I'm thinking of compiling the more classic "pony scenes with music" PMV's into their own posts. We have been pretty strict about those lately, and only taking videos with custom effects, vectors, lip syncing, ect.
What do you guys think? Should they make a comeback?
We originally started cracking down on it due to the lack of interest in the PMV posts in general. We have all seen Rainbow Dash sonic rainboom a million times to pretty much every song out there. It was just a flood. The really good stuff wasn't getting any airtime.
I leave it up to you!
And for those that don't really care, have a PMV after the break. It's one of those custom vector, effecty, lipsync ones!
155 kommentaari:
Nah, I think it's fine the way it is. There isn't too much effort that goes into a PMV if they don't try to sync it up, at least.
VastaKustutaI agree ^
VastaKustuta"Should they make a comeback?"
VastaKustutaI approve of this.
Go for it Seth, I enjoy a good PMV :)
VastaKustutaI love the videos where people try their own animation and make it funny with loads of randomness. It's good that people take the time to make videos, but just putting music on scenes isn't really that great.
VastaKustutamaybe make a single post a day with all the poor quality pmvs?
VastaKustutaThere should be a quality check of sorts, but that doesn't mean that the lower quality PMV's should be rejected imidiately. Original Ideas, and real well made PMVs should always be accepted regardless of quality.
VastaKustutaMaybe do it like story updates. The flashier PMV's, like the one above, go into the PMV news releases we get every day or so. Classic PMV's can then get compiled into a post that's, say, once a week.
VastaKustuta@K-R
VastaKustutaJust to clarify, I'm not saying any PMV should be posted, but I consider that as long as it's well done, not fancy stuff, it itsn't a bad idea.
I wouldn't mind seeing some of the better ones every now and again.
VastaKustutaI don't care either way. Though there probably should be some type of filtering or indeed the really good stuff may not get through. Or there would simply be a million PMV posts if simply anything was put in. Since there's so many new PMV's constantly. But some of the more classic older stuff is good. It really all depends on a case-by-case basis.
VastaKustutaBefore saying anything, can anyone clarify me one thing?
VastaKustuta"Pony scenes with music" means in other words less fancy effects (like the ones shown in this PMV up here)?
My interest in PMV dropped drastically when you started cracking down.
VastaKustutaAll I want is stuff that tells a story. Custom effects, lip syncing, all that is just window dressing. It's not important. What IS important is the music and scene choice COMMUNICATING something.
Don't give me light shows with music attached and my interest will be regained. I can see pretty effects anywhere.
Yea, a quality check would be great, or maybe like a voting system, where all the PMV's can have a separate pagepeer can choose their favourite ones and they can steal the spotlights on the frontpage!
VastaKustutaThat is, if you want too...
Autor on selle kommentaari eemaldanud.
VastaKustutaYes, they should make a comeback. Not everyone has the time, experience and resources to make the more complex vids. Just because someone doesn't own Adobe After Effects doesn't mean they should be excluded.
VastaKustutaWhere we*
VastaKustutaI agree with Ravens. PMV's take initiative and skill, no matter the effects. Why should those with fancier toys have all the attention? Just make sure that they aren't some half-hearted attempt.
VastaKustuta90% of PMVs are crap. That's just Sturgeon's Law in effect. The problem is that about 9% of them are headache-inducing wastes of time, despite being done well. I'm willing to sacrifice the 1% of PMVs that are worth watching.
VastaKustutaDrumroll hoofshake. And there was much laughing.
VastaKustutaMusic section. Nuff' said. Those buttons on the top might need to be shrunk to fit this all in. I find the "media" section extremely cluttered. We're starting to get more animations and videos, too.
VastaKustutaKinda depends. Some of the more 'traditional' PMVs(and fanmade music videos in general, not just the pony ones) are really good, and some of them are complete and utter crap.
VastaKustutaAssuming there's still gonna be some quality control either way, I don't mind seeing more of the simple ones, as long as they're still good ones.
If they get their own posts? Yes. More pony, Seth.
VastaKustutaI'm not saying that they have to be of astounding quality and something that only those with high-end software can make, but they should do something to show that they really wanted to make a quality video, not just choosing random scenes from the show and playing music.
VastaKustutaWell after reading the comments,
VastaKustutaI for one understand the strictness, since the ones you admit are really worked on videos, and that always deserves a bit of recognition. Plus, of course there's tons of PMVs around youtube, and as many know some aren't as good as others, or some just aren't even worked on. Others are annoying and so on.
But that doesn't mean that some of the less "fancy" ones should be taken as less good or anything. You can make a PMV without fancy effects that still is pretty damn good. Not everyone is an expert of editing, yet they do a fair good job, that keeps you watching and listening. Wether if there's Lip sync or not, doesn't really matter, as well as the fancy effects, as long as the song and the images shown makes you feel something positive, that is what a good PMV is all about.
So, I have no idea what to answer, maybe give it a try again, and if it the community rejects it then, there's your answer.
the songs they make PMVs of are not my kind of music most of the time so i dont have any opinions but if you manage to find something intresting, post it.
VastaKustuta/twilightsparkleyesyesyesyesyesyesyes
VastaKustutaI definitely think that the best of the best should get special mention, but the not-quite-so-good stuff definitely shouldn't be completely left out in the cold. I'd wager that that's where most of the current artists got their start, really.
@Pen Stroke
VastaKustutaGood idea. Second that.
I like Pen Stroke's idea. Do it like story updates. Basically the same as now, but compile the less flashy PMV's into one big post every week or so.
