A new episode is airing in just a few hours. As always, expectations are high, and we are all excited to see our favorite ponies being awesome. Lately though, the comments on episode posts have been less than respectful of the hardworking team that works almost year round to bring us new episodes to enjoy.
The massive amount of fan content created in this community is excellent, but it also blinds us a bit to the actual workings of the show. Last week was probably the worst case of this. I was glad to see a lack of explosions over Luna being totally different than our fan versions. As a group, we did a good job of taking in the real Moon goddess. The outcry in comments over Mare-Do-Well's identity was a bit ridiculous though (among other complaints). As cool as Derpy or Trixie jumping out of the costume would have been, that isn't really how the show has ever worked. It's about the Mane six, not our fan characters.
Please try to be respectful. The people at Studio B/Topdraw do us a huge service already. They read comments on EQD, and a few have been a bit put off my the brony community lately. Working on a show of Friendship is Magic's caliber, especially now that the pressure is on, isn't an easy task. They set the bar high, and so far have done a great job of hitting it, and even exceeding it.
We don't need to be critical of every single aspect of the cartoon. Enjoy it for what it is. FiM is making history, just enjoy the ride.
403 comments:
I'm sawwy :'(
ReplyDeletePeople Are Assholes, what can i say
ReplyDeleteRespect the creators, without them there would be no ponies.
ReplyDeleteWell actually , there would be, but G3's are creepy.
I will respect the show as I always do, Seth
ReplyDeleteThank you, sometimes fans go a bit too far.
ReplyDeleteWell said.
ReplyDeleteIt's ok, it's a Rarity-centric episode, so this one can't loose.
ReplyDeleteWell said!
ReplyDeleteAll buckled in...LET THE RIDE CONTINUE!
ReplyDeleteI love the show, and a good majority of the fan content. I have no complaints.
ReplyDeletePeople were upset about the identity of Mare-do-well? Why would you be is really the question.
ReplyDeleteGood to see I wasn't the only one thinking this.
ReplyDeleteI think the real thing that people are flankhurt about is that they put two Rainbow dash episodes in a row
ReplyDeleteNothing has nearly disappointed me, so I am certainly enjoying every little thing about their hard work.
ReplyDeletePeople are critical before they are admirers. That's just the way it is.
ReplyDeleteI do have one question, though
ReplyDeleteWhy is it called a flea market, when they don't actually sell fleas?
I feel bad about how the community looks when people don't get what they want and cry about it. I want the crew to show us their creative minds. So far it's not a let down. I would honestly like to dig around in their heads because their imagination and creativity blow my mind.
ReplyDeletePicture should have been the mane six cross armed like D:<
ReplyDeleteWait, people were actually mad that it wasn't Trixie or Derpy? Like they seriously hoped that would happen?
ReplyDeleteI think people are getting ahead of themselves...what should happen is whatever they make happen not whatever we want to happen. What's the point of getting mad it something like that?
I had no idea that people were actually complaining about the identity of Mare Do Well. How could you expect it to be anything OTHER than the mane 6?
ReplyDeleteGlad I stayed out of the comments last week. I liked The Mysterious Mare-do-Well. In fact, my concern is for how they plan to top Dash being awesome. I'd have loved to see Trixie, but I thought we all knew that was a million to one odds going in.
ReplyDeleteI may have my least favorite episodes, but I aint gonna go all "Royal Canterlot Voice" about it. Much respect for the folks that bring us this awesomeness every weekend! And for those who don't like'm, shut yer piehole or else Molestia will find you in your sleep. O.o
ReplyDeleteThe More You Know.
ReplyDelete*Cues the music*
As much as I do love this fandom and their interpretations on characters of the show, we frequently seem to forget that no matter how awesome we make something seem, it's not canon. Just because the show might blow fandom theories and interpretations out of the water doesn't make them any less awesome. I mean, I still see fics with Luna today that still have her more similar to how fans in envisioned her. Love it. But I also love how the show depicts her. Same goes for the Mare-Do-Well theories.
So come on, Everypony, enjoy the show, and remember, just because it isn't canon doesn't mean we have to stop doing what we love.
@TheIdlingRev who saved the pony from the blimp? Which pony was that? Not complaining here, i'm legitimately curious
ReplyDeleteI agree, but with a caveat. I think criticism is okay as long as it's constructive and respectful. Obviously, asking us as a community to be nothing but a blanket of constant approval is both silly and not going to happen, but I think it's important that, if you don't like an aspect of the show or, hell, even an entire episode, you explain why in a clear and concise manner. Nobody wants to read "wow dat suks," but if you have something to say regarding the episode's quality, don't feel that you need to only shower compliments. Just, you know, be smart about voicing your criticisms.
ReplyDeleteThank you for posting this Seth. Those last 3 sentences really sum up my thoughts on the entire series and fanbase. It's about the show - the community is absolutely amazing, but it owes its entire existence to the show - Any time we start putting the community ahead of the show and its creators, and everyone who works on it, we start getting into dangerous, unpleasant territory.
ReplyDeleteBlimp? No, I meant hot air balloon
ReplyDeleteCan't agree more.
ReplyDelete@Bombedrumbum
ReplyDeleteThat's because it's the fleas that do the selling, silly.
Thank you Seth!
ReplyDeleteCompletely agree. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the people that work hard to bring us this wonderful series. They pour everything into this series, and to just rip into them for everything they didn't do is just showing them a complete lack of respect. Anyone reading this from Studio B/Topdraw, this is the closest to a standing ovation that I can give you. Rest assured that this brony enjoys and appreciates all of your hard work.
ReplyDeleteA few bad apples doesn't have to spoil the whole bunch. They do, however, make the bunch less appealing and turn away those who would otherwise partake of the fruit. Let's all take a minute to reevaluate ourselves and keep in mind that our actions do indeed have consequences.
ReplyDeleteUh-oh, Dad's disappointed in us...
ReplyDeleteI actually fully agree. While Mare-do-well wasn't my favorite episode, I still loved it for everything that it did right, and any other pony behind the mask would've just been silly
Hear hear.
ReplyDeleteI have been impressed by season 2 so far. Studio B/Topdraw ftw! Keep up the wonderful work!
ReplyDeleteHere here. Thank Celestia for Sethisto.
ReplyDeleteThis couldn't be more true. Very glad you posted this.
ReplyDeleteThey really work their hearts out! All of the animators, editors, and musicians are quite amazing. They do such a great job :) ill find a perfect pet for you guys as well!
ReplyDelete@Patchwork Poltergeist
ReplyDeleteAh, yes
humans suck....its better to be a pony!
ReplyDeleteso bronies..act like a pony not some smug human
you couldnt have picked a better dashie shot!!!!
79996663
80000000 is not far..and should hit well BEFORE the episode airs..there is litteraly 2 hits every second right now!!!!!
Nicely said.
ReplyDeleteIt's simple. Stop over analyzing the show.
ReplyDeleteI hate to be the pony that disagrees (well Diamond Tiara is my avatar) but...
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure I agree with the premise of this. If we're judging solely by the comments on the EQD there was plenty of negative comments on Mare do well the episode but the dissapointment over it not being Trixie or some other pony was minimal to nonexistent as far as I recall.
I think it's ok to not like a episode and be negative as long as you're being constructive and not be too overreactive.
I'm sorry if the people who work on the show didn't like what they see but honestly this is one of the more positive fanbases I've seen. Let's not criticise the fans for having standards.
Personally, I thiought it was an awesome episode.
ReplyDeleteI also wish more bronies would remember that the intent of the show is, after all, to sell ponies and pony accessories to preteen girls. Just because we have seen tropes like "friends step in to prank someone who's ego threatens to block out the Sun" over and over, doesn't mean that the average eight year old girl has. Beyond the point that "tropes aren't necessarily bad," some of us need to remember that "it's not a cliche if you haven't SEEN it before."
ReplyDeleteNot that I want the production team to get lazy, but using a familiar plot well is better than doing something wierd that ends up terrible.
I personally have thoroughly enjoyed season 2 so far. No problems what so ever.
ReplyDelete...well except for the rare animation mistake or two...they erk me sometimes but that's probably just me wanting the show to be 100% perfect which isn't very realistic...
Almost every time I watch a season 2 episode I don't like it. Then I realize I'm taking it too seriously. I watch it again and I find it wonderful. When I saw Mare-do-well I thought it was completely ridiculous. But then I realized that Rainbow Dash as a superhero is actually a really funny idea, the extremely artificial catastrophes were hilarious, and Mare-do-well had a really cool costume. It was very much a comedy centric episode and that's totally ok. It's balanced out by more serious episodes like Sisterhooves Social. And that variety makes this show great.
