I know I say this every time, but this was the best episode ever. In reality though it's probably going straight in my top five list somewhere- the voice acting was spot-on the entire time, the whole episode was engaging and genuinely charming, and holy crap I could have been struck dead after seeing Rarity in that royal cape and been totally okay with it.
...
Oh yeah, the follow-up.
I'd like to make a note about the episode as a whole- if you remember the iOS app that I reviewed a few months ago, the story put forth in this episode was basically the exact same one in the app. I'm kind of glad I didn't reveal the entire story in my review now.
That said, there has been some confusion about Luna and Celestia's role in the creation story. If you'll notice, the flag erected at the end doesn't feature them anyway. I'd guess they come later. Debate is always welcome, though!
Now, some silly stuff:
 |
| Seriously, check this thing out. She looks good in anything. |
 |
| Pinkie was brilliant this whole episode. |
 |
| Do I even need to caption this? |
 |
| I was hoping that we might get to see more of these beings. Oh well- they served their purpose. |
 |
| More draconicus' in that painting thing. |
Derpy, of course! She was much easier to find this time around, and I like to think she was waving at all of us. Hi, Derpy! Yes, we see you. Yes, you're adorable.
Someone thought that Fluttershy's shouting at the beginning of the episode was quite cute, so they looped it for ten minutes. I'm totally okay with this.
And last but not least, a music pony has created an arrangement for the national anthem that everypony sang at the end of the episode. Find it above!
244 comments:
SCOOTALOO is best pony
ReplyDeleteStart a Snow Pony competition.
ReplyDeleteSWEETIE BELLE is best pony.
ReplyDeleteFour Horseman of the Apocalypse is now Canon
ReplyDeleteSeason 2 started off pretty slow after the first two episodes but man it's really starting to get good now with episodes like this and Secret of my Excess.
ReplyDeleteGoddamn Windigos! Why couldn't they have just used Discord instead of some dumb spirits that act as nothing but an excuse to wreak havoc!
ReplyDeleteThat Dash and Fluttershy.
ReplyDeleteI cant beleive i missed Derpy waving O_o but she is quite adorable :D
ReplyDeleteNo body caption that pic
ReplyDelete"Start a Snow Pony competition. "
ReplyDeleteYES
Derpy also popped her head out of the train at the very beginning.
ReplyDelete-Moonlight Ballad, Bard of Equestria
"Pinkie was brilliant this whole episode."
ReplyDeleteNo. No she was not. I absolutely hated the way she was written. She wasn't funny. Several scenes were written entirely to give her a chance for a lame punchline. The gingerbread house scene and the map scene were the worst examples.
This was fun episode. I loved Pinkie Pie's wackiness and gladiator Rainbow Dash.
ReplyDeletePinkie completely stole the show this time. Oh, and you were thinking of a Draconiquus, Seth.
ReplyDeleteman i didnt even notice derpy...that was a good episode!!
ReplyDeleteThis weeks episode was great! The only problem (and I use that term VERY loosely)I had with it was that it wasn't holiday-y enough for me. Other than that extremely small detail the whole episode was funny and well done as always.
ReplyDelete@Tanner G
ReplyDeleteDon't forget, the Return of Harmony episodes were created at the end of S1.
@Peter
ReplyDeleteBut they were random, and Pinkie = random.
Jeez, where were you during S1E5 and S1E10?
@Vinyl Scratch
ReplyDeleteActually this is Cereal. The amount of Rarity might have given you a clue.
aki1993 She was in the very first train car in the window.
ReplyDeleteAlso, FINALLY, We get to see Earth Pony magic actually used.
-Moonlight Ballad, Bard of Equestria
@GardBreaker
ReplyDeleteBecause that's what the wendigo does in real life. It's a mythological ice giant associated with starvation and the breakdown of social order - which was the point of the episode. Look them up, the mythos is fascinating.
I'm thrilled the crew are getting inspiration from so many diverse sources, not just repeating the same old thing.
@Oryutzen Ugh, my bad. Haven't slept yet X_X
ReplyDeleteget on the shy-train baby whohoo XD
ReplyDeleteThat was a great Follow Up.
ReplyDeleteAnd, as always, here I leave you guys my review of the episode.
http://awthredestim.blogspot.com/2011/12/my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic_18.html
Remember it's just opinion and I only want to share it with you all ^_^ Hope you enjoy it!
"Seriously, check this thing out. She looks good in anything."
ReplyDeleteIndeed, Fluttershy does...
About the flag (and a lot of other things), my opinion is this: It was a show. A lot of things have probably been glossed over or adapted for a wider, modern audience in the adaptation.
ReplyDeleteNo, you defiantly do not have to caption that.
ReplyDeleteThere is no doubt in my mind that this episode will have a large effect on the community, especially in the fanfiction category, as it definitively answers how Equestria was formed.
Umm...debate for the flag? I don't think so, It was stated on the episode, that this was before Celestia. The flag is just a sign of union, mixing earth ponies with pegasi and unicorns,creating the alicorns. I'd say is just some silly foreshadowing.
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure that's a hearthswarming holiday carol, not a national anthem. Nice follow-up post though. I certainly didn't catch the awesome carving of the pegasus vanquishing that monster the first time.
ReplyDeleteYou know who else is best Pony?
ReplyDeleteMY MOM
@Peter
ReplyDeleteAgree to disagree. I'm with Seth. I especially liked the Gingerbread House joke.
@Peter
ReplyDeleteYou might want to rethink your entire life if you're taking the cartoon this seriously.
Sounds like there's a lot of mixed feelings on Pinkie Pie.
ReplyDeleteI liked her though. Even though she just did gags, her VA did a wonderful job making her lines feel more animated.
@Vinyl Scratch
ReplyDeleteCereal put this together, not Seth.
I would think the blatant Rarity favoritism would have made that obvious.
@Chucklesmoke Spray
ReplyDeletelol, yeah; scootaloo got stuck on that candycane, didn't she?
Awesome episode! They've really raised the bar for season 2! (Captain Obvious am I)
ReplyDelete@Pegasus Rescue Brigade Again, I'm well aware of my derp.
ReplyDelete@Peter
ReplyDeleteI disagree. Though the gingerbread house thing seemed forced, I actually enjoyed everything Pinkie did in this episode.
-"Pegasuseseses"
-"I'm about to be brilliant!"
-"Finder's keepers, looser's Weepers"
-And yes, even "The earth is round. There is no up or down."
Those are only some of my favourite moments in this episode.
That having been said, as an overanalyzer I enjoyed that this episode gave me ALOT of material for a timeline of Equestrian history.
Maybe Pinkie wasn't as strong in this episode as she could have been, but the dynamic between her and Applejack was fantastic. I definitely picked up an Archer/Woodhouse vibe from them , and that's pretty awesome.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the matter of the flag - we see things like that real life. People uses the 20th century "Stars and Stripes" American Flag for a piece of historical art or a performance rather than the "Continental Colours", the first national flag.
ReplyDeleteOr maybe the crew did it to mess with us >_>
Thanks for the Follow Up :) Derpy we love you!
ReplyDeleteVinyl Scratch was in the audience without glasses. She has red eyes. 20:36 on the episode :D
ReplyDeletenice fallow up :)
ReplyDeleteIt might just be because I'm a sucker for anything winter related, but I thought the animation in this episode was pretty breathtaking- especially with the wingido things, those were just wonderful to look at. And all the backgrounds as well! Definitely the best looking episode of the season so far =)
ReplyDeleteI was also pleasantly surprised to find out that it was written by Merriwether Williams, especially after all the flak she got for Mare-do-well.