VastaKustutaI enjoy a nicely done PMV myself, and I don't much care about effects. They can be cool, but they can also often just get in the way. To me, the important part of a PMV is the editing. It can have zero effects and no lip syncing and still be pretty awesome if the creator knows how to cut it to the music in order to create something greater than the sum of its parts.
VastaKustutaI end up using the other posters as my barometer for what I need to check out. I open up a post, scroll down and look for a consensus... if a bunch of people are saying they thought #2 was great, then it definitely gets a watch (or a listen, if its just straight out music.) I'll usually still sample the others and see if they grab me.
I enjoy a good PMV, sadly I haven't seen many that are what I would qualify as really worthy of their own posts, so I would maybe tuck them in with the music posts.
VastaKustutaI like the way things are right now. Exceptional PMVs get their own post while 2 to 3 noteworthy PMVs are placed into their own post.
VastaKustutaI like a good PMV but I really get tired of watching random clips set to music.
@GabuEx
VastaKustutaI agree %100. I know that if it wasn't for Seth putting several of my PMVs in their own post, I wouldn't have that many subscribers like I do now. There are a lot of criminally overlooked PMV artists out there and I try my best to let others know about them.
It really depends on the type of video. If it is just a random mashup of random clips then...no. Don't post them. But if it's a quality PMV that's well organized, good clip choices, and all that jazz then I DEFINITELY want to see them. Some of my favorite editors use no effects or barely any at all.
VastaKustutaI just want to see stuff with substance I guess. There's a lot of videos that throw random vectors in that I can't stand either.
I can't say i watch too many PMVs (most of it is electro/videogame music which i don't listen to), but i'd love to see these PMVs back, as some of my favorites are actually "classic" PMVs.
VastaKustutaI agree that there's a lot of terrible PMVs out there, but there's some really good ones too and the fact that they're getting ignored just because they don't use fancy effects just doesn't seem right. Someone earlier said he/she was willing to lose that good 1% of the PMVs, but isn't this why we have content filters like the EqD staff in the first place? To sort the quality stuff from the bad? Good PMVs require hard work as well - I say post them.
VastaKustutaHere's a fairly good example, I think, of a quality PMV without any special effect and shiny stuff.
VastaKustutaBeing more selective may encourage others to raise their efforts and be an overall good thing. Go for it.
VastaKustuta"Classic PMV's" like the ones I used to make. But sadly, I just don't have the skill or know how to make something as flashy as the pmv's I've been seeing on here.
VastaKustutaKinda discouraged with making anymore after Youtube took down my pmv "Return to Ponyville". ;_;
Yeah I agree with GabuEx, don't shun the low quality stuff, just separate it so it doesn't drown out the really good stuff.
VastaKustutaIt may seem like ghettoising them, but it's better than good PMVs being ignored.
Yes, post them! Just because someone can add a ton of special effects and all that other stuff doesn't mean that it's better... I'd love to see more well thought out PMVs...
VastaKustutaI agree with outstanding PMVs getting their own posts, with the more standard PMVs being compiled into larger posts. Every couple days sounds about good to me.
VastaKustutaTo me, flashy PMVs loaded with effects are like a Michael Bay movie. The effects are there just to be there. A classic, plain, well made PMV, in my opinion, is better.
I don't really know... The only thing I know that I give up trying to sending something to here D:
VastaKustutaRUSH WOO![/ignores discussion]
VastaKustutaBundle the mediocrity, show off the unique and well-done.
VastaKustutaA PMV doesn't need incredible effects to be great. Look at PonyCraft 2, that had very few effects, but was incredibly well done. The best PMVs are the ones that create a story, like "and the stars will aid in her escape". Effects, when used correctly, can be amazing, but effects aren't the only thing that you should consider when you decide to put them up here.
VastaKustutaRush and Ponies. My life is complete.[ignores discussion}
VastaKustutaI think it doesn't all need to be fancy editing and special effects and whatnot. But at the same time, I don't think it'd be too hard to pick out things that're obviously half-assed. Maybe do most of the really good edited ones, and just some of the particularly good ones that are just clips synched to music?
VastaKustutaI agree that since our community has grown so much, we've got to be more selective out of sheer necessity. But a video can be exemplary for more than just editing prowess. If a PMV has a clever or unique combination of scenes and audio, then I think it deserves a highlight just as much as a PMV with amazing editing.
VastaKustutaAhhh god my eyes, that background colour change caught me by surprise.
VastaKustutaAutor on selle kommentaari eemaldanud.
VastaKustutaPersonally I think there should be a separate post for custom music that is composed by fans, and then a post for PMVs.
VastaKustutaI say yes, but only if the images really fit the music well.
VastaKustutaI can agree that there's a lot of random, crappy "Look I just played my fave tune with some random pony stuff int he background." But, not having PMVs split off can make it hard to find awesome things like the well-made "This is War" or "Flutterwonder"
VastaKustutaI think they need to be made easier to find somehow. Even better tagging in the media section would be an improvement.
Yes, please bring them back as long as there is some quality control - basically good sync is all I ask. There's plenty of room for humor or creativity without using tons of effects (Appleloosan Psychiatrist is one of my favorites of all time because it tells a story, for example, and it addicted multiple non-pony fans who viewed it).
VastaKustutaIt's true enough that there's also some shoddy or learning efforts that just aren't worth most people's time. Perhaps some form of community QC is in order? I'm sure you'd get volunteers.