ReplyDeleterespect to fraust and all of the rest of the team both deep behind the sceenes so far in the back we dont know they even exist up to the execs and the voice actors and animators..everyone in the building working on the show we owe this new world to them...and even Hasbro even tho they need to figure out how to make proper show toys we even owe them for allowing this all to happen
ReplyDeletei thank them all for bringing us new ponys and quickly making the g3 hippos creepys a distant memory
Is that the reason people didn't like Mare-Do-Well? I thought it was the writing (that the rest of the Mane 6 didn't try talking to RD first) or that it was supposedly a repeat of Boast Busters (which it so wasn't). I never really saw any rage over it being Twilight/Pinkie/Applejack.
ReplyDeleteSeth is now best pony
ReplyDeleteNot that I've actually seen any rage over the identity of Mare-do-well, but I do agree that it really shouldn't happen. Considering how big the fanbase of MLP:FiM is, these things are inevitable at times.
ReplyDeleteVery well said, Seth. There's a reason why I don't get involved in those episode discussions.
ReplyDeleteI think it's easy to forget that the folks who make the show are actually human, and also aware of the things we say here at EqD. So... yeah. Cut them some slack. Remember, this is a kid's show--and for a kid's show, it's really abso-freaking-lutely fantastic. So enjoy it already. :D
ill say one last thing...
ReplyDeleteconstructive criticism is a great thing...but before you do it..watch the episode ATLEAST 3 times
The episode had flaws and I love to see people give criticism. Uh, I don't know about people who were angry because it wasn't Trixie or somethin'. Anyway! I wouldn't discourage pointing out flaws and talking about how it could have been better. The alternative is blindly loving every episode.
ReplyDeleteI hadn't thought to post about my gratitude until I read this little announcement, so in the very, very off-change an animator or someone working on the show sees this, I just wanted to say THANK YOU.
ReplyDeletePonies have made a huge impact on my life since Day 1. I was able to instantly pick up on the nature of the show and I really and truly have taken its messages to heart, and have made me a better person.
I bet its frustrating to see petty complaints about things that in the long run will be irrelevant, but keep in mind that these guys are a small (but vocal) minority. Most of us that actually really liked the episodes that sometimes get flak never get around to really expressing their delight.
So far you've done an excellent job on the show. More than that, really. Almost all of the episodes we've gotten in Season 2 have been home-runs in terms of quality, and sometimes that's easy to forget when we as a fandom get a little hinky over some specific details that happened in a couple of episodes that didn't fit out liking. Even though I don't think Mare-Do-Well's episode was the best one yet, it's still miles ahead in quality compared to other shows. So I say thank you again for making such an awesome show, and keep up the good work. I'm sure it's so much more difficult than most of us can imagine.
TL;DR - Some of the most vocal fans around really don't know the effort put in the show, and those that do are often lurking and not posting the praise the FiM team deserves. So thank you.
I mean "less than respectful of the hardworking team" Whaaa? Where did that come from?
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I can think of is that some commenters mentioned the new writer of Mare do well and criticised her.
I guess that might be crossing the line, specifically calling out a writer.
But I just don't like the general idea that to criticise the show is somehow disrespectful to the crew.
Happy 80 Million hits everypony!
ReplyDeleteTHANK YOU.
ReplyDelete*slow clap processor*
ReplyDeleteYeah, I'm getting tired of hearing fanons bitch and whine (sorry for my use of French). >:U
I agree with Seth 120%.
ReplyDeleteNormally I don't mess with blogs because they tend to be inane, but I have a small something to add:
ReplyDeleteIf indeed the creators are reading this, then I encourage you to remember that you always have the right to ignore the critics and do your own thing. It's YOUR show, not theirs, and never let anyone influence your work in ways you don't want it to be. I've learned over the years of being an artist myself that the only person's opinion that ever matters is YOURS.
- KL Sanchez
By the way 80million :]
ReplyDelete@Sethisto
ReplyDelete*slow clap*
Well said, good sir. Couldn't have put it better myself. :)
Beautifully worded, Seth. I'm not really a "regular" poster or anything, and I don't always look at comments, so I don't quite know what went down with Mare Do Well, but I really like the way you went at explaining this. Just... very well said. And people really should start cluing in about how this show isn't about the character we've created as a fandom. It's kind of ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteCongrats on 80 Million, by the way!
ReplyDeleteFuuu. I stayed awake an extra hour and a half to catch 80000000 and I got so caught up in reading comments that I missed it. You ponies sure do write a lot.
ReplyDeleteSo far I loved every single episode of season 2. I become fan of the series before I even knew about this community and memes that came from it. I think people that started watching mlp because they liked a meme can actually be disappointed, because the series is not so good because of memes, but because the creators of the show do excellent work. If you don't like the show you don't have to watch it and still be part of the community and read fanfics with characters you actually like that can't be in the series. But understand that this (season 2) is what most of us want and love, nobody is stopping you from disliking it but try keeping it to yourself.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, the hate going towards the episode was pretty rude/misguided, they're doing their best to entertain us free of charge.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Seth: some people have way too high expectations. "Mare-Do-Well" could have been better, but it was still a good episode.
ReplyDeleteI hope everyone has a good time, today, with more Rarity goodness.
And if anyone from the cast and crew reads this post, don't let the whiners discourage you. Listen to the critique that's well-founded and backed up with proper arguments. Everything else is just your regular internet drivel.
The post was a good Idea.
ReplyDeleteWhile pointing out flaws is something that the creators might apriciate, at least most of them do in my experience, complaiing that a show doesn't make fanon into canon is another thing.
Lets be greatfull for what we get, and btw. Mare do well was a real good episode. (in my opinion)
If you can't be polite and civil and literate in finding things to talk about in this show (whether they are things you approve of or not), where the bar is set so high by the excellent work that all the writers, animators and actors put into it, then please don't comment. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.
ReplyDelete@Flutterfan
ReplyDeleteHaving standards is fine. But I think the problem is when our expectations are set to unrealistic levels.
Personally, I make an effort to try *not* to imagine what the episode will be like before watching it. I think by going in without any preconceived expectations for an episode, it allows me to just sit back and take it in, laugh at the humor, and love every second of it.
That's not to say constructive critism is bad though. I just wish people would wait until they'd watched the episode a few times, thought about *why exactly* the episode didn't meet their expectations, and then determine whether it was truly a problem with the episode, or with their expectations. Of course there are times when the show does have flaws. But the vast majority of the time, these in no way detract from my pure enjoyment of the episode. In my opinion, many times the biggest flaw of an episode is it's moral, which sometimes seems to contradict what happened in the episode.
I didn't notice much rage over the lack of Trixie or Derpy, but I did definitely see some seriously re-goddamn-diculous whining about how after the last episode the show was "ruined" or how it had been turned into "cliched tripe". It was completely uncalled for and anyone who judges this show by such lofty standards needs to take a moment and gain a little perspective. Even though this show can be enjoyed by many ages, it is made first and foremost for children. If you can't accept that this means the storylines will sometimes be predictable, you might as well hand in your brony badge because you are in the wrong fandom.
ReplyDelete'Tis the sad fact of any fandom...eventually a few bad apples are gonna show up. TV Tropes doesn't have its "Fan Dumb" page without just cause, I'm sad to say. :[
ReplyDeleteHopefully these words of sanity and reason will stem that a bit, however.
I couldn't agree more. When I read all those comments of people hating on the episode simply because it didn't meet their headcanon, I could only facepalm non-stop.
ReplyDeleteGG, Seth.
Mare do well wasn't my favourite episode (I can't never decide though) but I would never hate on an episode becuase I didn't think it went the way I felt it should.
ReplyDeleteWell said, I can understand critism but some of the whining we had was just silly.
I personally will continue to just enjoy the episodes, I hope others can do the same and if they don't enjoy the episode? well then please be constructive about why and not just angry.
@dmtactical
ReplyDelete"Almost every time I watch a season 2 episode I don't like it. Then I realize I'm taking it too seriously."
I agree with your whole comment, but I snipped the initial bit here because I *especially* feel the same.
It's fine to watch the show with a critic's eye; this is a thing we love, so it's natural to want it to be the best it can be. But it's most important to remember that we are (still) not the target audience of this show. So while watching with your critic's eyes, make sure they're tuned for "quality children's television" and not "perfect all ages entertainment".