And yeah, Pinkie was brilliant the whole episode. Probably my favourite episode yet (although I think that every week) =)
@Casual Wisdom
ReplyDeleteI thought it was fine. It was a cute story about an Equestrian Holiday that didn't shove the standard holiday commercialism down our throats (aside from the show's purpose to sell toys to kids, but you know...)
Sorry cereal, but the ponies featured on the flag are Luna and Celestia. They match the ponies on the mural in S2E1 perfectly, colors and everything.
ReplyDeleteThis episode was almost perfect for me, everyone did a great job: the designs, the music, the song, the background, the gags... one of the best episodes in the whole series :D
ReplyDeleteAlso, I liked how every pony from the Mane Six had his glory moments. Even Spike was awesome! :3
Can't wait for the BGM, Mr. Anderson did it again! ^_^
The only thing that puzzles me is to see that the flag of Equestria featured alicorns before the arrival of Princess Celestia and Princess Luna :$
For exemple, a lot of what happenned in the show could have been a metaphor, such as the three leaders fighting over space in the cave could represented an actual WAR fought over the territories of future Equestria, a concept modern ponies probaly wouldn't even comprehend. That, and there were children (okay, foals) in the audience. So I think all these darkfics about ponies making war in the past have actually just been implied to be at least partly right... The flag had the end is either an anachronism, cheesy nationalist propaganda or an accurate representation of events that might be better explained later. That is, anyway, my interpretation. And for everything else? Magic. And Friendship.
ReplyDelete@Woodencoyote
ReplyDeleteI agree, they probably used the modern national flag as a symbol rather than a historical accuracy. It is likely that that from an in-world perspective, the pageant is full of "liberties" and embellishments even though it is based on historical events.
The flag's an ahistorical prop. You can tell that, as it appears when the scene has reverted to the stage background as opposed to being in the flashback.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't call the song their national anthem either. It sounds (more appropriatly) to be a carol... Which really drives home the concept that Friendship and Harmony is the religion of Ponykind... Yup.
The way the characters interacted with one another in the pageant was fantastic though. I was constantly snickering. The Wendigos were awesome too.
Finally, Pegasus culture = Spartan was my favorite thing going away from this episode. Rainbow Leonidas Dash is now best Pony.
[rage]
ReplyDeleteI absolutely agree with Peter!!! This was another bad episode. After absolutely fantastic Spike-centered episode, we have "something" that is completely off canon. I understand that fics are off canon but when canon goes off canon, there's something wrong with it. Seriously. I can only imagine the faces of animators and story-writers when they came to write the scene with Celestia/Luna banner: "oh sh**, we're fu****! what are we going to now?! recolor these foals, children will not notice"
Story, in general, was very simple and as for everything we've seen so far in this show, very uncreative. The worst thing is that Pinkie Pie is being made into a village idiot. She's simply depicted as a retard. Even humble Applejack ridicules her all the time and doesn't have a tiniest bit of respect for her. That's simply sad just like in the episode with buffaloes. I've already got used to the fact that she's somewhere outside the mane6 in season 2 after Discord episodes and she's being reduced to a role of sidekick, but now it's really starting to be sad.
I had to miss live streaming of this episode but I actually don't have any regrets now. It was the worst MLP episode so far. I generally watch MLP grinning like a foal during the whole episode but this time I was mostly bored or disappointed.
There actually have been some good scenes like the one with RD drawing a line using Fluttershy but can't really say anything more. Maybe except seeing BonBon so much. Usually cloned 5-10 times o)
[/rage]
At least there is a lot of room for fabulous fics. Writers have actually a lot of new, undiscovered space for new concepts :)
And now that I actually read Cereal's intro, it seems that the alicorns on the flag are not princesses because of their differend mane colours. Their parents, maybe?
ReplyDeletethis whole episode was just brilliant!
ReplyDeleteI think the name of the monster in the painting is... Dratini!
ReplyDeleteThis is my new favourite episode. It's nice to see something similar to an adventure episode after all of these slice-of-life episodes.
ReplyDeletemy thoughts on the flag. That was NOT the actual flag used for Equestria back then, they just substituted the modern one in it's place.
ReplyDeleteActually, Derpy popped up at least 3 times: 1) in the muffin looking car on the train, in the beginning; 2) on the stage waving to everypony before the show began; 3) backstage after the show, just after the scene transition, holding somepony's hat. There could be more, but that's all I saw.
ReplyDelete@Dr. Sudds
ReplyDeleteI'm not seeing Vinyl at all.
I love the selection of creatures in this show. Seriously, what other show would give us Wendigoes?
ReplyDeleteOn that topic though, Wendigoes are created through excessive cannibalism. Their presence makes cannibalism in Equestria (or whatever the last land was called) canon.
@Maquarba.
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that you're problems with this episode stem from the ROLE Pinkie played in the play. yes Pinkie played Chancellor Puddinghead, but she was NOT actually Chancellor Puddinghead. Yes all the historical characters, Commander Hurricane, etc, etc. acted a lot like the Mane 6 but I attribute that to the mane 6's own personality leaking into the performance.
Of course Pinkie was like a retard because obviously Chancellor Puddinghead was not that smart. You have to remember she was playing a certain character in the play, it wasn't how Pinkie Pie would have actually gone about these situations in her own real life.
As for the flag I agree with what everypony else has said. It wasn't actually historical accuracy. The ponies in the play used the flag because of who their current rulers are. You can see things like that in real life. I personally loved this episode, Pinkie Pie's antics were random as always, and I really liked the windigos.
All in all one of the best episodes of the season for me.
@Maquabra
ReplyDeleteThis is just a troll comment right? I mean, this can't be real??? What are you even writing about - it's so hard to piece together a coherent thought from amidst this mess that I don't even ... Anyway, Pinkie Pie is playing a character - Chancellor Puddinghead - so Pinkie is not made into an "idiot." She is ACTing. I'm not even sure I should be responding to this, because it seems like deliberate paraspritism. How on earth can an episode of the show be "off canon?" What does that even mean, anyway? Are you really complaining about a prop in a play in a cartoon?
@Maquabra
ReplyDeleteCanon can't go off-canon. You can argue all what you want about it, but if it's released under the official logo of Hasbro, it's canon, and you have to deal with it.
But, entering in what you said, what exactly is off-canon of this episode? The train? I'd say that's preeeetty canon, given we saw how they rode another train in Over a Barrel. Plus of course, the intro's train which is the same. Also, let's have something in mind shall we, ponies don't normally walk into mord- I mean Canterlot, when the Grand Gala was held, they used carriages to get to there. True pulled by ponies, but the point is that they take a long while to get there, so think about this for a moment, how on earth did Twilight and the others managed to get to Canterlot in such short notice when Rarity wrote her that Opal was sick in Sweet and Elite? Well here's your answer.
Celestia and Luna banner doesn't show as themselves, they are different colors, yeah. But they also represent the three banners united. The sun and moon, that helps the harvest for earth ponies, the flying pegasi that control weather and the unicorns that bring forward day and night with their magic.
Another thing, Pinkie Pie isn't being retarded in this episode, nor in any episode, she's and you would have known better if you cared to slow down your rage, INTERPRETING another pony, an ancient pony of history. And I don't know you, but in our history at least, there's a lot of nutballs around and not just normal people but kings and queens, so it's just awesome that the pony history also has its share of crazy royal people. And the things you are attributing Pinkie to be in the episodes... I don't know, but to me what is SAD is that you have that vision of her. She's a crazy pony, everyone knows that, also very random, but at the same time clever and smart. In other words, she's in her world, but she doesn't forget to step her hooves in the real ground once in a while. Is what makes her so awesomely awesome.