I think you don't have to post too many here on EQD since all those videos can easily be found on youtube. Just search for pony music if you are in the mood for it and browse around, good ones will sooner or later automatically get more views.
VastaKustutaMaybe a few good ones could also be added to the media archive, but not necessarily posted here.
Personally, I don't like the effects heavy PMVs. I prefer simply putting footage to music. (A few effects are okay, but they should be mostly unnoticeable.)
VastaKustutamore pony is always better.
VastaKustutaTwo more points, one is that I've seen plenty of funny little silly clips that don't really meet normal video posting standards, but are at least as funny as many of the posted comics. Perhaps there should be some sort of weekly best-of for that sort of thing as well.
VastaKustutaThe other is that if the PMV flood has dried up a little, it's probably because it's the end of the semester. Wait until the summer and I'm sure there'll be a flood again.
YESYESYESYESYESYES!!! I freaking LOVE Rush! That was amazing! And to your question, definitely post more PMV's that are high quality, especially one's that are this good. Awesome job, I want some more classic rock PMV's. :D
VastaKustuta@Magnus the Blue
VastaKustutaI agree with you and penstroke a group post for PMV is nice
Reading through most all the comments here, it's going to be a tough call since what some consider "good" others may not particularly like. As is with most stuff I guess. It's all subjective on what makes something "good" or "bad".
VastaKustutaMy video wasn't good enough for Equestria Daily. it has more views and likes on youtube than half the stuff that is.
VastaKustutaHere's a thought, why don't you just post good PMVs regardless of whether they have fancy editing or not. I mean, yeah, the PMV you posted today looks fancy. I wouldn't call it good.
@3Power Link?
VastaKustutaPersonally I'd like to see a division between actual PMVs like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGBgcyF4HcM&feature=channel_video_title and chaos made into music like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlV8buv6kqs&feature=player_embedded#!
VastaKustutaI'm looking forward to more fanimations, to be honest. There HAVE been a few good PMVs as of late, but yeah, I look forward to hard work people put into pony related things. Derpy Cardcaptor was freakin' awesome! TF2 Sandviches wasn't really "pony," but damn well done. Whatever the hell I'm working on will be something god-like when I'm done, for sure (and I don't care that it's Cupcakes related; it'll be epic).
VastaKustutaAlthough, if you want to see a bunch of good PMVs, HaxMega plays a LOT of them in his stream before each episode. There's some good stuff out there.
@Jelfes
VastaKustutahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8xaOfbHRMA
The other two pony videos on my channel were submitted too, but I chalk up their relative lack of success on youtube to the fact that they are anime related.
Don't call it a PMV, it's music with a pony facade, But sure why not?
VastaKustuta@Jelfes There's a giant difference between not synchronizing a video and a video not having a ton of fancy effects.
VastaKustutaI respect the old-fashioned style of PMV where there aren't three dozen filters tossed on top of the clips, where the scene choice itself is what determines the quality. Flawless timing and synchronization can be difficult and time-consuming to put together, and choosing scenes that match the music perfectly can be done to fantastic effect.
It's generally better when the song itself is something entertaining and/or faster-paced, though. I'd suggest finding the good ones and just putting them in with the fancy ones. If they've got poor timing or poor scene choice or just seem lazy or use scenes in ways we've all seen a billion times, don't let them through.
That said, I know it's not that easy, you need a bunch of prewatchers to check them over and make sure only good ones are getting through, but excluding them just for not having a mastery of After Effects while they still have excellent scene choice that flawlessly fits the music.
Case in point, you can take an example from my videos, particularly Ultimare Foaldown of Ultimane Despony. No effects, just timing and scene selection that blends greatly with the music. I'm sure I seem arrogant by using myself as an example, but my stuff's generally well-received and I'd hate to see well-made stuff get passed over for not having a ton of masking and effects.
tl;dr: Just don't outright exclude them because there are some very good ones without tons of effects. Look them over and just mix them with the regular PMV posts.
Sethisto! as long as you're looking for suggestions, I have one: why not ask PMV/remix/etc. creators to submit a 2-3 sentence description of their videos? Often, I can't tell from the title alone whether a video is of interest to me or not, and so I end up skipping over the posts. If there were short descriptions, something like fanfic authors supply when they submit stories, it's be easier for blog goers to decide for themselves what they do/don't want to watch. Plus it's less work for you, since you don't have to spend so much time sorting the wheat from the chaff. Everyone wins!
VastaKustutaAnyway, just a thought.
I like seeing ALL the PMVs, I won't like every single one but they're all worth a shot. It's nice to see what people can come up with and what others like about them. Cause if all we get is PMV's that are well lip synched, sure that's hard to do but it could ruin the whole PMV if they just chose a crappy song (I'm very picky about music). The my first introduction to FiM was the SCII Wings of Liberty trailer PMV about a year and a half ago, the second was Ponies: The Anthology, we need more of that kind of stuff! A compilation of a few, very well executed mini PMV's with hilarious dialogue (pretty ponies using foul language is VERY amusing "SECRET BUTT FUN!") and of course trailers.
VastaKustutacan i coment? i love the way it is now :) though, if you find one that satnds out whiout having any of those things, its ok for me :D
VastaKustutaand also, you guys should trow some links of stuff that like(no need to be pony only) in the nightly roundups :)
@3Power
VastaKustutaI gotta agree with this guy. The PMV is well done and doesn't need any fancy effects to be good.
(Thanks for introducing me to a really good song, BTW. This is another power of the PMV's: introducing people to new music by the use of pony scenes which may appeal more to bronies to watch, and it's being lost a lot when not-fancy-PMV's are not posted)
HOLY SHIT! I CAN COMENT!!!!