The idea that our fandom scared off the people who matter the most to us fills me with sadness. I only want to apologize to them for some choice few's over-reaction to a outlandish and unlikely preconception.
ReplyDeleteI never understood the whole "It's Derpy or Trixie!" stuff flying around before the episode, or the explosion that came after it.
ReplyDeleteFor the record, I did not like "Mare-Do-Well." I gave it a few tries, but overall it was a major disappointment. However, the Mare's identity was NOT one of the main reasons I disliked the episode. Rather, it was the weaker-than-usual writing and overly obnoxious delivery of the Friendship Lesson that killed it for me.
It was a poor episode for me, that's all. There have been worse episodes, however, and it was still leagues above most shows out there right now. So what if we got another "Look Before You Sleep" or "The Show Stoppers?" We've had a great opening two-parter, Princess Luna's official return, and a lot of other funny episodes so far this season. The animation has gotten better, the soundtrack and voice acting are still awesome, and the show is still very good.
I'm eager to see how the next episode goes. Rarity is probably one of the hardest ponies to write for, since it's so easy to make her into the fashion-obsessed, greedy libby she was for most of the first half of season one. Still, she has improved greatly over the last good while, and is quickly becoming one of my favorite ponies.
I was put off by the community only 2 weeks after finding the show. I came for the art left because of the community. (Still enjoy the show and watch it almost religiously.)
ReplyDeleteOh man we just broke 80,000,000.
ReplyDeleteI disliked Mare Do Well myself, but the identity of the culprit had nothing to do with it. In-fact I think that was one of the more clever aspects.
ReplyDeleteSoooooo
Seth right. We have to keep in mind that this show is meant for children not us. It's nice that we can enjoy it too, but the show's main objective is to entertain kids and to sell toys.
ReplyDeleteYou heard Seth. Wheaton's Law is in effect.
ReplyDeleteAs usual, we have something good, and the fandom ruins it. But yea, I understand the point of how because people get so involved with fan works that they start expecting the same from the designers, and then rage when it isn't what they wanted. People seem to forget that the designers have a different view of it then the fans. If they didn't, the series would be so so so very screwed up.
ReplyDeleteHappy 80,000,000 Everyone!
ReplyDeleteFree classy cola for all!
Dat new banner
ReplyDeleteI don't create whole 'fan' personalities surrounding characters barely seen in the show. That's what OCs are for!
ReplyDeleteMy name is Acheron, and I am the Outcast of Ire.
I think that its for the 80,000,000
ReplyDeleteTHANK YOU!
ReplyDeleteI'm so glad someone said something like this! I actually really enjoyed last week's episode, and it was just absolutely disheartening to see such a harsh reaction by fans. It made me terribly sad to see that people who worked on the show were avoiding us.
If one absolutely must criticize an episode, please keep it constructive
First, start off stating everything you liked about the show. It's surprising how many good things people can find even when it's a supposed "bad" episode. When you start off listing all the positives, it's easier to take the negatives. Also, even if you know know you enjoyed certain parts, no one else assumes this unless you expressly state what it was you enjoyed.
Next, mention things that could have been improved on, and why you felt that way. The "why" is a big part. It's too easy to dismiss someone as being finicky, picky, or arbitrary if one cannot back up their own point of view.
Lastly, suggest ways that it could have been handled differently.
THIS. Thank you. I can never figure out why so many so-called 'fans' throw a hissy fit when an episode doesn't go 100% their way. We're lucky the show caters to the fans as much as they DO.
ReplyDeleteThank you Seth, I never look at the comments on here on the episode pages anymore because they're always so hateful these days. You would think we actually disliked the show or something. :/
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI only didn't like the episode because it seemed a little too subpar for the season thus far. I had the mare do well's identity correct about halfway through the episode anyway. I didn't mind it but I guess it didn't exactly help that it wasn't written by Meghan McCarthy.
ReplyDeleteHuh, I really like the Mare Do Well episode as it felt like a pretty hardcore shout out to fans. I mean come on, how many times has the joke been made of the "The Batmare", the fact that the costume looked like an amazing homage to Darkwing Duck just made it even better.
ReplyDeleteI find it hard to believe people actually thought it was going to be Trixie or Derpy, how on earth did they come to that conclusion? It makes zero sense story wise. I mean come on guys, you're better than that.
Or maybe not since it seems the maturity levels have just been slowly dipping into the creepy furry territory since the start of season 2.
Great post Seth, although I feel bad that some people in this community basically need to be reminded that this is a children's show.
ReplyDeleteI'd also like to add that maybe it's not such a great idea to keep posting youtube accounts/facebook/twitter accounts of the staff unless they actually request it (I realize some of them have)? I can't imagine anyone appreciating suddenly having 4,000 bronies attached to their accounts.
oh thank god! please tell me this is the end of the hatestorm!
ReplyDeleteI actually enjoyed the last episode. People dis it? Wha???
ReplyDeleteIt wouldn't make any sense that Ditzy Doo or Trixie would be in the costume in the first place (Why would Trixie help RD anyway?). The point was that RD's friends was trying to teach RD a lesson - the hard way. Because you know RD's personality, she would not take it seriously if her friends just tell her that she is being boastful.
Really? ._. People are not paying attention of the main context of the story?
I was facepalming over how many people were complaining that last weeks episode was too predictable. Well hello! It's a kids show.
ReplyDeleteI say it's about time someone wrote a post like this, and I say this weeks episode is even more predictable. Cue complaining!
You're trying to stop the internet from bitching? Well, good luck with that.
ReplyDeleteAs for me, there hasn't been a single episode I haven't loved, and Mare-do-well is up there with my favourites. Looking forward to some Rarity this afternoon too!
Besides, I never got into the whole Trixie thing. She was cool, but has nothing on the mane characters, or even the CMCs for sheer awesomeness.
That was well spoken. I was really surprised how many people were disliking the new episode last week. Its ok not to like the episode, just don't start ranting about it.
ReplyDeleteWe should be happy for what we get, those that whined about the last episode fail to realise that every episode is a gift to us from the hard working team behind the show. Don't be a stuck-up kid at Christmas who cries about not getting the biggest present. We are grown ups. We should know to appreciate and enjoy the charity that these episodes really are.
ReplyDeleteWait, folks actually expected Trixie? I thought it was a running joke... :(
ReplyDeleteGot a pet theory about all this uncivility we've got goin' round the world. I don't wanna indict our entire culture or nothin', but there are folks who think it's a virtue to always speak their mind, and think themselves plainspoken rather than rude. Might be that this stems from the whole anti-politcally-correct movement; when ya can feel smugly self-righteous while airing out your id, it can be hard to see any reason to temper your words. /shrug I could well be wrong; this ain't much more'n a hunch. Still. Something to think about, I guess.
Funny thing is that I still see this site as being pretty well insulated from that stuff. Sure, we've got our share of "hissy fits" and the like, but you lot seem to be pretty good at calming down and being reasonable. :)
@Matoro
ReplyDeleteIn actuality, the reaction to Mare-Do-Well's identity was mild at best. What most people complained about seemed to be the writing and characterization of the episode. And really, you put it best: they tried to teach her "the hard way." They never even TRIED the easy way, just talking to her first.
That being said, I still loved the episode, but it was more for the animation and the jokes, plus a new kick-ass character to play around with, and not the overall story, which I felt was kind of weak.
Well, I see where Seth is coming from, but given the amount of time I spend on Bioware Social Network I'm already used to this kind of reaction. If you think that response to "Mare Do Well" was negative, try reading a few threads there for perspective, even though it is a Bioware sponsored site, if you didn't know better you would think that everyone there hates all their games. A lot of comments were pretty rude, but I'm sure that the folks at Studio B aren't going to start second guessing themselves because a couple of 45*45 avatars are spouting text complaining that the episode didn't end the way they predicted. While the toxic nature of the comments did seem very un-brony, I'm sure that the Studio B/Topdraw people understand that that we really do love the show, and if we didn't care we wouldn't react so strongly. The anonymity provided by the internet can just draw out the petty and selfish side in any of us, and if any of them were reading the EQD reactions to the episode, they’d already know enough about what the internet does to the conscience to take this with a grain of salt.
ReplyDeleteOkay, I think we can generally agree that this entire subculture would not exist if it were not for the staff and creative team behind it.