If you're going to criticize that's totally fine, but if your criticism is only going to be based on the fact that the writers didn't write what you expect the world of MLP to be it's not going to be of any help.
You can depict in your head the world of MLP however you want, but if they make things differently, don't start saying it's off-canon because you don't like it :1
What they say is canon, what you think is not.
@Maquabra
ReplyDeleteI agree with a lot of what you're saying. This episode, to me, was the weakest episode in the entirety of My Little Pony. I kept trying to put myself in the frame of mind that "This is a winter pageant, it's going to be by definition a little more campy than usual", but nothing could have prepared me for how... bleh the whole episode was.
Most of my problems actually stem from the use of the Windigos or whatever they were. Though I thought their design was very cool and I enjoyed every second of them being on screen (they were great nightmare fuel!), I couldn't help but be disappointed by the reason that they show up. Yes, I understand it's a kids show, but... I feel that FiM tends to be a little smarter than that, and tend to deliver good messages with a gentle hand rather than a ballista.
Pinkie Pie did have her good moments, but even she couldn't salvage the episode for me. Her jokes were set up for so long in some instances (like the map) that by the time the punch line came around I was already bored with it.
Something I'm actually looking forward to, however, is how the Alicorns come into it all. I was intrigued that the Unicorns were the ones controlling the sun and moon, and so I'm left wondering exactly where the Alicorns came from and why they were necessary to rule.
Anyway, I hope that this episode just got the crap end of the storytelling stick so that future episodes will be better, kind of like some universal scale of good and bad plot.
Also, to the FiM staff (should you read this, which I heard you sometimes do), I do want to say that although this was by far the weakest episode I have seen in the series, I am by no means driven away from the franchise. Despite the episodes shortcomings, I still enjoyed watching it. Thank you, and keep up the awesome work.
I've said it before: Watch the flag-raising scene again.
ReplyDeleteThe scene begins in the flashback sequence. They put in the flagpole. Then pull the rope.
Now the scene transitions to present time (in the screenshot above). The current Equestria flag is unfurled on the stage.
You do not even see the flag in the Flashback. You only see them put up a flagpole and pull a rope. While this obviously leads to issues with scene legibility, there is actually no error in the timing/iconography juxtaposition.
So the age depicted in the play must be the Pre-Classical era, right? Seeing as how Star Swirl is mentioned, and how Twilight refers to him as being from that time.
ReplyDelete@Shiranai
ReplyDeleteThat's true. The last thing we need is yet another rehash of "Gift of the Magi" or "A Christmas Carol".
@Baron_Smashdown
ReplyDeleteCan we not write the "r" word when responding to Marquarba? It's beneath this website.
Definitely one of my favorite episodes of all time. Everything worked.
ReplyDeleteSure, the "Can you think in a chimney?" part made me groan, but Pinkie was acting on stage. It's natural for her to become a large ham.
I get the impression that a couple of the main 6 put their own spin on the characters, just a little. Chancellor Puddinghead might have been a mostly serious mare/stallion, and Commander Hurricane could have been a bearded old dude. Just a thought.
Everything made sense timeline-wise in this episode, which was great. Now we know that the ponies founded Equestria BEFORE Discord, so the Princesses didn't so much found it as reestablish it. I'm getting the feeling that the Princesses might have been the magical creations of all the ponies of Discord-Equestria crying out for help at the same time. Kind of like Captain Planet, or something. <__<
My favorite fanfictions weren't ruined at all by any of this. In fact, they were improved! This is just icing on the cake - it wouldn't have been a big deal if they'd been overruled by new canon. After all, fanfiction is fanfiction. But they literally came out completely unscathed, which was pretty cool.
I think I just like this episode because it provides much-needed backstory for my own headcanon, and it fits in perfectly like a missing puzzle piece. But the acting was good, the plot was good, the monsters were good, EVERYTHING was good. One of the best-made episodes yet.
@Maquabra
ReplyDeleteI hope you're joking or something, I'm not quite sure but if you aren't then...dear god.
Although I was hoping for more in this episode, it was really well done.
ReplyDeleteThe 'Wind'igos were cool (ohoho) but I wish we knew more of how they came to be. Perhaps they were created by Discord just to mess with the three tribes, before presenting himself as their ruler, y'know, for the lulz.
Edit to my above post: It is not the weakest in the entirety of My Little Pony, that came out wrong. It is the weakest of Gen 4.
ReplyDeleteNOTHING could ever be as bad as all the generations before FiM...
@Milante
ReplyDeleteYeah, monsters that feed on negative emotions have never been used anywhere but children's shows. Like Farscape, ST: TOS; ST: TNG; Heroes, Buffy, the ENTIRE popular and critically acclaimed SERIES Twin Peaks, and how many other shows? It's a common enough device, but that's because it works so well, and it was VERY well used here for a lesson on prejudice and selfishness.
Most enjoyable. As for the question concerning the relevance/lack there of of the alicorns. The thing I noticed was that Clover the clever mention her mentor Starswirl the bearded and from Luna's comments on nightmare night one could assume that she was aquatinted with Starswirl and therefor Luna and probably Celectia were around before or shortly after the founding of Equestria.
ReplyDeleteThen agin it's a play of events over a thousand years old.
This episode was amazing. For those who think it's the WORST. POSSIBLE. THING! ....get your muzzle out of your flank. Stop BAWWWing over canon history. It didn't match your precious fan-fics? TOO BAD! This was great, it was funny,and opens up more possibilities for future history reveals. Lighten the flank up, everypony. It is just a cartoon. Don't make the FiM team facehoof and give up 'cause their unintended audience is ragefacing. Pretty sure the kids ate this all up.
ReplyDeleteSomething's been bothering me since last night: in the play, Clover mentions that her mentor is Star Swirl the Bearded, which is a pretty cool continuity nod...except in Luna Eclipsed, Luna speaks about Star Swirl as if she knew him personally at one point, which implies that the alicorns were in existence during this "Classical" period the play was set in.
ReplyDeleteI mean, granted, it's a clearly dramatized spin on what we can assume is Equestrian history, so it wouldn't be far-fetched to argue that the Princesses just allowed their subjects to make the story primarily about how they all had to come together without the aid of any sort of deities (which would certainly fit the style of a traditional "fable" more closely, IMO), but it does make you wonder what the real story is.
/reading way, way too far into this
This episode might just be my favorite of season 2. Loved every second of it, especially Pinkie/Puddinghead.
ReplyDelete@ponydoraprancypants
ReplyDeleteYes, and no. Most of my problem stemmed from how it was handled. Feeding on negative emotions is ok. The writing of the dialogue explaining it however? That's the part that felt far too weak for this series. Had they said "They prey on negative emotions" or "They feed off of our fighting" or something similar, I probably would have been much more willing to accept it.
@Quentin
ReplyDeleteI don't write fanfics. I rarely read them. I sincerely hope you're not referring to me.
Does anyone else realize that this episode has created a perfect, canonnized way to cross over MLP and Game of Thrones?
ReplyDeleteSomeone better at writing should get on that.
@Maquabra
ReplyDeleteI disagree that this episode violates canon or misrepresents the characters in any way.
The bulk of the episode is a PLAY in which the Mane 6 are depicting historical characters, but are clearly putting their own spin on it.
Pinkie Pie is playing the chancellor. She's acting like an idiot on purpose. She's doing it Pinkie Pie style, but she was deliberately conveying that her character was a fool. As the more sensible one, Applejack's character was the real hero of the Earth Ponies in this story.