VastaKustutawell, as long as we still see the good stuff, I'll support whichever decision gets made. Not sure it really matters so much tbh.
VastaKustutaI think that while we should try to keep the high standard we have now, but let in more of the lesser ones in. There are plenty of rather good ones that don't make the cut simply because of things like lack of special effects.
VastaKustutaI didn't mind seeing them go away, it was getting rather repetitive. I have seen a few good ones though.
VastaKustuta@Octavia True, but we don't seem to have a problem filtering out bad fanfics here. Why can't a similar process be done for videos? Perhaps the staff could write something in the submit section outlining what they look for in a quality video, to point to and say "you did good on this, but you need work on this point, this, and this." Then the maker can go back and improve their thing. Would that be too difficult?
VastaKustutaI'm not going to downplay how amazing good effects can be, but if you're going to give a video special attention simply because of the sheer volume of video effects regardless of how they are used, then I may just have to shoot myself.
VastaKustutaPrime example: That video right up there. I got about ten seconds in before I started feeling queasy. If I were to give any criteria for what kind of PMVs I would like to see here, it would probably boil down to "Not that."
THAT is not a PMV. That is an editor trying to use as many effects as possible in as many ways as possible in the most self-indulgent way imaginable. He/she may simply be trying out new things, and I applaud that. But I hope they get it out of their system soon and start making some real videos with what they've learned.
This point is all that really needs to be emphasized.
VastaKustutaRandom clips set to music are NOT improved by adding a bunch of filters and effects. It's still a bunch of random clips set to music.
I don't care what you put up, as long as you keep putting up these Rush PMVs.
VastaKustutaSeriously though, higher quality standards.
Also I'd like to repeat what I've seen a number of people point out. Lots of cool effects do not necessarily make a good video. It may look pretty and I can respect the work that goes into them, but unless there is some sort of substance to go with the style I often find myself bored while watching them. Some of the effects heavy PMVs have been very entertaining, others not so much. Likewise, I have quite enjoyed many of the videos that just mix image to music very well without going overboard with the effects.
VastaKustutaI feel like the amount of effects a PMV has does not define its (or its creator's) level of quality. The quality is determined by how effectively the music and images work together to convey some type of meaning/feeling. The video software someone possesses does not relate to their talent in any way. There should still be some quality control in both categories, but the PMV posts should be split somehow so people can find what they're looking for easier.
VastaKustuta-Side note- The "Media" button at the top should also be split up. Sooooooo many different categories in there.
:D
Actually, I just noticed that it's impossible for me to watch PMV's that are full of effects, as opposed to the "classic" PMV's. Usually, the overuse of effects some people do in their PMV's give me a headache and I need to change tabs and just listen to the music, which is silly because if I want such thing I could just buy the CD or download the song.
VastaKustutaI find it easier (and I actually enjoy) watching the classic PMV's. They don't give me headaches.
Honestly more categories doesn't solve anything -
VastaKustutaIts quality control, (almost)Anything pony related should be welcome on this site so they can and should make a return.
but with the same QA inflation we have seen in every other category as the site continues to grow.
I am all for a comeback, PMVs (the classic style) are one of my favorite things in the community, and it can be a chore to find them directly on YouTube.
VastaKustuta@Jelfes This.
VastaKustutaI'll agree with most of what's been said: it's not the amount of effects, it's whether the composition as a whole is effective or not. On the one hand, the video here I think could've gone a little better (and it's one of my favourite songs too). The whole alienation bit didn't seem to come through that well. On the other hand, this video's author also did 'Manehattan Project', and I'd call that very effective (aside from two bits), and it's another song I love.
VastaKustutaHowever, I've also seen some videos that try to rely on effects and turn into a wreck. I've also seen the random stuff videos. What's best is if all the tools are used to put together something, as mentioned, that itself tells a story. 'Manehattan Project' is one, and I've seen another set to 'Holding Out for a Hero' that has minimal effects but still has the narrative thread to it.
I would welcome the return of "classic" style PMVs. Like so many have said, adding a bunch of filters and effects doesn't automatically add up to a good video. Does the video convey a story, a message, or emotion? Do the scenes make sense? That's what adds up to quality.
VastaKustutaI will add that I still find Silly Billy's "Don't Stop Me Now" Rainbow Dash video to be one of the most thoroughly entertaining pony videos . . . despite the fact that not only does it lack "effects" but also was made at a time when the creator only had four episodes to draw from.
I think that they should make a comeback, I don't think that a PMV should require flashy effects to get posted on EQD. Of course there should be some quality control, but that should be left up to the discretion of the blogponies to work out.
VastaKustutaI do like flashy effects though.
I had wondered why all the PMV these days were all full of special effects and fancy tricks. Now I understand.
VastaKustutaIt's not that I don't enjoy the effect filled PMVs too, but there is just something I really respect when someone can make a great PMV with just the simple tools of music and clips from the show. Most of my all time favorite PMVs are from the earlier days of this site and the fandom, the simpler kind of PMVs.
Although I like it that content posted here is relatively good quality, but just fancy effects doesn't make PMV good or better than one without fancy effects and I'd like to see more balanced take on PMVs on this site.
It doesn't need to have flankload of effects to be a good PMV one can enjoy.
VastaKustutaIMO sometimes there are too much effects, so the overall feeling is kinda meh.
My stance is - apply a quality control from a standpoint "this is an enjoyable PMV", and not by the amount of effects used per second. If a great PMV happen to have little effect - well, why the hell not?