ReplyDeleteHowever, the goodwill the show's staff has created does not make anything they produce immune from criticism, as long as it's constructive. Believe me I wouldn't take the time to criticize a show unless I really liked it. I follow this show not because I think it's great for a kid's show, but because I think it's really entertaining, period. The Singing in the Rain comparison in the A.V. Club review is apt, it is a show that relentlessly overcomes skepticism with joy.
I think last week was the first time I actually criticized an episode here. I didn't think it was awful, and I didn't have a problem with the reveal (actually I'm not sure that that was mentioned much by commenters at all), it was other aspects of the writing that I felt undermined it. So, yes, I felt it was worth pointing out it was a new writer, the first who had not worked under Lauren Faust to the completion of an episode. I don't think that constitutes a personal attack on the writer, whose name I didn't even mention.
The show's writing in general got better progressively as the writing team hit their stride a bit so I suppose it might be expected that a new writer's first episode isn't their strongest.
Anyway hopefully tomorrow's/this morning's episode is really great.
The identity of Mare-Do-Well wasn't the issue for me. It was just that the whole episode wasn't really that good overall, and I wrote down what was my issues with it on my blog: http://gamesalvage.tumblr.com/post/13401916107/random-thought-post-1
ReplyDeleteI actually adore the team behind the show for the fact that they can do something completely different than just a stupid fan service for fans, since hey, it's their show and not yours, and that's what makes it great (most of the time).
Mare-do-well was an excellent episode! Kept me guessing till the very end.
ReplyDeleteSome of the rage about the Mare do Well not being Trixie or Derpy was just silly, but as for constructive criticism, they could choose to take it in the spirit of FLuttershy.
ReplyDeleteDiscord: Yes... Well, surely it burns you up... I mean, that they're always pointing out your flaws, right?
Fluttershy: Not really. In fact, I think I'm awfully lucky to have friends who want me to be the best I can be.
I completely agree with this post. regardless of the quality of the episode in question. We shouldn't rage against the hand that feeds us (awesome ponies).
ReplyDeletejeez, you people type a lot. <_<
ReplyDeletethat recent sad fic ruined Mare Do Well for me, i think. i'll have to rewatch it some day.
Well said, Seth. I was a little disappointed by the comments last week as well. It's one thing to not like an episode of an otherwise great show. It's another thing entirely to point to that episode and say that the show is doomed to ruin because of it.
ReplyDeleteI, for one, liked Mare-Do-Well, overall. It had its parts that made me groan (particularly the lesson scene), but the humor and characters were still great as always. Those that point to random facts that were, in fact, necessary to the plot of the episode itself as overwhelming inconsistencies to the rest of the series (the sudden influx of dangerous situations, pretty much), are reading way too much into a single episode of what is, for the most part, a non-linear show. In fact, I was really pleased that they finally brought back Pinkie-Sense, as that's a rather major ability for a pony (particularly an Earth pony) to have.
TL;DR: Never forget that, while you're watching one of the best kid's shows ever made, it's still a kid's show. Not everything will mesh perfectly. As Seth said, just sit back and enjoy the awesome.
@Flutterfan
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree people can voice constructive comments, all too often that's not what's happening. Most of the time it's just "Terrible Episode" or "Worse Episode yet" or something similar. That's not constructive.
Especially since people did complain about Mare Do Well's ID. They didn't complain that it wasn't Trixie or Derpy (at least not that I saw) but they did complain constantly that it was "too predictable." (which it almost had to be, I mean the way the episode worked, it couldn't not be the main six).
Anyway, long story short, people can critique but recently that's not what is happening, it's just been blanket negative statements.
I've not commented much on the show itself, mostly the fan content, but I'll pitch in my $0.02...
ReplyDeleteLove the whole thing. It gets silly and it gets serious, it touches on both light-hearted and somewhat emotional topics at times. Honestly, there aren't any episodes that "stand out" as bad to me (even ones like "look before you sleep" which I couldn't really relate to obviously - but even that was well-executed I think and I did still enjoy it) and some episodes really push the envelope on what is "child friendly" (I'm almost certain some kids had nightmares after "Lesson Zero") which really appeals to everyone.
Honestly my only real complaint in the show is a poorly-nailed-down Tech level... I mean in one show we see candles and lanterns, another we see a steampunk polygraph machine, and then in the Mare-do-well we see a hydro-electric dam and a construction crew with modern equipment...
The fans need to realize something VERY VERY VERY important here: while the show can give us some minor nods here and there (like derpy aka ditzy being... well... derpy) they have to AVOID a lot of specifics the fans come up with because of copyright issues. For instance: as much as we ALL want to see an official version of On A Cross And An Arrow, Hasbro cant do that because unless the original author GIVES them the copyright, the best they could hope for is co-ownership, and even that would be shaky in court if it were pursued... Likewise they presumably had to take a different direction with Luna, and don't expect any fannon-shipping to really happen (even "acceptable" heterosexual shipping like Twilight and Big Mac) for the same reasons (I'm even concerned if we do much shipping with the OBVIOUS cannon hints of Soarin & Dash that it will be stopped for this reason)
Yes, we all want to see character X return, great, and that *IS* something Hasbro can do (I'm honestly surprised they've not at least thrown Trixie into the background somewhere, the fans seem to be swarming over her character) but Otherwise there is VERY LITTLE they can do legally... And any major additions (ala Trixie) will be a LONG time in coming --- remember Season 2 is only 1/3 done or so and they're already working on Season 3, so any changes we DO influence wont show up till next season)
All I'm saying is to keep in mind our input into the show is minuscule. We have no real voice creatively, be glad when they DO throw us a bone and don't have a fit when they HAVE to take other directions.
Lastly, remember we are a fluke. Hasbro never expected to garner any fans except young girls and some casual mothers/sisters who thought the characters were cute. The fact that the bronies exist proves Lauren Faust is a great producer, but she still has to aim the show at children. This is NOT a mature series (even if there is some subtext hidden here or there...) expect the plot to stay as simple as possible to keep the kiddies interested (They could easily have made the premiers into entire seasons, but it would be almost impossible to keep young kids interested that long and a lot of them would lose track of the plot and get bored or frustrated) If for some reason the show splinters into a "kids" series and a "mature" series, then we can complain about the plot, but unless that happens, we're just not as important to Hasbro as the little kids.
Tl;Dr:
It's a kids show to sell toys and most non-studio ideas risk legal battles, so dont expect cannon and fannon to be even remotely close and enjoy when the creators actually DO include something small like Derpy/Ditzy in the background for us older fans and DONT expect any large changes.
I really hope this is aimed more at the "RAGE!!!!!" comments rather than at the people pointing out what they didn't like about the episode.
ReplyDeleteI didn't see any of the actual posts myself, but I think I can still agree with Seth. If people don't like some specific aspect of the show, there are ways to show it respectfully. I didn't really like the episode but that was mostly because RD is my least favourite pony, it had nothing to do with missing Trixie. Doesn't mean I hate the episode, just wasn't one of the best.
ReplyDeleteOh, and about Trixie, I seriously doubt we even see her again, no matter how awesome content fans have done. And even if she did return, there would be angry and/or disappointed fans because she wasn't like they thought.
TL;DR Why so serious, it's just a cartoon? :D
Um...hello? To everyone who keeps saying that "They should listen to criticism" and "Other communities about [game or show here] are so much worse"...that's different.
ReplyDeleteMy Little Pony is written for children. Yes, they produce better quality episodes than most shows for children. Yes, a giant, awesome brony community emerged. But they never asked for us. They never set out to create this fandom; they never intended to have all their episodes picked apart (and, yes, unfairly compared to fan-created works or expected to use fan-favorite minor characters, which I did see a lot of in the last episode post).
Seth said that the behavior in the last few episode posts made the production team like us less as a community. I don't think we want that at all. So, is it really too much to not act entitled and to remember we're blessed to have such a show?
Much love for this community, but some of the comments here defending that behavior really rub me the wrong way.
whiners gonna whine. Show's awesome, it even changed my life for the better. That's all I can say.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I could not have been happier with the identity of Mare-do-Well. It was without a doubt the single best way to handle it, and I'm certain the production crew understands that as well. I absolutely without a doubt love the show. I'm only now starting to read fan fic and I'm super enthusiastic about comics and the drawfriend stuff and positively foaming at the mouth over music by such awesome artists as PinkiePieSwear and the other numerous devoted fans out there. But for certain--for me--the show comes first. Canon, THEN fanon, although both are great.