While it was clearly based on historical events from an in-universe perspective, the pageant is likely a gross oversimplification of what actually happened. The leaders of each tribe are depicted as stubborn and foolish for hating each other, while the more common members of each were shown as being reasonable with each other.
The use of what is likely the modern Equestrian flag was most likely symbolic, and not meant to imply they actually used that flag back in pre-Celestia days.
It is entirely possible that many of the specific details of what really happened during these events had been either lost (possibly when Discord took over) or were whitewashed over time to gloss over the possibility that ponies may actually killed each other.
The play is thus depicts events in a way that fits in with the current national identity of Equestria.
I think that is the truly brilliant part of this episode. You can enjoy the play in the episode as is, but it also gives one insight into the contemporary mindset of the ponies in the show.
Keeping in mind that this was a play, I guess the only actual canon would be names and events, not dialogue and personalities.
ReplyDeleteCommander Hurricane is referred to as both Sir and "Her", so He/She could have been any gender.
Same with Puddinghead, but Princess Platinum can't really be misunderstood gender-wise.
I do find myself curious about the unseen "Unicorn King" though, as in why he didn't represent the unicorns himself and so on..
I really don't see a reason for the rageboners some people are spouting. First, I thought it was a great episode, with some fun jokes and some interesting ideas, even if the one with Pinkie Pie and the gingerbread one I thought the Wendigos were awesome, along with the reason that they were freezing everything over.
ReplyDeleteSecond, it's not unusual for plays portraying otherwise serious history to be downplayed like this, especially if it's considered a family event. It's like those plays they have about the origin of Thanksgiving, or even the traditional Christmas Nativity Play. It's made simple for kids to understand and enjoy.
Third one for the people with rage boners: Keep in mind that this show, first and foremost, is for the kids. There are a lot of adult fans, with a lot of us having grown up with the show. It's not aimed solely at us however, but also at the next generation of pony fans, and it's idiotic for you all to get so pissy over it like this. You have a right to an opinion, but you don't need to come off as total flank-holes over it.
@Milante
ReplyDeleteQuote: Twilight Sparkle: "They're winter spirits that feed off fighting and hatred. The more hate the spirit feels, the colder things become!"
Does Rainbow seem a bit grabby to anyone?
ReplyDelete@Aquaman Yeah, reign it in a little there. It just means Alicorns will come around after those events. I'm sure with enough interest it may be further looked into. We -do- have a third season coming after all, and only half-way through this one.
ReplyDeleteCOME ON GUYS!!! It's a cartoon show, not an actual real, historical place that matters. Your imaginations are running away with you, and you're making this fandom a bummer by making such serious cases about things lately. Thanks!
ReplyDeleteSCOOTALOO is best pony!
(By which I mean, the cartoon pony character that is orange and purple, that doesn't really exist except for in a world of imagination, but is not living or tangible, is the best pony.)
I'm really enjoying the way this season is going, the odd low-point notwithstanding.
ReplyDeleteWhat I find interesting however is how Hearth's Warming Eve seems to count as a national holiday in of itself (unlike Christmas Eve), and not just a percursor to the following day.
After all, although Equestria was founded on what might be called Hearth's Warming Day (making it their equivilent of Independance Day), it was during the preceding night that Clover, Pansy and Cookie made their peace, thus (in my mind at least) giving birth to the Spirit/Elements of Harmony (and possibly Celestia and Luna as well).
That said - the above may be completely innacurate since the play shows Equestria being founded during what looks to be summer, with the blizzard being an unnatural phenomenon. So either;
A: Hearth's Warming Eve/Day do not celebrate the 'exact' date on which Equestria was founded, but the events are celebrated in Winter due to a thematic/metaphorical connection to the blizzard.
B: They DO fall on the date on which Equestria was founded, but during the several thousand intervening years, the seasons got thrown several months out of whack (Discord, I'm looking at you!), meaning an event originally celebrated in the summer now falls in winter.
C: There is no connection between the events and the date (and the actual Hearth's Warming holiday might be completely unrelated to Equestria's founding), but it is traditional to re-enact the story as part of the annual pagentry.
However, in terms of canon holidays now established (and assuming an Earth-like-calender) we have:
JULY 21st/22nd
Summer Sun Celebration (Summer Solstice, celebration of Celestia?)
OCTOBER 31st
Nightmare Night (Halloween, possibly the day of Luna's rebellion and the birth of Nightmare Moon)
DECEMBER 24th
Hearths Warming Eve (Christmas-equivilent, spiritual in nature, marking the 'birth' of friendship and harmony?)
DECEMBER 25th
Hearths Warming Day (uncertain, but possibly a proxy of Independance Day and the celebration of Equestria's founding?)
Non-cannonly, we may also have a celebration of the Winter Solstice in honour of Luna on December 21st/22nd - given that this is close to Hearth's Warming Eve and in the same season as Nightmare Night and the start of the New Year, it probably supports RD's description of Winter as being 'three months of awesome holidays'.
ADDENDUM
Since there's several events here related to the solar calendar, the Spring and Autumn Equinoxes might be marked as well, and since the ponies are responsible for the Seasons, the Spring Equinox (usually the 21st or 25th of March) might be a nice point, (if somewhat late in the month), on which to set Winter Wrap Up and the beginning of Spring.
Of course, take all the above head-canon with a suitably MASSIVE pinch of salt.
@milante Of course you don't. Then why such a quick decision to say 'THIS IS ALL NON-CANON OMG!!! I REFUSE IT! I'm not buying it. An interesting opinion, but proven wrong very easily.
ReplyDeleteAgain, dunno why some people are making such a big deal out of the final flag with Celestia/Luna on it, it was an unimportant detail really. The story was over, so they fast forwarded to the present day and that is what it probably looks like.
ReplyDeletePeople wondering about Luna's knowledge of Starswirl the Bearded... she probably knows him the same way Twilight knows... from books.
Side note: Pinkie & Applejack probably could've switched roles (albeit with some slightly tweaked scripting) and would've fit just as well, perhaps better.
But yeah, rather surprised how much tunnel vision some are having on the smaller and/or unimportant details that can easily be explained if you think about it.
@Aquaman52
ReplyDeleteThough I'd like Luna's line to imply her knowing Starswirl, it's never directly said, and therefore what said in the episode should probably be considered more canon.
He could be fairly young though bearded at the time of the play's story though, making it possible he eventually met Luna, depending on the duration of Discord's rule.
@ponydoraprancypants
ReplyDeleteNo wonder it's getting so cold in here...
@SingForTheMoon THANK GOD, I thought I was the only one who noticed.
ReplyDelete*brohoof*
I'll take any other comments from the rage-boner-ers as just 4chan trolls getting back to their roots. I'll just sit here and enjoy the show mae for kids/family, and not knit-pick every single little thing. AND HI DERPY!
ReplyDelete@Masquerade
ReplyDeleteBrrr!
Ponies confirmed for violient and warlike.
ReplyDeleteBest episode ever.
@Milante
ReplyDeleteI simply don't get it...
But lets go in parts:
The Windigoes are as another user said, not something that hasn't been used, or childish to use. And I must point out that although they explain that the reason they show up is the discordance between the ponies, they don't actually tell where did they really come from, as we don't know the source. It may have been from nowhere, they were born after years and years of hatred and disharmony, or some evil being could have tossed them to their lands. But the message it gives is strong and good, nothing good comes from hating each other.
Pinkie Pie... God I simply don't get it, don't you guys understand that she's representing a play? Reenacting another being? Interpreting?! You all keep referring to her as if she was Pinkie the whole episode, she put a bit of Pinkie in her character, that's for sure, but her character was unique, if you're going to criticize her, please, do referring to PUDDINGHEAD, not Pinkie Pie, the one who was over the top is Puddinghead, and not even he was over the top, after all, it's a play, for all the ponies to rejoice. So if you want to blame someone, blame whoeverpony wrote the reenactment IN the MLP world. You should try thinking outside the box.
