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Author: The Descendant
Description: When Spike returns home early from a gathering he sees something that causes him to go running from their little home...the sight of Twilight and Caramel together.The Talk Part 1
Once Twilight finds him, shivering and cold, she decides to try to address his fears...by giving him The Talk.
But, to Twilight's surprise, it may not be a talk about basic biology that Spike needs...perhaps something far more important is on his mind.
The Talk Part 2
Additional Tags: In truth, it goes poorly....
66 comments:
Additional tags FTW!!!
ReplyDeleteI have a bad feeling about this.
ReplyDeleteJust this once I am posting with nothing real to say in order to get a post before dozens of others
ReplyDeleteWait a second......."The Talk"......Spike's basic biology.........O_O
ReplyDeleteTwilight and Caramel is one of my favourite shippings
ReplyDeleteHa, that's adorable. A straight Twilight Sparkle, how novel.
ReplyDeleteI read on DA when it first went up. Read it, it's excellent.
ReplyDeleteSPIKE GETS "THE FALK" FROM TWILIGHT!!!! AHAHAHA!!!! WHY HASN'T THIS BEEN DONE SOONER?! Lololol.......!!!
ReplyDelete(inb4 all the "this is a kid's show!!" comments"
Derp. I meant to say "The Talk"
ReplyDeleteAww......Spike is really concerned for Twilight..... :)
ReplyDeleteGood fic, by the way. Laughable topic, yet filled with D'aaaww
Hoo boy. This should be interesting...
ReplyDelete@Milante it sure is
ReplyDeleteOh gosh. I have contradicting feelings about this...
ReplyDeleteBoring. At least part one. It wasn't goo enough to read the 2nd part.
ReplyDelete@Maquabra I agree, definitely not enough goo.
ReplyDeleteOh, wait. My comment above sounds worse than I intended it to. It's a decent pony reading and kinda interesting topic. Definitely more for pegasisters than bronies. Well written but without anything extra that makes you wish that you could read faster or bawwww at the end that there is nothing more left to read.
ReplyDeletetl;dr
Decent but nothing special.
Pre-readers need to tighten their writing standards a bit, IMO.
ReplyDelete"Out in the market square the sleeting drizzle was parted by something unseen, and as a pale blue filament of light wrapped around within itself it suddenly exploded outwards in an orb of illumination that revealed the outlines of two figures."
"He opened one eye and regarded Spike sorrowfully as he sighed."
"The stallion smiled back at him, the relief across the deeply lined face of the aged unicorn evident even as he blinked and the traces of white grew in his beard."
That's all within the first few paragraphs.
"Fifteen minutes earlier, a decidedly different atmosphere had held dominion over the interior of the library."
ReplyDeleteI had to add that one.
... And then NOTHING sexual happens.
ReplyDeleteI don't know why this is so low rated at the moment. I thought this was a really genuine, believable story with a few awesome metaphors to boot. A nice slice of life tale with a d'aww moment at the end that makes some of the more confusing stylistic choices worth it.
ReplyDeleteHell, as far as quality goes, this is one of the better ones that has been posted on EqD. Some stuff that passes through leaves me genuinely concerned about the literary merits of the pre-readers.
The core concept and situation have merit, but personally I found the whole thing lackluster and slightly fumbling.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed it. The moment I saw "Well of Souls" I immediately realized this was the same guy who wrote "Cup of Joe", one of my favorite fics.
ReplyDeleteGood read.
@Cold in Gardez
ReplyDeleteWell I might break up some of the sentences, though I can't see a problem. This is probably some of the better prose styling I've seen in these fan fics. (Of course I've only read the first few paragraphs.)
Aw. That was adorable and really well done...
ReplyDeleteThe Descendant just tends to be much more descriptive in his well, descriptions, and has a different style from most fanfic writers.
ReplyDeleteI too see nothing wrong with the sentences you highlighted Cold.
@Cold in Gardez
ReplyDeleteI see absolutely nothing wrong with these sentences. I'm not even joking - read in one go from end to finish, they're logical and read well.
