because anglo people do try to tell who is and is not hispanic, what being hispanic means, etc
ReplyDeleteside note: I heard about this show from another ASD person so maybe not
@Gwriterk
ReplyDeleteNot really, they are both socially awkward and stuff. I say Pinkie Pie and Fluttershy would be better as polar opposites, but still not really.
@Peter
ReplyDeleteYou got the completely wrong point here. They weren't looking for bronies, these two people are two internet celebrities in the autistic community, it just so happens the girl likes the show and she likes Twilight Sparkle.
@PoisonJoke
ReplyDeleteI have Aspergers, and at I relate to both Fluttershy and Twilight Sparkle. Anyway, I don't lack the cognitive ability to understand what friendship is, the problem is figuring out how to make and sustain them.
@NickJohnson
ReplyDeleteThe thing is autism is based on observed behavior, and assumptions are made about the state of the mind based on the behaviors, but those conclusions may not be accurate. Recent research is showing that many of what was once thought to be fact regarding autism is actually false.
Another problem is the word "empathy". Do people with autism lack empathy? Depends on what you mean by that. That fact of the matter is, there is no such thing as empathy. It's term that's too vague to be meaningful when describing autism. Can people with autism feel what other people are feeling? Yes they can. Can they instinctually deduce what other people are feeling based solely on body language? Maybe not. That's where the difference lies.
Fluttershy and Twilight Sparkle are the two ponies most likely to be autistic, so yeah...
ReplyDeleteHeh, I might be responsible for this correction, I'm Ganondox on the original news post.