Also, what the fuck is with your message to the FiM staff... you are NOT giving good criticism, and that kind of crap you're putting here is the one that, when continuous, brings people down. Have good points for god sake.
omg flutter u too damn cute, i eat u up. *om-nom-nom-nom-nom-nom-nom...*
ReplyDelete@Aquaman52
ReplyDeleteI don't think Luna speaks of Starswirld like she met him personaly, more like she knows who he is.
(Lore.Mod==True){also its the pre-classical era.}
I want to point out the spears, both the statue and the pegasus guards hold them, and the statue got a shield too!
Now that my long...lonnnnng ramble is out of the way, I've got to praise the genius of the writers.
ReplyDeleteI mean, they used the literary device of A PLAY to tell Equestria's history, which means that (as others have pointed out), the audience can play around with it - what we now have is a strong outline of how Equestria came to be, but various members of the fandom are surely going to soon produce BRILLIANT peices of fanart/fiction elaborating on events. The notion of the argument between the leaders being a metaphor for all-out war is intriguing, and I myself am wondering if the moment when Clover, Cookie and Pansy lit the fire of friendship is also the point when Celestia and Luna came into being.
So yes, all those raging, look at what the episode is - a narrative within a narrative, and then realise how easily it is both in giving us answers as to Equestria's history, but also allowing us leeway to play with it while opening new avenues of thought.
Few fandoms are given gifts as precious as these, from sympathetic writers.
A wonderful episode guys, and particularly fitting that the writer's name is Merriweather given the thematic device of the blizzard.
I find it interesting that the pegasi are the only ones with armed guards at the summit, Making them the predecessors of the royal guards, giving them somewhat of an old history as well.
ReplyDeleteCommander dash is best pony!!!!
ReplyDeleteCompletely unrelated, but as a Brony with a passion for trains, I really enjoyed seeing more details about the railroad link between Canterlot and Ponyville. I'm actually planning a fic set during the time when the line was being built, and this episode really gives me the itch to get down to writing it.
ReplyDeleteI love this fandom so much! (haters and trolls and ragebronys (Angronys?) aside)
Well since we now know that the Smile Smile Smile song wasn't in this episode... which episode do you think it'll be in? Or is it just a album exclusive song? :/
ReplyDeleteI wonder how long it took for Discord to come in and screw everything up from the end of the events portrayed in the play. Since it would have to go Founding-->Discord-->Celestia and Luna.
ReplyDeleteMaybe... Windigos are creations of Discord's? Either way they were pretty awesome :D
ReplyDeleteBut this provided more fanon fodder than it destroyed I believe, and was really a great episode 8D
Woo-hoo~
>Top Image: Hey Cereal! You forgot to credit the image! Here is the image in Deviant Art: http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=my%20little%20pony&order=24&offset=192#/d4jczio
ReplyDelete> first silly image: Did anyone make a "Dat Plot" image macro for that image?
> third silly image: The image says it all.
> fith silly image: Sorry about the black lines people. When I sent that to Equestria Daily, I forgot to edit out the lines xp.
> Derpy: GLORIOUS 1080P DERPY!
There is some things this post did not mention, example being 11th doctor pony is in the episode. Overall, a pretty interesting follow up.
"the voice acting was spot-on the entire time"
ReplyDeleteUmm, excuse me?
Yes, voice-acting was ALMOST flawless, but only ALMOST, not COMPLETELY flawless. A few examples, based on this upload: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me8OjUh35lE&hd=1
0:26-0:29 I can't find Pinkie's line convincing enough.
2:47-2:53 She totally failed "Ah, my hair" part.
3:17-3:20 Twilight's "PIIIINKIEEE" (reused from The Ticket Master, by the way) sounds completely out of place there.
It may be nitpicking, but you just can't honestly tell me that it was spot-on the ENTIRE time.
@NorwegianView
ReplyDeleteThere are a few possibilities, provided that the depiction of Starswirl as Clover's mentor is historically accurate:
- Luna and Celestia existed at the time the play depicts, but stayed out of the affairs of regular ponies. They would, however, entertain the company of powerful magicians such as Starswirl.
It is possible that Luna and Celestia felt that most ponies were unworthy of their attention back then and something later on allowed for a change of heart.
- Starswirl managed to live through these events and Discord's rule (he may have found a way to prolong his life through magic) and thus was present for the arrival of the princesses.
- Luna read about Starswirl in books, just like Twilight. 1000 years ago he may have still been well remembered by ponykind.
@Tokyo Oranges
ReplyDeleteI have contemplated this idea quite extensively, although there's no way to prove it, I would love it if it was that way. Though it would show Discord way more evil than he actually made me feel he was. I mean I always had that feeling that he wasn't all that bad, just kind of, idk, a playful bastard that crossed a thin line between joke and hurt.
But I digress, NICE EPISODE YOU GUYS!
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ReplyDelete@Al_Skylark
ReplyDeleteand
@SkyForce
In the real-world, the wendigo was a person transformed into an ice giant after they'd resorted to cannibalism - a serious fear in the harsh and snowy north where the myth developed.
Well, they did say the ponies couldn't grow any food... not sure that's what the crew had in mind.
As I said before... my favourite episode of S2! The story was great and Pinkie extremely funny.
ReplyDeleteFluttertrees everywhere are being senselessly turned into writing utensils. Please stop the abuse of Fluttertrees.
ReplyDeleteFor all of you who liked this episode, but had gripes with Mare Do-Well, I think you owe Merriwether Williams an apology.
ReplyDeleteIt was on my top 5 too Cereal. Awesome episode!
ReplyDelete@GardBreaker As much as I would love to see Discord again, using him again would have been repetitive, and adding Windigo's instead made my day! More mythological creatures in Equestria is more awesome in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteI really liked the episode overall, somehow all the ancient Pegasi make me think of is Life of Brian though.
ReplyDelete"What have the Pegasi ever done for us?"
"it says Rainbowdash go home"
For those who don't get it.
and number two.
(If I wrote about everything liked my comment would be long enough to send itself to the moon.)
Now lets hope I havent derped the link again.
For those who didn't liked the episode, or are being waaaaaaaay to critic about the episode please read the following:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.equestriadaily.com/2011/12/pre-episode-pony-service-announcement.html
We can't be such douches complaining about everything, the clones, the canon/fanon.
@Celestia
ReplyDeleteRomanes Eunt Domus?
I loved everything about the episode.
ReplyDeleteAlthough the mane 6's excitement about going to Canterlot seemed ...anachronistic?
I still wanna know more about alicorns and Discord, but I don't mind them not being in the episode, especially with so many funny moments.
@Celestia
ReplyDeleteI see...
AHA! The Canterlot castle depiction of Celestia and Luna is identical to the ones on the flag http://i.imgur.com/gNHDS.png
ReplyDeletewow, lots of bickering..... and why is there suddenly snow?
ReplyDeleteI thought it was a fun episode. And for me, this is one of my favorite Pinkie episodes. She was just hilarious during the play. Not sure why everypony is getting uptight over it... She was playing a part. But, she's already silly and random so she played it well.
*WE GET IT, MOVE ON!*
Oh...right...
Derpy was funny too, waving at the audience..even those who sit behind the 4th wall. I d'awwed when she was told to leave, she looked so sad.