I would love to see the "classics" return... being that's all I'm "good" at editing.. sucks to be rejected cause I can't use Effects....
VastaKustutaI say as long as the idea is good, possibly Original (not done 100 times already) and is entertaining.. then i think thats really all that matters... all the fancy effect ones get kinda boring
Personally...
VastaKustutaI don't get any sort of MVs.
As long as the clips are used in such a way that they can visually convey the music choice, any and all PMVs that are pointed out should at least be considered, if not actually posted. Sure, some people take the easy way out and put minimal effort, but the really special ones are those that do what they're supposed to do to the fullest with or without fancy visual effects -- namely, entertain.
VastaKustutaNot everyone has to be a high-class video editor with all of the stops such as After Effects and Photoshop to have a lasting impression. After all, where would we be without video editors such as Yaridovich (responsible for the Moonbase Alpha pony video with presently over 1 million views, which while not strictly a PMV, is pertinent to my point), whose weapon of choice, at least at that time, was Windows Movie Maker?
This Pmv from Mulan is one of the ones that made me a brony. The only effects I can see used are "cut", "paste", and "pause". The lip syncing comes from really good scene selection and some well timed pauses. We need more of these.
VastaKustutaFlintban
I think we should stop saying that the PMV owns something.
VastaKustutaGrammatical issues aside, the current setup is fine.
I agree that there should be a comeback since I just submitted a PMV without advanced effects and etc and didn't make the cut. But I think frequency and quality is key when it comes to these things.
VastaKustutaStock footage + stock music != PMV...you at least have to put in some editing work on the video and/or sound, possibly add some overlays. Custom work beyond that is obviously relegated to those of you with talent. But if I was going to make a PMV, I would at least cut up the footage/music to make sense. There's no point to posting just part of a pony episode with music running over the top of it.
VastaKustutaI would be perfectly fine with PMVs returning, but my only concern is quality. Even if they aren't flashy, a clear effort should certainly be made to sync the visuals with the audio, and it should choose specific scenes that would match the song's message.
VastaKustutaI don't mind a subdivision sort of thing for just clips PMV's and effects PMV's,all of these are special in their own ways,some people can't get the tech to do all the really cool stuff some people do
VastaKustutaWow, that might have been one of my favorite PMVs ever.
VastaKustutaThat aside, I am a fan of more "traditional" AMVs/PMVs but only if there's clearly been effort put into them. I think you guys know when a person has worked long and hard on a quality "traditional" PMV, and personally I don't think just a bunch of blur effects etc. make it THAT much better than unedited clips (photoshops/syncs can even fall into this category if they're just thrown in there for the hell of it and serve no real purpose). If putting the BEST OF THE BEST of the "traditional" PMVs requires a separate post then I have no objections.
I say broaden the scope, but apply the same high standards as are present in the Fanfiction reviewing section - only the really good ones make the cut. If this means that a pefectly timed PMV with no special effects wins out over an okay-ish, effects-heavy piece, so be it.
VastaKustutaAll the Effects really Take away from the fun of it, too flashy. But Awwwwwwww YEAH! Rush!
VastaKustutaAll the Effects really Take away from the fun of it, too flashy. But Awwwwwwww YEAH! Rush!
VastaKustutaI think the best way to judge PMVs is subjectively, the same way as artwork. If a PMV impresses you than I'd say it's worth posting. If it doesn't maybe at least get one other opinion before rejecting it. Sometimes too many effects just ruin a video instead of make it better, and a video with no effects can still be good if it's made with care. We're all working the with same footage here, so it just comes down to who can use it most effectively.
VastaKustutaIf I may self plug, I made my Ponycraft 2 video somewhat in response to cereal's "This is how you edit an amv" post with that lackluster effects video a while back. That post actually made me a little mad since it pretty much crapped on everything I strive for when making a music video. I wanted to show that effects are a secondary concern in a good video.
VastaKustutaThere are several subtle effects in my video but they are only there to enhance the impact of the clips themselves. For example: Making Luna's eyes glow in scenes they didn't originally and that cloud transition towards the end.
What IS important in that video is the rhythm and precision of the editing and transitions. I made sure that every necessary beat was hit and every cut was accurate to the frame. And wherever there was a cut or crossfade, I kept in mind not to let the point of focus on the screen shift too much between clips. If the eye was drawn to the center of the screen at the end of the first clip, I made sure that, within reason, the images in the next clip did not force the viewer to shift their focus from that point.
THIS is what I consider video editing.
I think it is indeed good the way it is, we understand that u know that effects and whatnot are not what make a good pmv, and the editing quality of recent PMV's is amazing compared to what it used to be. There's a difference between not knowing how to use effects and not knowing how to do much of anything with your video software.
VastaKustutaI WOULD KEEP IT THE WAY IT IS NOW.
It should be called an E-PMV is it was good. E for epic. That way the good ones can be separated from the not so awesome ones.
VastaKustuta@Silk_Sk That kind of PMV is what I was talking about earlier. More of these please.(I know I'm using PMV to describe movie and game trailers too)
VastaKustutaAnother thing about PMVs at least for me is if I already like the source song, trailer, or comedy routine it's much easier to like the video in question. The same applies to things I hate.(I refuse to even watch Gaga or Keysha PMVs) I think that's why the suggestion for a previewer system based on the prereader system is probably the way to go. If one or two people are making all the cuts a lot of good material will get cut and a lot of similar stuff continually posted because of personal preference
@BronyMike
VastaKustutaI completely support this.