ReplyDeleteUm, people who disliked the last episode are every bit a part of the community as those who did enjoy it. The vibe I get from this is that only "True Believers" are wanted commenting here, and critical comments are to be dismissed as "disrespectful".
ReplyDeleteMost of what I saw people commenting about had little at all to do with being upset about their favorite fan pick for Mare-do-Well, and using that to represent the overall sentiment of those who disliked the last episode is quite a bit unfair I think, and the most charitable thing it could say is that you didn't care enough to actually read what was being said.
I very much enjoy this show and consider myself a brony. Am I not permitted to express and explain my disappointment with an episode? Or is that only when many others are as well?
I'd get it if what was going on last week really WAS a bunch of fans angry that Trixie wasn't Mare-do-Well, but that's not what I was seeing. I might be mistaken, of course, and in all honesty I'd prefer it if I was--because this post would be much less creepy and more understandable in that context.
I mean, if I'm supposed to keep my dissatisfaction quiet here, well, whatever I guess--its not my webpage, not my rules. If that is the case though, it does take this a step away from an open community and a step closer to a cultish one.
I absolutely believe that we, as good people, should be respectful of the show's creators--but asking us to guard their pride if we are disappointed seems a little silly. Moreover, it seems disrespectful itself--the show's creators are adults and professionals whom I think we owe the expectation of being emotionally mature enough to handle a less than perfect reception for a few episodes, especially from a group of people outside the show's target demographic.
I've seen some bronies say things like "the show is going downhill!" and all, which seems silly to me honestly, but I would hope that the creators of the show would appreciate knowing that some people feel this way, on the chance they might learn ways to make the show better.
@bestpony
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying that this behavior is desirable, I'm just trying to keep it in perspective.
Constructive criticism is good and all that, even I have to agree that the writing last week was a little weak compared to the others, justified since the writer is new.
ReplyDeletebut the "WORSE EPISODE YET" "SEASON 2 SUCKS" "MLP:FIM IS NOW DEAD" "MLP: FIM LOST IT'S MAGIC" comments are just facehoof worthy.
I didn't read through all of the last episode's discussion thread, or close to it, but from what I saw I think most of the criticism it got was legit constructive (and again I don't think the reveal was the reason people had issues with it). I remember seeing one or two people who were just being completely stupid with the sort of criticism they were giving and they got completely called out on it but that was the exception.
ReplyDeleteGenerally, there is about as much love and tolerance on this site as I've ever seen on a fansite for anything, which is all the more remarkable given its size. Sethisto has done a tremendous job with EqD (although I'm sort of curious if Phoe ever got released from the penalty room after her hostile takeover).
Um well since i never really bother with reading comments on Equestria Daily i don't really know what happened but that episode was nice wasn't the best but nice i appreciate some of the fandom but i mostly enjoy the show more than the fandom thats just my personal opinion.
ReplyDeleteI am a bit shocked at the people being so overly critical about a certain episode just because they didn't get to see their favorite pony get put in, like Seth said it isn't about the background ponies it's about the Mane 6 yes Derpy/Ditzy is a good background pony but her character hasn't been established except by the brony community same with all the other background ponies.
ReplyDeleteLike Ashton said we don't have a say in the matter of who or what gets put into the show I for one appreciate the efforts that this crew is putting in because it's their gift to us, I can relate to some of the episodes (Like Sister hooves social) that one was a tear jerker for me because I have sisters and it made me remember all the things me and my sisters did be it arguing or playing together, but honestly people we need to be grateful that they have given us a second and third season and I have enjoyed every single episode thus far and they haven't given me a reason to say anything bad about it.
Even if an episode has things I do not agree with, I still watch MLP because overall I enjoy it and the community. Do not get lost in the flame wars. We as the brony community love and tolerate all things pony. If you do not like an episode, just pass on it and move on to the next. At some point you will find the ep that goes well for you. I for one even though I found Mare Do Well ep to be obnoxious and at times have a few things in it that make you go wtf, knew that if the ep does not do well the brony community will easily pump out content involving the episodes that are easily enjoyable. Also pertaining to what I said about passing on an ep for a better one, I can not wait to see another Fluttershy centric episode. Keep up the good work Studio-B, you can not win them all.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.equestriadaily.com/2011/11/season-2-episode-8-mysterious-mare-do.html
ReplyDeletePlease read the actual comments. I think everyone is imagining them as much worse then they actually were. You'd think we were all calling for Jayson Thiessen to be fired or something.
I quickly scanned over them. One person said "Well that was s**t" which was totally out of line and another person said "the series was dead" because of the episode. Besides those two commenters I didn't see anything that bad.
I love the show but it shouldn't be immune from criticism. I don't think the writers or animators owe me anything, I just hold them to the same standard that they demonstrated in season 1.
thank you. for being a good page leader.
ReplyDeleteI found the Mare Do Well episode funny and enjoyable.
ReplyDeleteTrue, it wasn't one of the best, but some reactions to it, were a little overboard. Complaining because Mare Do Well, was not your favorite pony, is just silly.
As a little critisism I would say the writting was not as good as usual. First time the show gets that much predictable, in general.
While we can show our opinions I totally agree with Seth here. And Trixie/Derpy was lot more joke than some could take.
ReplyDeleteFandoms can trend to get a lil full of themselves, more or less expecting silly things that only estrange social cliques in high school used to do and say but we look back now and go... yeah...
ReplyDeleteBut! It's real easy to get caught up in it. Creeps right in but eh, read your posts again, watch it again. Try to just view it with a clear mind.
Personally, I enjoyed Mare Do Well a lot and I even had it spoiled for me completely by accident by a lil kid at a grocery store. Heh. It had references, a fun feel to it, and I liked the costume for the 'hero' a lot. If you separate it from everything you 'wanted it to be' and take it for what it is. Still very fun.
One simple rule that usually helps keep you in check is: All things fandom exist to be shattered. No matter how awesome your fannon might be, and honestly some fannon is pretty darn awesome, it is not theirs and every single episode, book, comic, or web posting has the potential to annihilate it. Fannon fun, is just that, fun. It's flexing that imagination section of your brain. Still creates a lot of fun things, and even if the fannon is soured by the canon, if its your fave just keep running with it. I know several stories right now that were completely up ended by season 2 already from Discord, Luna, and far more but eh, they truck along happy anyways with their imaging of the world.
Though, some just need to come down off their hobby horse. In the end, if you raise your expectations so high that you'll only dine at five star restraunts you're gonna miss a lot of tasty mom and pop joints that make the best random item in the world. For me, that's why there isn't a bad episode of MLP:FIM. I don't hate any character, or episode. They might not be a super favorite, but I don't dislike a character. From villains, to main, and supporting characters it's just fun. I mean, even Rarity comes down to the mud now and then~
Yeah, I don't know about the massive reaction. The worst I could say about last episode is that the writing went a bit hamhanded and went way over the top on making Dash look out of line, but it was a new writer's first credit on the series.
ReplyDeleteOne whose previous work is mostly Spongebob, a show not noted for subtle nuances.
Criticizing the creators of the show is perfectly fine, people are free to do what they wish. The creators are mature adults and are more than capable of taking criticism, not dishing out any just leads to stagnation, since no negativity doesn't allow for recognition of faults.
ReplyDeleteThat said, if some people really are bitching about something stupid like MMDW not being stupid Trixie or Derpy, that really should be looked down upon, as not pandering to the fans is one of the best things creatively the show creators could do.
@Flutterfan
ReplyDeleteI agree every show has its horrible episodes. AVATAR the Last Air Bender had, The Great Divide, AVATAR Day, The Painted lady and so on. And it was arguable one of the best cartoons ever.
I won't hold back my opinion just because it hurts a few feelings. I have to the right to critique an episode, I don't like.
Even those people who said the series is going down hill. Have a right to express that opinion. I saw a lot of negativity but nothing I felt was outright hateful.
I'm sick of us using the love and tolerate thing to make sure no one can have an opinion that is not 100% positive.
I'm a fan not a shill. I might always be happy where the show is going and that is fine. I'm rather tired of the need to stifle anything unpleasant in this fandom.
Three cheers for Sethisto! This has also been bugging me lately, and I'm glad someone of such prominence in the Brony community has given voice to the issue. I personally enjoy every episode, some more than others but such is life. Not everything can be THE BEST or else it loses all context.