And I guess Applejack is now a cookie
Those plotholes :D
ReplyDeleteBut I don't care :p
@Arcticwlf
ReplyDeleteI honestly think people went apeshit with Mare-Do-Well's episode, I thought it was a GREAT episode :/
People just like to rejoice in negative criticism.
@Al_Skylark
ReplyDeleteActually, no, we don't have to regard the play as canon. Fair's fair - if we're allowed to say Pudding Head is just a role, we're allowed to believe the rest of the play is equally inaccurate.
And let's be clear, if the play were really meant to be canon history, the pony world just got depressingly dumb. Of course, I think it's clear the writers didn't intend that at all. They're just trying to tell a good story.
Can't say the story was to my taste; I prefer the character-oriented approach of "Bird in the Hoof". But I was certainly entertained for 30 minutes, and I know my favorite stuff will come around in time. Patience, guys.
@Jimperator
ReplyDeletePegasi called Rainbowdash they go the house?
I need to go find The Life of Brian now.
@Celestia
ReplyDeleteThe line "WE GET IT, MOVE ON!" reminds me of "GET ON WITH IT!" from a scene in Monty Python and The Holy Grail.
I think I'm the only one who say Derpy on the train. Shame :/
ReplyDelete@SuperIGothacked
ReplyDeleteNope, I saw her too! Feel the love
@ZuTheSkunk
ReplyDeleteThis makes me want to post a Picard facepalm. Jesus there's nipicking and then there's nitpicking. The only one of your snips that (only in my opinion of course) has any legtimancy is the re using of Twilight's Ticket Master Line.
But really, 15 seconds of perceived flubs is so important to you that you have to dedicate an entire post to it while responding to another poster in an obnoxiously condescending manner?
Needless to say (and from this point my post is no longer directed at you) I've been thoroughly disgusted by a vocal minority of Bronies this season. The whining self righteous attitude that always rages forth with each new episode really has to go. Every episode is going to have its detractors and most of them state their opinion in reasonable cool ways. But god damn are the whiners that just bitch and moan every episode annoying. *steps off soapbox* Wow I didn't think i was gonna start ranting.
Wendigos actually come from native american legends: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendigo
ReplyDeleteAs someone said on ponibooru, there are two theories about that history.
ReplyDeleteA. It was slight metaphor/truth. Ponies were divided, and some events (war, or maybe real demons) made them run away and seek for new land. they found it but still had to rebuild civilisation/defeat demons. So they unite. And the flag represent that union. Discord showed up later, as alicorns (maybe he created them for lulz; maybe ponies created them to help; maybe they just show up)
B
It was strong metaphor. The events can be conluded as chaos, can't they? Chaos, disharmony, hate. Discord. The creation of 'new world" is just intervention of alicorns. 'Defeat of demons" is just fight between them and Discord. That explains flag.
Either way, Hasbro is smart. Every fanfic, idea is still possible. We have only holes, and everyone can belive in what he wants. And be creative.
@Captian64
ReplyDeleteIt is similar, infact it's already been done.
Here.
And about, where Discord came from... Maybe he was created by disharmony between ponies? He should rule frome very beginning, as Celestia said, but it don't have to be literally him.
ReplyDeleteWith the name of Pudding Head, I saw it more of an insult as written by Applejack's character's memoirs.
ReplyDeleteI liked the episode. To me I saw it as a retelling of the nation's founding. Obviously committing some parts in order to tone down for the audience (both the Ponies and little children) so either they left things out on ourpose, or it was lost to the mists of time
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ReplyDelete@WhitFox
ReplyDeleteI never said the play itself was canon, but the episode. The history that the play tells is canon, how is told, it's up to you to interpret.
A play is not supposed to be 100% accurate, and it's main purpose is to ENTERTAIN, so it's just logic to suppose that maaaaany details of what really happened, were skip when the ponies adapted History for a play. Especially for a traditional play everypony looks forward to. It'll be fun, and dramatic, like plays are irl. In that way, the writter did an AWESOME job.
Also, yes, we're allowed to say Puddinghead is a role for Pinkie, but it was also a real character, and by the way it's depicted we can say it was random and crazy as well. Inaccurate or not it's up to your imagination. I think the whole story behind the play was accurate, and that they just added fun parts, or made it less dramatic than it actually was.
I mean, imagine real ponies starving, they wouldn't have much time to argue and jump around. But I'd say if you try to imagine the whole play in a more grimdark and serious way, you'd see a quite accurate depiction of the history of Equestria.
Then again, this last thing was just my opinion.
Seth added the last captioned picture after I was done, by the way. I know what race Discord is!
ReplyDelete@Peter
ReplyDeleteThat's because you were thinking INside the box! You've got to think inside the CHIMNEY.
After looking em up on wikipedia I found those WINDingos were a lot less malevolent than the ones in the actual Algonquian myths, yet they fit perfectly for that kind of role: "Wendigos were embodiments of gluttony, greed, and excess"
ReplyDeleteNaturally the later doesn't quite apply as much... but they certainly weren't possessing ponies and turning them into cannibals either...
@Celestia
ReplyDeleteI have both Life of Brian and Holy Grail next to me on the bookshelf I've converted into a DVD shelf (Sorry Twilight!). But ya know I still haven't gotten around to buying Meaning of Life... Gotta remedy that.
Now I best be off before Miss Sparkle decides to drop Tom on my head, a la the stoning scene.
I think there's a big difference between saying "Pinkie exaggerated her role as Puddinghead" and "NOTHING IN THE PLAY WAS CANON." At that point, you're basically just saying "anything I dislike isn't really part of the show." I mean, I really disliked May the Best Pet Win, but I'm not going to pretend it didn't exist.
ReplyDeleteLike any folklore tale, I'm sure details are exagerrated or changed over what "really" happened, but it's pretty obvious that the main purpose of this episode is to give the viewer Equestria's backstory, and there's no reason to believe it didn't do that.
Oh and incidentally, this episode pretty much demolishes any possibility for one of my fanfics to fit in with canon, and I don't mind in the least. The episode was that good. :)
And the Windigos? Coolest looking monsters I've ever seen on the show.
@Cereal Velocity
ReplyDeleteHI CEREAL
I love that the Earth Pony nation was named... Earth! XD
ReplyDeleteBut now I am up for a lot of random speculation about EQUESTRIA= Post-apocalypse EARTH OMG :O
Oh also: "They were strongly associated with the WINTER, the North, and COLDNESS, as well as with FAMINE and STARVATION."
ReplyDeleteWhich also fits quite well.
@Danfish77
ReplyDeleteActually I think it's Urf or something like that...
@Nubnuber
ReplyDeleteThis is one reason I really like this series. Instead of inventing their own weird-assed creatures like grundles, troggles and bushwoolies they tend to adapt various creatures from 'existing mythology'. (exception being the Parasprites and Diamond Dogs, but they were pretty cool)
Chancellor Puddinghead is best pony
ReplyDelete@SuperIGothacked but did you see her at the end, backstage? :3
ReplyDelete@Sorrowful
ReplyDeleteOh! Grundle Land! ;_;
@TB3
ReplyDeleteAutumn Equinox=Running of the Leaves?
- Fedge's Top 5 Episodes of Season 2 -
ReplyDelete#1 - Hearth's Warming Eve
#2 - The Return of Harmony
#3 - Sisterhooves Social
#4 - Luna Eclipsed
#5 - May the Best Pet Win!
This episode easily makes it to the top of my list. It had the perfect balance of comedy and story. I'm also a sucker for christmas type episodes as well as backstory; I love me some backstory. :)
Here's my take on the whole thing: Six ponies alone in a dark cave. Three hate each other and are frozen solid. Three who bear no ill will are almost frozen but the power of friend"ship" prevails. From both groups, each is from one tribe. An Alicorn could be interpreted as the combination of all three races.