Lots of effects aren't good. That isn't a PMV. That's a custom animation with ponies as a base. If I see a PMV where the ponies don't improve it, that's when there's a problem.
VastaKustutaPMV's without fancy effects shouldn't be overlooked. Just keep putting PMV's together in the same posts. Effects or no effects a PMV is a PMV.
VastaKustutaIf you post the special effects away from the scenes going along with music I think some people will not check out the Clip PMV's just because they want to see fancy filters.
PMV's are PMV's keep them together.
Well if anypony wants one of my classic pmv's I'll make one. But if it doesn't get posted here on EQD, look me up on Youtube!
VastaKustutaI like the new policy.
VastaKustutaIf you bring back the old PMVs, please put them under a separate heading, so those of us who don't care for them can skip them.
I must say, I recently stopped looking for PMVs, (or Pony Videos) due to the lack of quality control in Equestria Daily when they were introduced; compared to the stories that the website had received and filtered out. Even then, I'm struck down by limited time just like the other fans of the show. I would like a filter be put in the process if the website must represent the best of the fan content.
VastaKustutaSay, speaking of filtering, does Seth decide which images go through the Drawfriend entries; or yet another filter group?
No, i like the stricter rules about PMVs, they need to have atleast decent lipsync if anything if you ask me. Videos with nothing but a song to some random pony clips doesn't really cut it anymore.
VastaKustutaOfcourse it doesn't have to be proffesional level or anything, but as long as they look like they creator has actually spent some time going through which clips to use and actually putting some work into it it's fine,
after all, lets face it, anyone can get vegas pro, final cut or premiere pro from piratebay. And it doesn't take much time to just grab a song from anywhere and throw it into a video with ponies...
require a higher standard of PMV. Unless they make their own pony song and put that to the episode there should be effects or something to spice it up.
VastaKustuta@Kaijyuu
VastaKustuta@Kaijyuu
This pretty much sums up my feelings about the issue.
If they make a comeback, perhaps a drawfriend compilation format should be considered.
VastaKustuta@TheVampirate It's that kind of thinking that I'm campaigning against. A video DOES NOT need effects to be good. It is true, the most popular ones do tend to have effects in them, but only when they have a solid base of basic editing skill to back them up.
VastaKustutaYet, why do people seem to go nuts over video effects no matter how terrible they are? My heart broke every time someone here posted that they thought that video up there was amazing. They way that editor went about using video effects was not unlike a toddler destroying a wall with a box of crayons.
I liked it, but I also like Rush. I still am not sure what PMV stands for... Pony Music Video I think?
VastaKustutaBefore the crackdown, Tosxychor and I used to team up to make a few "Classic PMVs". Because I don't make the vids myself, I would supply the vision (scene suggestions and song choice), and Tos would go ahead and make it. And I think they were well-done, because he strove for good editing and occasionally good syncing, if the vid called for it.
VastaKustuta(Self-Plug here) Some prime examples were "Reading Rainboom" (Filly Sonic Rainboom/Original Opening theme from Reading Raibow), "Wild West Pony Hero" (Applejack scenes with some ELO), and "It's Pinkie's Party (And She'll Cry If She Wants RD)" (Party Scenes/oldies tune "It's My Party"). As I recall, they were well-received by the community.
I had even gone so far as to make a list of 100 pmv ideas that were free-to-use for budding "Classic PMV" editors, which had taken several weeks and a lot of careful thought to compile. However, I ended up releasing it after the crackdown, so it was too late. The list still exists, but... it didn't seem like it was necessary anymore, because of the switch to "Glitz PMVs".
But enough about my story. I'm definitely for bringing back Classic PMVs. I see it as a good idea to recognize more of the lesser-skilled bronies, and to keep involved in contributing directly to this community and its great fanart, both of which I still love.
Not sure how to implement that strategy, though pre-viewers and/or regulated posting intervals/grouping would sure help.
Thanks for putting up this post, and for hearing me out.
@ Johnny
VastaKustutaI uhh think ya double-posted there. But no worries really.
I like your idea. Tags might definitely help, too.
In fact, the ENTIRE fanfic system here on EQD might serve as a good model for PMVs.
What about mhhh... "Regular PMV compilation #abc" or "Standart PMV compilation #abc".
VastaKustutaBut also I'm agree with what people say, excelent PMVs deserve to be highlighted, like EqD is doing now.
They should be vetted sure, but HOLY CUPCAKES!!! RUSH!!! YEAH! I loves me some Rush, yessur!
VastaKustuta@Wento
VastaKustutaI think you underestimate the creative decisions that go into these kinds of videos. It's not solely "slapping on clips to music" as you seem to imply, but more finding the right clips that apply to that particular moment in the song, and THEN piecing them together accordingly.
Lip-synching is nice and all, but it's unfair to consider it a universal must. I personally find it kinda cheesy, since seeing male singing voices coming out of female characters (or singing voices in general coming from a character that's obviously just speaking) is disconcerting and breaks the mood (which is more pertinent to me).
@Johnny and everyone else that doesn't know how yet. You can copy paste this bit of code to link vids
VastaKustutaa href="URL_GOES_HERE" rel="nofollow">WORDS_THAT_ARE_LINKED_GO_HERE</a
you will need to add one of these "<" without the quotes at the begining of the line.
and one of the opposite sign of this "<" without quotes at the end. you know the "greater than" sign. It won't let me type it directly because it thinks it's code.