Also, how the hell is this at 3.6? This story is fantastic, and the fact that it's fighting to be above three stars is horrible.
ReplyDeleteOf course it was uncomfortable, that talk always is. What made the story was that it wasn't the mechanics- the writer intimated that Spike had knowledge of them. It wasn't some kind of misplaced crush. It was genuine love and caring for someone very special to him, and there sure ain't nuthin' wrong with that.
ReplyDelete@The Old Dog Which is great, but the author seemed to spread awkward tendrils through the whole fic. Especially dialogue seemed strained and unnatural. Room to improve
ReplyDeleteDefinitely 3/5
At first I was deeply concerned with the lack of a comedy tag, but read anyway. Long story short (PUNS) I am very glad I did so.
ReplyDeleteWow, this is getting slammed for some reason by people. I disagree with those who would say it is for pegasisters more than bronies. It's for everyone. It's a tale of maturity, and I found it very well written.
ReplyDeleteGrammar-wise, there were some awkward sentences, but on the whole it was a welcome change from the majority of fan-fiction I read.
As for people saying the dialogue was stilted and uncomfortable? I saw greater flow in the conversations here than I see in about 90% of fanfiction. Serious scenes are HARD to write, and can often be uncomfortable and NATURALLY stilted. This nailed it, in my opinion.
Truly good job to the author.
NORMAL? Lolwut? If it's a normal fic, I have no clue what it's going to be.
ReplyDeletewho the heck is Caramel, and why is he nailing Twilight. You're well on your way to becoming the Sonic fanbase EqD.
ReplyDelete@Maquabra; Really? More for pegasisters than bronies? I thought we stopped labeling subjects (or if we should go for your comment, quality) by genders when we started watching cartoon ponies made for little girls
ReplyDelete/Still refusing to calling myself a pegasister
@UrdnotHex
ReplyDeleteHave you even read it mate? This has nothing to do any sort of shipping.
Uh.. okay i hope that i don’t end up sounding really harsh and critical. I’ll just throw in my ideas for improvement. I found it to be rather exaggerated and overly dramatic. The plot has got very, very few twists, and the writing style is highly repetitive, making the story boring as a whole.
ReplyDeleteI’ll start from the beginning and work down from there
The 4th para “Out in the market square the sleeting...” confused me a bit. It took me a while to work out that it was a teleport spell. Minor issue here though
It’s good that you chose harsh weather for this story. It does make it better than just having a fine, completely normal, boring day. It also gives you something to write about, no fun writing about fine weather. However, you certainly went overboard in the weather description. It was brought up again and again in a repetitive way. The word “sleet” keeps appearing over and over again. I must emphasise that there is really a lot of repetition in this story. For example: Chapter 2: “she forced her expression to soften...” and then, just a few lines below that, “..as she forces her face to become softer...” The phrase “Oh Celestia, oh Luna” is overused and used inappropriately. It makes things sound too exaggerated. Its fine for that stretch in chapter one, it’s okay even when you used it for both Spikes and Twilight’s perspectives along that chapter, because i think you were intentionally trying to show the similarities in thoughts. But then you used it again in chapter 2...
The overall flow of the plot till about halfway through chapter one is pretty decent. There was some buildup of the plot along this stretch. It makes people go like: oh cool now what will happen? I wanna read about what happens!
But after that is gradually becomes more and more boring. Spike was way too dramatic. I can’t imagine that he’ll overreact to such an extent. Also, there was too much description on spike’s thoughts, some parts could be removed or shortened. I kinda lost a bit of interest by this part.
Moving on the Chapter 2. Again the problem here is that there are just too many thoughts going on in Twilight. Of course there this would be the case. But there needs to be a more succinct way of conveying the awkwardness that Twilight was going through than to ramble on like that. The metaphor on the soldiers would sound like a good idea but it wasn’t really brought in nicely. Either that or it just didn’t fit in the context. Instead of spicing up the story, it did... quite the opposite, frankly. The plot was getting really boring at this stage. Okay, sure there was a slight twist in that Spike WASN’T ignorant about the birds and the bees, but it didn’t have a very big “Whoa i didn’t see that coming” type of effect. Spike was also way out of character, he was behaving way too maturely, and sometimes he seemed to be speaking as though he was older than Twilight.