ReplyDelete.......gigiddy?
Seeing the reaction towards this episode, I think Merriweather Williams (new writer, wrote this episode) regained some reputation after The Mysterious Mare Do well gained lots of hatred from the fandom, which is good thing to hear :).
ReplyDeleteI for one, didin't like this episode, nor have I liked much of season 2 so far, (I guess it's personal problem since everyone else seems to like Season 2 episodes).
@DarthVader I just love to nitpick, and I can't do anything about it. *Derpyshrug*
ReplyDeleteI wasn't trying to be sarcastic/ironic/obnoxiously something/whatever, I just wrote what I thought in the first form that came to my mind. If it was one of the above - sorry for that.
This was a great episode!I really want to know how and when princess Celestia contributes.And where do alicorn originate.
ReplyDeleteEquestria - Be friends, or die a horrible, frozen death.
ReplyDeleteMy take:
ReplyDelete-- it was a good episode.
-- Twilight, Applejack and Fluttershy melting the ice with Friendship and harmony was the high point. The animation and voices were top notch, as always. I like the song.
-- The episode will have the least effect on character development in the series as the mane six were stage actors for most of the episode. Similarly, statements about the nature of Equestria in a historical setting are suspect, to whit: the world is round.
-- This history made no mention of the Royal Pony Sisters or of Discord, leaving imagined off-canon history largely unscathed.
-- Behaviour of the mane six may seem spot-on or exaggerated because Merriweather appears to be using the mane cast as illustrations to be learned from, not as characters with flaws learning to overcome their flaws. Merriweather's approach is the least likely to change the character of the protagonists and simplifies the task of making the stories written by several different writers compatible. It is also consistent with the desire of Hasbro to make each episode stand alone and thus largely interchangeable. Unfortunately, character development is a part of the show that appeals to many of us. It's like we are being served Gilligan's Island when we expected House.
-- Since the characters don't grow, there is no letter to the Princess reporting on a lesson learned about friendship.
@Pyrobug
ReplyDeleteActually the made a point in the very last scene (a point which they have made in a few other episodes) that it's okay to squabble and have disagreements between friends, so long as you have a warm heart free of prejudice and grudges.
@Fedge
ReplyDeleteFor the entire series so far:
#1. Sisterhooves Social
#2. Winter Wrap-Up
#3. Sweet and Elite
#4. Dragonshy
#5. Suited For Success
Hearthswarming was very good, and MIGHT make the top 10 if I gave it some thought.
Ahhyes, it shows up more and more now. The trolls are all home for Christmas Break. Be strong everypony, after the New Year, the Paraspriting talk will calm down again. 'You don't like my comments because they don't agree with you.' Might be the response from them but, I don't like your comments because you are critiqing a KIDS SHOW like it's a major adult production. Is mine. Lighten up!
ReplyDeleteAlso! Alicorn = Earth Pony + Pegasus + Unicorn, right? We sure saw three different ponies come together there. Just chill and enjoy the show.
@frith
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure it is fair to judge Merriweather William's approach to MLP based on two episodes, especially since one is about the characters putting on a play. I'm not directly familiar with her work from other shows, though. Is lack of meaningful character development something she's known for?
The historical elements were interesting to see, and it was nice to have Star Swirl's position on the timeline fixed.
ReplyDelete( See a tentative timeline I mocked up here: http://www.ponibooru.org/post/view/99734 )
And I do agree that the Alicorns on the banner were obviously the Luna/Celestia from the S2E1 stained glass, but also that it could just be a modern flag. It *really* oughtn't be getting this much scrutiny.
That said, I thought that the aesop in this episode was a little heavy-hooved; as said above, "stay friends or you will freeze to death." Other lessons have been far less anvilicious, even with a narrated "what I learned" letter.
The episode was funny and enjoyable, but the "mane six are bickering" sideplot felt a little tacked-on - most likely as an unavoidable side-effect of the limited runtime.
@TB3 OK for the cannon holidays, just that there is no reason for the dates for Heart's Warming and Nightmare Night to fall on Christian holidays. is there? Apart from convienience. And you missed the Running of the Leaves. ^_^
ReplyDeleteWhat to call Luna's night holiday?
@Milante
ReplyDeleteThe reason the Windigos act like they do is because that's how they acted in mythology. They were evil spirits that caused suffering because they wanted to, they didn't need a specific purpose to do so. So in this aspect, the writers were being mythologically accurate.
As for the alicorns, their role was stated in S2E1. Discord clearly appeared after the events of this play, and his rule would have destroyed(likely killed off) the ruling family/families of the old kingdom. Discord wasnt able to be dealt with until the arrival of Celestia and Luna.
As for the sun/moon, the alicorns likely took over this role so the unicorns could spend their time and energy on other things. Since the unicorn's role was the sun and moon, it probably took the whole tribe effort to keep the two in balance. Another reasoning could be that the unicorns somehow lost that ability due to Discord's interference.
Grimdark confirmed canon.
ReplyDeleteI mean seriously, ponies eating their hats because of lack of food?
Grimdark history confirmed.
justkiddng.jpg
Grimdark confirmed canon.
ReplyDeleteI mean seriously, ponies eating their hats because of lack of food?
Grimdark history confirmed.
justkiddng.jpg
@Saddlesoap
ReplyDeleteNice work on the timeline! Like I said above, I disagree that the moral is "stay friends or you will freeze to death." The moral was that hatred, bigotry, and selfish-pride always feed on themselves and hurt everyone, whether individuals or nations. The sideplot was meant to tone down the heavy handedness by illustrating that some bickering is ok, so long as you don't let it get in the way of your friendship.
@WhitFox I took the play at face value. It's a play, actors are 'larger than life' to get the point across. Exageration is part of that territory.
ReplyDelete@Jigglysaint Next thing you're going to tell me is that all three foaled Princess ponies 11 months later, and one of the foals was Nyx? Or Discord?
ReplyDeleteThe animation in the Windigo's appearance was pretty nifty. It kinda reminds me of the style in Zelda: Wind Waker.
ReplyDelete@Shiranai You are right, I am trying to draw a straight line using only two data points. I am not familiar with Merriweather's other scripts. But I still think my explaination best describes what I've seen so far in MLP:FIM. It gives Merriweather good reasons for the scripts as we've seen them so far.
ReplyDelete@EonMaster
ReplyDeletePerhaps not the whole tribe, but possibly a group of their most wizened and powerful (such as Starswirl the Bearded).
@frith
ReplyDeleteBy "good reasons" I meant sound reasons. Defendable reasons.
While I agree that Pinkie was awesome in this episode, I think Applejack also deserves credit for playing a wonderful straightpony to Pinkie's raving insanity.
ReplyDeleteMaybe that was the real Equestria flag. Maybe the royal sisters were mythological symbols first. Then when the ponies called out in need during Discord's reign of terror, the symbols on the flag CAME TO LIFE. :)
ReplyDeleteMaybe that was the original flag, but it just represented unity between the three tribes. Then later, during a crisis (probably during Discord's reign), the ponies collectively wished for a savior, and their wishes resonated with the magic of Equestria and brought the royal sisters into being. Ponies created them, not the other way around; they're not so much gods but protector spirits, born of the magic in each pony's heart and taking a familiar form already present in the mind of every pony.
ReplyDelete@PopeHatSkeleton
ReplyDeleteThe only problem with this theory is that it won't explain Princess Cadence if she shows up in the show.
@Shiranaimaybe, but enough of them that it was their tribe's main purpose.