Then replace the caps locked stuff with the proper address and words you want linked and you're good to go.
Also good points on the many subcategories of what we call pmvs. More accurate descriptions of the vids in question will allow people who don't care for certain types to just skip it. As we can tell from the comments, we all want good pmvs but we don't agree on the definition of good.
Rush ah yeah
VastaKustutaRush ah yeah
VastaKustutaI would rather have an original song or pony remix set to a still photo than a mainstream song set to a PMV.
VastaKustutaBut if it's a really good PMV like those 2 Awolnation ones and the "Stars will aid in her escape one" that's fine too.
Autor on selle kommentaari eemaldanud.
VastaKustutaThose simple videos with nothing but scene selection and lip sync were the types of videos I started out with, and the exposure/subsequent audience reaction they got when posted here in the earlier PMV days (May-July), was what motivated me to not only make more videos, but also improve my editing skills.
VastaKustutaAnd when it comes to the current standards for videos, it's "ok" because it keeps a lot bad ones out, but it has also created this higher quality benchmark that some people feel is unattainable. And ultimately, this sends a message that you need to be an experienced video editor to get your content put on here which can be discouraging to people just starting out.
Another thing are the comments that Seth himself puts out there occasionally when he posts a good video and says "I wish you guys would make more videos that had effects like this." I know it's meant as a comment to encourage people to put more effort into videos, but it can come off as disparaging to people who are making those types of videos, some of which who are doing so because they don't fully know their way around their editing program yet. A video shouldn't be preferred simply because it has special effects. Often times they're nice, but the base of a video, which is your scene selection and timing choices, should be considered too.
TL:DR - Yes, provide a post for the simple PMVs because at the very least it will encourage editing beginners to make videos and open them up to critique so that they might improve on future videos they make.
@SunnuvaBiscuit
VastaKustutaAnother thing is whether the ponies would be singing at that point in the song. To use this video, Flutterguy did need to have lip sync, as she was singing Neil Peart's part. However, Twilight would probably not be a good choice for sync if she was the lonely one of the song (much like the kid in Rush's original video wasn't lip-syncing the song).
Definitely continue posting them, but I like what you've done by tagging it with "simple" -- so that way you're denoting that it's a traditional PMV vs. one of the ones that has more effort put into it.
VastaKustuta@Johnny
VastaKustutaTHIS! Please! I am tired of seeing videos I don't care about and I want to find the types that I like. It is rapidly becoming as diverse as the fan-fiction and deserves tags and such.
Also, I would very much like to see fan-made videos and custom edits separated from simple music videos. Things like Apple.mov, Sandvich, Friendship is Witchcraft, and others do not deserve to be lumped in with the music videos.
@Unknown
VastaKustutaYep, that's one of the ones I linked in my post. I was amazed when I realized he created this before the fandom had even really taken off. The only thing I don't care for is the silence at the beginning of the video, I always start messing with the volume out of habit then *boom*
@SunnuvaBiscuit
I love that video so much :)
Here's my two cents, for what they're worth. One of the best things I've seen was just pony scenes with music. It was also sped up just enough to sound like Applejack singing Aerosmith's "Dream On." It got my brother to watch an episode or two with me, and even though he's not as impressed as I am with the show, I think he understands me a bit better now.
VastaKustutaKeep the pony + music posts. They just deserve their own tags to keep them separate from completely fan-developed content.
@Johnny
VastaKustutaOh Celestia, this is definitely a good idea! That's what it's missing...and that would fill the hole. If fanfiction was maintained with those proper tags; so should the MLP fan videos, and I think it should apply to music as well!
You know, doing this thing...I think there should be a way to revisit some of the old, overlooked content and bring it out in the view for the second time - this time with tags.
I'm all for it. Though all PMV's and others like it should have their chance in the Sun.... or Moon... for the darker and more serious videos and PMV's. But Seth.... Gotta outdo Twi on the organization skills.... I hear shes pretty good you know? XD
VastaKustutaOh and as for this PMV... Awesome! Very well done. I grew up on this type of music so its definitely saved to my video library. =D
Maybe if you say you can include one at the bottom of an ordinary pmv post? That way it doesn't get in the way for people who don't want to see it, but for the creator and those who do, it gets airtime. But keep it to one per pmv post; with the standard 3 ordinary pmvs above it. IMHO.
VastaKustutaI'm not into the PMVs. In fact, I try to avoid AMVs in general, so I really rely on you to only post the really good ones with original content worth watching.
VastaKustutaPlease be as selective as possible!
@Johnny
VastaKustutaThe [Normal] videos should be tagged as [Parody] videos
I agree with majority, bring them back!
VastaKustutaYes yes a million times yes. As long as there is some effort to connect the scenes and music with appropriate timing instead of slapping random songs and clips together. If fanfics are screened for quality, it shouldn't be hard to do with PMVs.
VastaKustutaMost of my videos involve showtunes because I like my videos to have a strong narrative and to make bizarre character connections. Even if I had the software and skills to pile on after-affects, I wouldn't. I prefer to focus on synching and smooth transitions to make it look as natural and unedited as possible. Under the current policy, most of my stuff and a bunch of other amazing stuff I've seen is rejected on the grounds of not enough filters and sparkles.
@Harwick Pretty much this.
VastaKustuta@JHaller
VastaKustutaI couldn't agree more with JHaller's TL;DR (heh sorry)
I myself just made my very first video with MLP clips, but I know it doesn't stand a chance to be shown here, so I really don't know where I should post it for others to see.