ReplyDeleteThose Bronies who can't manage to look past their own bias would do well to keep their neigh-saying to themselves; at the very least phrase it as constructive criticism.
that being said, Super Excited for the next epi-TWILIGHT SPARKLE
@Flutterfan
ReplyDeleteI was the comments right after the episode, and people were being quite rude about the state of the show and the quality of the episode. I most definitely agree that the show isn't above criticism, and we should be allowed to voice our opinions. But in the end, this isn't LOST or a show where the producers went into this thinking they'd be harshly criticized by a fandom outside their demographic, and I think people should remember that. The main problem with those comments, at least that I had, was their lack of respect. There's constructive criticism, pessimistic criticism, blanket-statement criticism... there are many ways to state our opinions about the show, and many people didn't choose constructive criticism.
So many comments already. lol
ReplyDeleteThat's what I've been trying to tell people. Here and other places. Unfortunately, no one listen's to lowly Octavia here. But that's whatever. So far the second season has excelled with my expectations. Then again, like some have stated. I don't set my expectations exceedingly high. So there's not nearly as much chance of mine being dashed or me feeling disappointed. I've been pleasantly pleased so far and doubt I'll be disappointed anytime soon judging by how the least episodes have been. I like season 2 more than the first so far. I don't mind people offering constructive criticism and such. That's perfectly understandable and allowable I think. But you shouldn't just outright start complaining that the show is awful, going downhill, etc etc. Also keep in mind even though this season does have a larger budget, it's still a smaller children's show compared to many others out there. So there are limits to what can be done. Especially with short time limits. But I personally think the show definitely excels for what there is to work with. I've really got no major complaints thus far honestly.
So yes, just try and keep in mind this is a kids show primarily made to market a toy line. It's not going to be perfect in every way imaginable. But I think most here can agree it's certainly a good show. Why would you be here otherwise? lol
Anyway, only several hours to go! Let's rev up our engines and get excited for more awesome ponies. :)
really?
ReplyDelete@Shaun Hegney
ReplyDeleteNothing outright hateful? Did you not see the person saying that Dash should just kill herself? It's on one of the last pages but it's there.
This is what happens when the fan base begins to love the fanon more than the show itself.
ReplyDelete@Sovietbrony
ReplyDelete"I mean, if I'm supposed to keep my dissatisfaction quiet here"
I think you should think more about what is good about it, and not let the negative be your default talking point.
Like I said in my previous post: A lot of people behave like kids who cry about not getting the biggest present on Christmas. We forget to be happy for what we get, and become selfish, undesirable and irritable people that the majority distance themselves from.
We are better than that. We are adults, after all. We shouldn't take everything so seriously.
Friendship is Magic is like apple pie. We should be grateful that we get any apple pie at all!
I hate to say this, but I kind of disagree. With the whole pretext of "It was just a few bad apples, lets just give a wag of the finger" reaction. I wish that the outcry in the fandom could be quelled by this, but the sad truth is the internet doesn't work that way.
ReplyDeleteNow granted, I'm not saying that the behavior that followed this breach in head canon was right or even warranted. People over reacted. Feelings were hurt. But the internet is a place where one can get away with saying whatever without much fear of retribution and it is for that we act like this. And it'll happen again. Some silly little inconsistency that will drive us up a wall and say something we probably know is wrong. Probably again after that, too, all for the simple fact that we make mistakes. So I can't ask that the few "bad apples" stop and rethink their actions.
What I can say is, know that behind every username is a person, not just a name. And before saying anything, just like you would in real life, think it over calmly and then consider the people you are addressing.
TL;DR: Treat others as you would yourself. Even online.
Well said.
ReplyDelete>.< I think some ponies are missing the point of this post.
ReplyDeleteWait, people didn't like the episode? This stuff is happening? Kehe, good thing I don't pay attention to the sillehs.
ReplyDeletePersonally I think that the silly comments on previous episodes are getting a lot more attention than they deserve. No matter how well the fandom orchestrates it's platform of love and tolerance, it still isn't going to be able to hold back the tide of hysterical overreactions that show up everywhere else on the internet. We'd be better off just ignoring them.
ReplyDelete@Gozer the Equestrian Well said, while the Bronies may need to chill out over the episodes the same could be said of the show writers getting worked up over trolls. There will always be some trolls on any forum, they tend to dissappear when ignored.
ReplyDelete@Everyone says they have the right to critique!
ReplyDeleteOf course you do! You just managed to miss the point by a long shot. There is a right way and a wrong way to go about critiquing something. Especially if you actually want to be constructive and hope your words will help more than just come off as whining. The difference between civility and being a jerk and a chunk of comments were unrealistic, crude to the point of being mean, and generally unhelpful.
To which you still have the right to do, but the point was never that you can't dislike something. Rather, it was don't be a jerk, pretty please?
I don't get all the hype about mare-do well in the first place.
ReplyDeletePart of this is the Ring of Gyges that the internet supplies. Also, people just need to calm down. I didn't care for last episode, but I didn't go crazy.
ReplyDeleteThe show has to be its own thing. We are fans of the show, not the other way around.
As our community grows, we gain more and more types of people with different personalities. Unfortunately that means that we do attract some serious jerks now and again. The best thing for us real and true lovers of the show to do is recognize these people for what they are and not get sucked into the negativity.
ReplyDeletethanks seth, im glad you addressed this emerging concern. because it is something to concerned about. these doom cryers saying the show is only going down hill are not always productive, helpful, or contributive to the community or the show.
ReplyDeleteguys seriously, enjoy the show. if you don't like it, try watching it a couple more times, with the mindset that SEASON 2 is what LAUREN FAUST ORIGINALLY wanted the SHOW TO BE LIKE.
Its what she wanted. And i have plenty of faith in faust. and i have plenty of faith in this show. Personally I have enjoyed season 2. So far, the new episodes deffinently top most of season 1, due to more "edgy" diolague, WAY better animation, new story lines, and a finer attention to detail than season 1.
Thank you so much, DMX/Studio B, the hub, hasbro, and all of the My LIttle Pony Friendship is Magic team. You guys are doing an excellent job, and I can't wait to see what you do next.
Thank you for posting this Seth I think this was very much needed
ReplyDeleteSo it was written by a new writer. Get over it, let them find their stride, it was a very good first try. But complaining about predictability in a children's cartoon is like complaining about the sun being too bright at times. I'm struggling to think of any general instance in the series where the outcome of a situation wasn't predictable. Mare-Do-Well, I think, did not have any problems with predictability, because clues were intentionally given throughout the episode to make young viewers feel clever for suspecting the outcome. Also, the "They never tried the easy, soft way" criticism I think misses the mark, since there were a few scenes where ponies were expressing their discontent with RD's showboating and she completely didn't catch on to any of it, because she didn't want to. Outright showing her up at her own game was the only way to beat it through that thick head of hers.
ReplyDeleteAnd yeah, every episode this season I've watched once and was like "huh", then I went off and did something else and came back to watch it again and I was like "That was more awesome than the first time I watched it." There's just so much to take in in each of these episodes, and it's incredible how much they manage to pack in to 22 minutes, despite sometimes having to cut scenes that would otherwise better reinforce the episode's plot (feels like Mare Do Well is missing at least a couple of opportunities, but considering both programming and development time constraints, I don't blame them for not going into some things as far as they otherwise might have, especially since all but our own little fringe demographic likely wouldn't miss it all that much).
I just had to add something else here after reading the recent posts (yes I know I had a wall of text up there, kudos to probably the 3 of you that read any of it)
ReplyDeleteI do agree that dissatisfaction should be voice, but CONSTRUCTIVELY And keeping in mind that this is a kids series that by luck appeals to everyone (not saying Faust isn't amazing for this, but remember the AIM is only to interest kids)
We could all go on about things like the animation style, the pacing, etc, and while these are legitimate concerns they are out of scope of the series. If you have a legitimate complaint, by all means it should be voiced, but the trolling "this sux all iz lost nao!" should be dropped (though as others said I've seen very little of it here on ED)
There is plenty room for improvement, and yes, the creators SHOULD take legitimate concerns in stride and try to improve, likewise we should realize what the scope of the series is and not try to look beyond it (and keep in mind, as someone said above, this is not LOST - they did not go into this trying to think of every single tiny detail) This is an episodic cartoon aimed at kids, inconsistency is expected. We should be glad that all episodes don't end with a big red reset button (I'm honestly shocked how practically EVERY SINGLE EPISODE has some call-back to an earlier one, whether major or minor)
By all means we SHOULD provide feedback and the team should take it as a means to improve the show, just keep it all in context and try not to fall into trolling.