ReplyDeleteOn an interesting note, the Pegusi were the only ones to be shown to be living well-off before the blizzard. The earth ponies and unicorns were shown to have heavy bags under their eyes from lack of sleep and having a lot hard work, yet the Pegusi were fine. They also wore armor and togas while the other two wore capes or ragged clothing.
"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
ReplyDeleteIf it was a good enough moral for Benjamin Franklin and the American Revolution, it's a good enough moral for Caneighdian ponies, founding a new confederation of united tribes.
Unfortunately, it seems like later on, they got a bad case of the Children of Israel wanting a king. (Possibly in self-defense against unicorns having a king.) Electing good-looking Discord War heroes to be their king (like Saul, like Celestia and Luna) would be pretty logical for this.
@EonMaster
ReplyDeleteThe pegasi seemed to have a culture more closely based off of ancient Greece or Rome. Even in modern Equestria, their architecture appears to be more of that style. Rainbow Dash' reaction to her costume at the beginning was an obvious reference to the movie Gladiator.
what was realy good is the fact the main cast got equal amounts of camera time and they lerned a lesson together without one being in the lead, witch is a refeshing change.
ReplyDeleteCelestia and Luna came to stop Discord... and since I never saw a Discord, then this was a LONG time ago.
ReplyDeleteThe events in the play supposedly happened long before Celestia and Luna took control. However, Twilight's character says Starswirl the Bearded was her teacher, and on Nightmare Night Luna seemed to have known Starswirl personally.
ReplyDeleteTherefore, Celestia and Luna hanged around ponies for at least a few hundred years before becoming rulers of ponies and celestial objects. Doesn't explain why they are in the first flag of Equesteria, but they were around.
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ReplyDeleteSo if ponies founded Equestria, when do Celestia and Luna take over?
ReplyDeleteIt's certainly one of my favorite episodes now. I figured it would be though. I love Holiday specials, especially Christmas ones.
ReplyDeleteI absolutely loved Pinkie and Applejack through out the episode. They were absolutely hilarious together. Then again, all of the mane six were pretty funny towards the other on their "team".
The Derpy appearance made me smile. It was so cute and silly. :)
As for the flag, which seems to be one of the hotter debates concerning this episode, I still believe that's meant to be Luna and Celestia on it. Com'on, the colors might not be spot on. But a blue and a white Alicorn flying around a sun and moon? That's a bit too similar to be coincidence I think. Then again, it might just be a case of something that wasn't really pondered over a lot beforehand. Not everything can just be explained away. The show has tight deadlines, and sometimes a little inconsistency can slip through the cracks. There's many different ways you can interpret it. It not actually being the princesses on the flag, them not actually being around yet, them being somewhere else around this period, etc. Remember, it is a children's show and as such, not every tiny bit of info is going to fall perfectly into place. Whatever the case may be with it though, I still enjoyed the episode far too much to really care about a silly flag.
The Wendigo's were pretty cool. Another mystical creature put into the show. I knew the name sounded familiar when I heard it, but had to look it up afterwards to refresh my memory.
I see people are also complaining and debating about the play itself. Oi. Well, we can't say for certain how much of it is really myth and how much is actual fact to them. It's most likely a mixture of both though, as is with most old civilizations. Can't we just enjoy the show and try to not nitpick every single tiny detail? I know, I know... but I can dream, right? lol
I think it would actually make sense -and also be pretty cool- that the national anthem of Equestria was, in fact, a (perhaps glorified) carol. National anthems generally are about the values and morals that drive the creation of a country or shape their people's beliefs and that song was exactly about that.
ReplyDeleteIf sometime in the series someone said that was, in fact, the national anthem I would be totally OK with that.
Anthropony, I'm gonna have to disagree with your interpretations this time. We haven't seen any direct evidence that Celestia and Luna were alive during the events depicted in the play. There's no reason to assume Luna knew Starswirl personally -- she merely knew that he had bells on his costume, but that's something Twilight also knew, so it must be part of the historical record. So they both watch the History Channel, I guess!
ReplyDeleteThe play also makes it clear that the sun and moon were already controlled by the unicorns during this time period. If the unicorns were doing that, then what would Celestia and Luna be doing? What would their cutie marks even mean?
As for the flag, I agree with the others who think it was an anachronism -- and it only appeared on the stage, not in the "flashback" part of the story. It's a modern flag, not a flag that would have actually been used at the founding of Equestria.
My idea for a while has been that Celestia and Luna were deliberately created, via magic spells, to be Equestria's rulers. I can't prove that theory (and there are a few other possibilities), but I'm glad this episode didn't punch any holes in it.
@Sourcils
ReplyDeleteAbout Pinkie Pie. That wasn't her. She was acting as Pudding Head, who as the name implies probably isn't that bright, or really like pudding either way. So while it has Pinkie's Flare it is just the way she is playing the character. Got to remember this is a play.
@Maquabra +1.
ReplyDeleteNot sure I would go so far as to say it was the worst episode ever.. I will watch all the season 1 episodes over and over except the 2nd Cutie Mark Crusader one, where they mix up the roles and get 1st place for comedy. But it was pretty bad, in my humble (and honest) opinion.
Granted, I expected something akin to Winter Wrap Up, and was sorely disappointed there. No music in the episode until the very end? No letter to Celestia? *Shakes head* And Twilight's not even worried about going back to magic kindergarten.
My final comment is to all those who are asking about Celestia and Luna. I recently re-watched the Discord episodes, and Celestia says flat out that Discord was causing trouble a thousand-ish years ago and that she and Luna used the Elements of Harmony to encase him in stone and that was the start of their reign. My understanding is that the history in this episode happened first, that the Unicorns were controlling the sun and moon (maybe the royal line of the Unicorns) and all the stuff in Hearth Warming Eve happened.. then at some later date Discord tried to take over, just as he did at the start of season 2. Celestia and Luna stopped him, became co-rulers, and thus the timeline is safe once more.
It would have been kind of neat to see the mane 6 play opposite of what they actually did. (Fluttershy being the leader and RD being the passive one. Or Pinkie being the sarcastic "straight man" to Apple Jack's randomoness" ....just for the sake of variety...after all, they WERE acting.
ReplyDeleteOther than that random though, I thought that episode was good. Not my favorite, but enjoyable one I'd definitely rewatch.
It just hit me... In Luna Eclipsed Twilight said that book that mentioned Starswirl was about obscure unicorn history. Think about it. It is specifically called "unicorn history", because Equestria didn't yet exist and Starswirl was a citizen of Unicorn Kingdom.
ReplyDeleteContinuity yay!
Am I the only one curious about the mentioned but not seen "Unicorn King"?
ReplyDeleteWhy he was not present for example?
I didn't think that was the National anthem?
ReplyDeleteI still think its a charol
@Octavia
ReplyDeleteI'm totally with you really :/
It's a favor you'd to yourself to not be so damn nitpicky and just sit back and relax watching the ponies.
But nope, they have to destroy the show, and if it keeps going they won't enjoy any single episode anymore, and end up going back to whatever they did before ponies...
Sigh. It's a tad sad when you think of all the cases of people who got cured of depressions and stuff like that thanks to the show :1
What I liked about this particular episode is the flexibility it creates for the rest of pony history. Although it shows exactly how Equestria was founded, it still leaves lots of room for speculation on how everything else fell into place; Discord, Celestia, Luna, etc...
ReplyDeleteI also REALLY liked Fluttershy throughout the entire episode for some reason. No idea why, because she is usually a character I don't tend to notice unless she's at the forefront. Must have been something to do with the timing of her lines.
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ReplyDelete@NorwegianView
ReplyDeleteBecause ponies live in matriarchat society and his role is purely decorative.