I wasn't sure if I'd get in trouble posting a link so I won't, but if anyone knows where I can get, what'd Haller call it... "critique", it would help me start trying to get better at making these ^_^
Of course you have this discussion, AFTER my account gets suspended...
VastaKustutaOk, my complaining is done. Time to get serious.
VastaKustutaBack in the day, I had some of my videos accepted here on EqD (Maremelldansen, Classibow, The Mane Never Ends, and Everywhere I Trot). All of these videos didn't have many effects, but they told a story, and told it well. Maremelldansen, before my account was suspended, had grabbed over 100,000 views and 3,000 likes, and it was my first PMV.
After you guys wouldn't accept my recent PMV's (Somare in the Between and Kickapony), I got seriously discouraged. It didn't have many effects, like my old PMV's, but again it told a story extremely well.
tl;dr <--(what the hell does this mean?) all in all, I seriously hated EqD after this rule of "the video needs to have a shitload of effects in order to be good" came into effect. It doesn't, and my videos, as well as others, are proof of this (FluttershyElsa, Jhaller, BronyMike, and chefmkt are just a couple people).
If you decide to change this rule, I will reupload my PMV's to my secondary account and resubmit the ones that were never accepted. Please consider this message.
As a PMV editor who has dabbled with plenty of effects in his videos, I have one simple point to share.
VastaKustutaEditing > effects.
Editing as in good footage selection, lipsync, and a structure to the entire video that relates to the music, whether it is narratively driven or adheres to a theme or an idea. This is often all I want in my PMVs, to have a thread I can follow through the entire video, and to be entertaining, to at least rouse some kind of emotion, whether joy or outrage or sorrow. My favorite videos simply make me laugh, and that's
all I ask for.
The kind of PMVs that typically nab a single post in recent months often bore me to tears. This is a frequent occurrence on EqD, where someone will simply empty the entire Video FX tab in Sony Vegas onto a video, like they're trying to make up for something - which they are. None of them have heart, or soul; none of them make me laugh or cringe or fight back tears. Pink Party Pony Pandemonium is the least favorite of my videos for this exact reason; I tried to elicit joy in it, but all I really did was distract the audience for about 2 minutes with Pinkie clones.
And your audience will let you know. Pink Party Pony Pandemonium was easily the most popular video on my channel when it was initially posted, and had double the amount of views that the (largely) effectless Appleloosan Psychiatrist had. Now Appleloosan Psychiatrist leads the pack, easily 10K views ahead of Pink Party Pony Pandemonium. If that isn't proof that editing trumps effects any day of the week, I don't know what is.
This is what will happen if EqD continues on its present path; you will get countless videos which splice meaningless clips together, spamming the TV Simulator effect in Vegas like there's no tomorrow, while SMART and FUNNY and TOUCHING videos without effects get left by the wayside.
DO NOT LET THIS HAPPEN. Bring back the videos that genuinely entertain, effects or no, and if you find your eyes glazing over from yet another video with an overabundance of pointless effects, ditch it.
Let's bring back the fun in pony videos.
There's something I need to point out here that seems to be common misconception.
VastaKustutaEffects DO NOT equal effort. In fact, most of the effects videos I've seen here actually had less effort put into them than a good deal of traditionally edited videos. Most effects only take a matter of seconds to apply. An exception would be masking, which still shouldn't impress people unless used effectively.
I don’t like the implication here that the inclusion of effects somehow equates to a higher quality video.
VastaKustutaEffects mean nothing without purpose. A video filled to the brim with effects is meaningless if it doesn’t have a strong, unifying concept defining them.
Ultimately an effect is just a tool the creator has at his disposal, a means to convey a message.
“What do I want to tell?” “What kind of music would strengthen this message?” “Do I need effects for this?” “What kind of effects?”
I use effects in my work, but never for the sake of effects. Instead I want to create a distinct visual identity which seamlessly meshes with the music. Something which ends up being more than the sum of its parts. With the Mane Six trailers I want to convey a character’s spirit through the audio and the visuals. This means that they’re experimental and that I have to figure out a lot of things, but I don’t just throw in a vector here, or a lens flare there just because I can.
They’re made with a specific goal in mind, effects are merely a way to reach that goal. Every creative endeavour should start with defining this goal and the challenge lies in finding ways to reach that goal and developing these.
What will happen now is that people will mindlessly throw effects into their video without any thought or consideration just so that they don’t get a “Simple PMV” tag or because “it looks cool”.
Though, the latter truly isn’t a bad thing, as long as the creator is consciously aware that what he’s doing is simply making something look cool: an honest, genuine exercise in turning things up to 11.
Is this better than a story driven, clean cut PMV? That depends on who you ask, but this is a different discussion altogether.
Should there be such a distinction between a video with a lot of effects and a video with minimal effects? No, there shouldn’t be because that isn’t what defines the quality of a video.
YES! RUSH! (Coming from a guy living in the Greater Toronto Area)
VastaKustutaQuality standards? Sounds good. Effects without purpose? What is this, the "Star Wars" prequels?
Story first. I like a little scrutiny for quality's sake, especially because it makes having one of your works accepted feel even better, but you gotta know what MAKES quality. Effects SERVE the story, ideally.
As a video maker myself I would have to go with penstroke's idea at the top of the comments(round-up idea). One of the most important things to encourage something to grow and improve is to critique and challenge, those round-up posts would be amazing for this purpose.
VastaKustutaim praticing that on my drums i am almost their by half but friendship is still helping me pratices my drums. also i am a big and huge rush fan.
VastaKustuta