Also, if you like the fannon, then by all means follow it! Just don't get your proverbial panties in a twist because the show took a different direction...
And truth has been spoken.
ReplyDeleteThe problem this fandom has is simple : It happened unexpectedly, is very young, and is moving very fast. It's a good thing of course, but there's only so much Pony in a week, so people write stories, make music and art etc... It's great. But it's true that we shouldn't let this influence our view of the show. I like some episodes more than others, but I can never say any of them are "bad" or "worse" than any other. Any new episode is a blessing in and of itself.
Having been a long standing member of the Touhou fandom, which is by far the biggest and most active fandom on earth, I can attest that these unrespectful comments will never stop, they will only grow, but at the same time, so will the number of people who actively enjoy the show for what it is, thus hiding the tree in the forest. As much as i'd like the Brony community to be more respectful sometimes, the production team should also keep in mind that no fandom has ever been 100% supportive or clean, and FiM will be no exception. So don't feel down because a few internet loudmouthed people aren't satisfied, and remember all the positive comments and love that remain.
And as with every episode that has been released so far, I will thoroughly enjoy it, and wonder in expectation "what will they have my favorite characters do next ?" instead of begging and whining about what I want to see them do.
Sadly, when it comes to fandoms the very loud very vocal VERY MUCH MINORITY oversteps it's bounds and makes the majority of people look bad.
ReplyDeleteIf anyone who works on the show is reading this (and I hope they are since this thread is aimed at them as much as the fanbase, so they can see our good side) please be aware that the majority of us are with you and enjoying the show as it's made and we're glad you aren't turning this into a show run by the fans... as going by their fanfics, they'd totally ruin it.
I believe the reactions to Mare-Do-Well were not as bad as everyone believes. Certainly, there were all caps one-liners that really amounted to nothing but rage, but this is the internet, and there will always be ragers.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I did not like Mare-Do-Well for the simple fact that it portrayed RD as an unintelligent mule. She's always been a bit of a show off, but never, EVER to the extent Mare-Do-Well portrayed her as. An excellent example is in Sonic Rainbooom, possibly RD's finest hour, where she saved Rarity and the Wonderbolts much as she would have saved a pony in Mare-Do-Well. Despite receiving what was possibly MORE praise by being named Best Young Flier, RD did not let her ego run wild. In Mare-Do-Well however, RD is reduced to an overly-egotistical annoyance that is desperate for attention and praise.Despite RD learning her lesson in the end, the episode's plot was based around a radical personality shift, and that left a bad taste in mine and several local Bronies' mouths.
Children and Bronies alike that hold Rainbow Dash in high regard (which is quite a few, as she's very popular) couldn't help but be off-put by such a radical character change, especially one so negative. I don't want to come off as rude, but it was a definite writing mistake. A mistake that needs to be learned from by the team if they are to avoid further disappointments...
TL;DR The Rainbow Dash from Mare-Do-Well is NOT the Rainbow Dash from Season 1, and if such character changes continue, we will very soon not be watching the same show we've grown to love.
@Koji
ReplyDelete"please be aware that the majority of us are with you and enjoying the show as it's made and we're glad you aren't turning this into a show run by the fans... as going by their fanfics, they'd totally ruin it. "
Oh, how I support this point of view ! I read fanfic and love it, but I don't want any of it in the show. You sir, completed my precedent comment.
@Voronoi
ReplyDeleteI think "you should think more about what is good about it, and not let the negative be your default talking point." is quite a presumptuous statement to make. I try, as an adult, not to do psychological analysis of others on the basis of a comment left on a blog.
We are part of a fan community, we presumably get together to talk about this fandom. We won't be in agreement all the time, and many people will have many criticisms about many things.
I think the equivocation you make between criticism and selfishness is interesting as you express your criticism of others. I would not say that in this you are selfishly trying to maintain the community in a form you desire it to be by asking others not to say things you don't like, but I wonder if you would consider that following your own recommendation to me, that you might not have bothered replying to me at all?
I mean, why not express the things you liked about my post?
A much needed post. Well done Seth.
ReplyDeleteThere hasn't been a single episode I haven't thoroughly enjoyed. The amount of care that goes into each one is phenomenal. I was ashamed to read some of the comments about the last two episodes.
ReplyDeleteEspecially the MANY along the lines of 'its rainbow dash centric which constitutes a bad episode'. Seriously guys, grow up!
Since most of are adults, there's no excuse for such massively childish behaviour.
/rant
Supporting Koji's comment and the original post wholeheartedly. I hope someone (preferably more than one) on the MLP:FiM team sees this feedback.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, why would anybody whine about the show not being EXACTLY what you imagine? The creators can't just take all of the fan-made MLP world and connect it with the actual show. That would be just... uncorrect.
ReplyDeleteYou can't change people's opinions, with a fanbase as big as this one, you're bound to have some backlash. Heck, you'd have to not be on your game to not see this one coming. The quality of the fan work has rightfully surpassed its source material, and people are going to have to take sides on whether the original show was really worth the hype it created, and stick with it or leave it accordingly.
ReplyDeleteAbout the recent work's quality, they've stepped down their game a little, no reason to put blame where it doesn't belong. Yet, it's natural for it to happen, I'm sure it'll see brighter days.
We're no different from what the Sonic community was, with the exception that more people are making noise.
Source material sets the groundwork for an outstanding and superior community. With a quality restricted show like My Little Pony, the glue that holds this fandom is not really the show, but what we make of and from it.
It had to be said
ReplyDeleteLast week was the first time I felt embarrassed to be in this community
I don't usually read the comments of posts but this is a pretty important thing
ReplyDeleteIt saddens me that this post has to be made but honestly i'm not surprised since with nearly every online community some peoples expectations are completely unreasonable or just plain stupid.
I think you can have legitimate complaints and should be allowed to post them if you really feel it's needed, but posting with some tact and respect should not be too much to ask
Very well said, Seth. So far I've enjoyed every episode because I take it as it is; a high quality, wonderfully inhabited world of characters that we get to see and enjoy every week. The creators and showrunners have done such a marvelous job, they deserve our kudos, not our complaints.
ReplyDeleteJust to add, when I say complaints, I mean nitpicking and obsessive complaints. Genuine complaints would never be an issue.
ReplyDelete>>milleniummaster18 said...
ReplyDelete>>We're no different from what the Sonic community was
I am _SO_ glad someone else sees this! I've been drawing parallels since I (recently) joined the Herd and though I was just crazy! lol (seriously the brony fandom has almost exactly filled the hole left from the (imo) dead Sonic fandom.
Thank you Seth, for opening the eyes of our constant-whining bronies.
ReplyDelete*clap, clap, clap*
Thanks Seth ^_^
ReplyDelete@ZoundsForsook
ReplyDeleteFrankly, there's no one who should be able to tell us what we can or can't complain about. That's part of the experience of being in a fandom.
You can try rationalizing your disagreements against what I've said, and I'll probably agree with you... but the wording of the original message comes across as trying to enforce simply one way of thinking onto everyone else, as if it were basic and others were deviant.
This is a fandom, people need to understand that above and beyond everything else. It is created on our opinions of a shared interest, and from those opinions minds join together to share thoughts and creative imagination, shaping worlds and personalities from quite literally nothing.
Certainly, you should appreciate everything the staff is doing for us, simply by continuing the series and their nods to us, something only we of the fandom would catch. Moreso, we should appreciate that they actually do sit in to talk to us from time to time instead of only viewing us as potential piggy banks like the staff behind the series of every other fandom I've been in.
At the same time, preconceptions and expectations and above all else; whimsical hopes, are what enrich and build a fandom, and when they aren't met - part of the experience is sharing how reality overcame what you were secretly hoping for. Should this be done with some modicum of good sense and sanity? Of course.
But at the same time, the most important part to remember is that in a fandom, fanon trumps canon. We have bronies who believe fanon is either ridiculous simply for what it is, or even some sort of unholy transgression. But if there was only canon, what would the point of bronies be? "Hey, did you see Rarity" 'Yeah man, that was great, since you know, we watched the same thing.' ... And that's the end of that conversation and all others like it.
Rather than bronies running around acting crazed that canon is being 'tainted' or that fanon is growing too prevalent, preventing the opposite from happening is what leads to a healthy fandom. We need to support the show and the staff as much as we can, but never sacrifice the important bits both generous and selfish that create what we each bring to the table, even if it's just pointless bellyaching.
Much like the others who have posted here I have enjoyed every single episode through and through but it was bound to happen where some people get over dramatic because this show isn't exactly as how they imagined it. You've got to remember that this show is also made for kids and having all of the fancharacters like Ditzy Doo or Trixie pop up in the most unexpected situations is funny and awesome for us but it just wouldn't make sense to those who have no idea of the Brony/Pegasister community. The people behind FIM's job is to make an amazing show which they have gone above and beyond to make happen.
ReplyDeleteCan they please everyone? No. But who can? I'll always love the show for what it is as well as all of the fan created...stuff for lack of a better phrase. Well said Seth.
The fans area already being catered to too much. We see the same background ponies recycled over and over in S2; it used to be fun to catch and name background ponies in S1, but Hasbro has taken that away from us. Even Derpy/Ditzy is in pretty much every episode now, so it's not even special anymore.
ReplyDeleteI think, contrary to what everyone else probably think, that Hasbro needs to ignore its fans a little more. How can we remain a fandom if Hasbro cannonizes everything? Just look how split the community became over silly names like "Heartstrings" and "Golden Harvest."
Every time I see "think of the writers" on here, it always seems more patronizing than helpful. The people who make the show are adults whose job it is to make the show, and whose career is to do that same job for other shows. Treating them the same way you do fan artists; that is, acting as if you say something negative, they might have their feelings hurt and stop, is horrible insulting to a professional.
ReplyDeleteThere is always going to be absurd and outlandish criticism of anything. There were even absurd and outlandish criticisms, by modern standards, of Christianity back in the Middle Ages, when they tended to execute people for saying anything along those lines. It's something you have to deal with.
I don't really believe that there was a huge outcry against the last episode (or any of them). However, it needs to be looked at this way: if there was, then there is something to be said for it. I thought it was a fine episode, but if others thought it somehow diverged from expected quality, then their opinions are valid and (by the nature of your complaining about them being too numerous) a majority.
Basically, people need to either accept the outliers, or accept prevailing opinion, and stop acting like any time someone says something negative about the show, they are anti-brony trolls come to destroy the utopia built around the show. Acting like people shouldn't speak their opinion is not helpful in either case.
Going to say, although Mare-Do-Well wasn't my favorite episode, it was still fantastic, and anyone that was complaining about the identity needs to reevaluate their bronyism.
ReplyDeleteTo the FiM team: keep up the great work, S2 is so AWESOME! *dashface*
It wasn't the greatest episode, but it had a good lesson to be learned. We can't expect it to be all around super awesome, since it still is a show meant for little girls. I hope Studio B won't get too discouraged of the dislike the episode got.
ReplyDelete@Shaun Hegney The loving and tolerating was never about "ALWAYS RESPOND POSITIVELY TO EVERYTHING", I've always understood it as "keep optimistic, don't judge just based on opinions, beliefs, or other factors other than that person's core attitude and actions, and try to be constructive when being negative."
ReplyDeleteI also get pretty annoyed when people complain the show changed around their side character head cannon.
ReplyDeleteWell said Seth.
ReplyDelete@Flutterfan
ReplyDelete@Shaun Hegney
@Sovietbrony
@bky1701
There's giving criticism, and then there's being rude about giving criticism. In the Mare-Do-Well episode post, as well as some of the previous episodes, all four types of crticism in that comic were made. It is possible to give honest, respectful criticisms that the creators will appreciate. It is also possible (and unfortunately much easier) to give the exact same criticisms in a manner that just comes off as being unnecessarily negative and off-putting. It just takes a careful, considerate approach to send the right message. They work hard at what they do and are often pressed to meet production constraints, and it's important to respect that when giving criticism. I feel Nyxilis, Overlong Analysis Cobalt, bestpony, and especially Heartmend have it right. As in my previous post, I agree with dmtactical's view.
"Love and/or tolerate." Love the effort and hard work that gets put into making the show. Tolerate the show's shortcomings and imperfections.
Tolerate (verb.) To be able to bear, put up with.
You don't necessarily have to like it, and there's nothing saying you can't voice your opinions here, it's just that there's a right way and a wrong way to go about making yourselves heard. Oftentimes there is a better way to voice a criticism and get the same intended point across.
I think some ponies are confused here... No one is saying you can't say "This episode isn't very good" or "I don't think season 2 is as good as season 1".
ReplyDeleteWhat people are saying is don't say "The writing stuff is absolutely terrible this season!" or "WTF why are they ruining this show!?" type deals.
One can state an opinion in a way that's not insulting or belittling... I imagine most (if not all of you) work or go to school yes? Think how it would make you feel if some of your good (if not best) works got put on display, something you had a lot of pride in. Now you go to check out your displayed work (homework, artwork, a setup shop display, a recompiling engine for a different computer archetecture, it doesn't really matter) and all you see are people yelling about how terrible you were and what a shitty job you did... Yeah... would probably suck.
What if instead of that you saw comments like (taking a picture as an example) "The perspective is a little off on the leg." or "I don't like it, the colors in the background are just off"... You'd not only be less likely to be insulted, but their points would actually get to you.
THAT is what this post is about. One should never shy away from their opinions and no one should feel that they can't express that they don't like something, especially where the show is going. I guarantee you the staff LOVES comments both positive and negative as it lets them hone what they have. What no one wants, however, is to be insulted or to be told that the characters THEY created aren't as they should be.
Remenber everyone, its just a cartoon.....if they change something...its because it was for the good.
ReplyDeleteWell enjoy the new episode
also get ready for new rarity memes
Also waffle pretty much said what I said, before I said it and in a less rambley way ;)
ReplyDeleteThis is very true! I've enjoyed every episode so far, and people shouldn't be critical of them! It kinda goes against the whole message of the show!
ReplyDeleteI was also surprised by the reaction people had at Episode 8. Uncalled for wasn't enough to describe it. That is a great episode! How obstuse can some people be to judge it only because it's not what they expected?
ReplyDeleteI don't think fanon is ruining the fandom, it's more like a few people who want the fanon to become canon the ones who are ruining it. But we are more. True bronies keep loving and tolerating.
I would hate to think that the comments of some members of the community are making the creators of Friendship is Magic more adverse to interacting with the older fans. This is an excellent show, and most people who watch it love it to pieces.
ReplyDeleteI suspect those who whine about little things are more inclined to comment about it, and so they appear to be greater in number.
I thought it was great though :/
ReplyDeleteYeah, Seth's right, people were kinda ungrateful last week really. You guys do realize that they probably included all the superhero reference stuff just for us older male fans. What with the batman posters, the theme music, the friggin costume. They made an effort to include all that stuff, stuff which the little girls who are meant to watch this probably wouldnt get. Granted every episode has flaws, nobody's perfect, but that's no reason to be hatin on em. These guys value us, we gotta respect them.
ReplyDelete@themadnessblogger
ReplyDeleteYour stance, while admirable in theory, is actually what everpony should NOT be doing.
There is no reason to brownnose the creators and very few people like to be brown nosed when seeking opinions (why else would they come to a fan site?)
If you don't like a scene, a character, or an episode you should feel free to say so... Again, it's all about being respectful about it.
Amen to that. We are so very lucky to have this show in the first place. It is simply incredible, and we should do well to remember that!
ReplyDeleteSethisto is absolutely right. We must pay some respect to the people making this possible, even if we are not happy with some minor details ;)
ReplyDeleteIf someone from the staff is reading this:
Keep up the good work! You're doing a great job and bringing smiles to thousands of faces ^^
Yeah I noticed this too. Shame really...
ReplyDeleteI love every bit of this show. Whatever the writers do, I have given them my full trust and they always did an excellent job; just by the hard work they do alone is more than enough credit. Creating a great show isn't easy.
ReplyDeleteI find it hilarious that some people think 1 season, or better yet, 26 episodes is enough to set the style to stone for a tv show. And then Hate on any new episodes if its even the slightest bit different to any of the first season or first 26 eps. Quite possibly the most laughable mindset I've ever seen fans have.
ReplyDeleteIn other news 80 million page hits. yay
ReplyDelete@Flutterfan
ReplyDeleteI agree totally. I just didn't like the episode very much. People are allowed to do that without being called out like they're evil.
The number of people upset because it wasn't (favorite fan character here) was miniscule next to the group who just didn't like the episode.
I actually liked the last episode.
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