Um.. yea so this is just my opinion after trying to figure out why i didn’t like the story. It took me a while to pinpoint what i thought i disliked about it anyway. I’m not trying to be harsh or anything, just offering where to improve on.
Oh my, looks like normal isn't the entire story, this is more like..."Growing Up"? Hmm... well,
ReplyDeleteI really liked this story. It was Awkward in a completely justified way.
ReplyDeleteTo me it wasn't very boring the scenes with him shivering in the cold were very intense for me because spike is a dragon. Cold Blooded, I got the impression that if he didn't return home soon he would die.
Secondly I feel that some are assuming this is some sort of ship fic based on the description. It isn't. I hope the author submits a new one.
Thirdly. This is a very emotionally charged story, spike trying to defend Twilight and showing how much he cares for her.
In summary this story is highly emotionally charged. The Characters act awkward but in a human way. And it's simply daww tastic near the end.
I agree however in that some of the descriptions are unnecessary and it is a tad over-dramatic but the emotion covers that up nicely in my opinion.
I liked the story, but one thing bothers me:
ReplyDeleteWhat's the whole summoner/designate thing about? It's not really explained
Loved it. Twilight felt very much in character, and we get to see the genuine concern in Spike and Twilight's father (Mr. Nightlight, I think?).
ReplyDeleteTouching and mostly well-written. A couple of minor errors that can be forgiven, for the good outweighs the bad.
Well done, author.
This is just... so badly written...
ReplyDeleteOh god, the structuring...
I felt like I was reading a Frank Miller novel post-crazy. Like, this read like The Dark Knight Returns or something. Ponies repeating themselves for no reason, the obsession of love over sex, the complete dismissal of the idea of casual sex, the just... blatant... ugh.
Made me sick to read.
@The Uncanny Poster.
ReplyDeleteFor one thing, I found it all-around funny. If I'm completely honest, you just seem to not like the idea of someone thinking people should actually love each other to have sex. And upon reading anything disagreeing with you, you get sickened.
Oh, bronies...
@Chip
ReplyDeleteAdmittedly, the closed-mindedness did put me off, but the real cincher was the writing. It was, without a doubt, the WORST writing I've read outside of a paraspritefic. Repeated phrases, nonsensical jumps, lack of clarity and flow, rushed pace, just...
UGH.
Don't really like this kind of fan fic.
ReplyDelete@The Uncanny Poster.
ReplyDeleteHoo boy. How, precisely, did it have a lack of flow? I... I don't even know where to start on that one, except to ask what exactly do you read? Sure, I'd say that there are published works from famous authors that have better flow, but I find that few fanfic authors even know what flow is!
Anyway, I have no idea how to address the rest of your post as it will simply make me lash out in fury at your nonsensical ramblings.
*ahem* Good day to you, sir.
@Milante
ReplyDeleteThis fic was pretty much the definition of purple prose. I'm frankly surprised it made it past the pre-readers.
Its current rating is generous.
I loved this story. Lots of fun character stuff. And what's all this about close mindedness? Did you guys just forget about Twilight being, 'It's my body and I'll do what I want' or what?
ReplyDelete@Milante
ReplyDeleteNot being a published work is no excuse to ignore something as crucial as flow. This story jumped tracks like a train with hydraulics.
As for the rest of your post, I'll just mock you mercilessly.
"I liked this and I don't like that you have a different opinion, but I can't back up my own opinion so I'm going to pretend that your nonexistant logical flaws are obvious to be aloof."
Grow up.
I'm amazed this isn't a clopfic.
ReplyDeleteSounds like it could either be really funny, or cringe-inducingly bad.
I might just have to read this to find out...
This fic is clearly a cut above the usual EqD fare. It takes a brave position of a topic not often broached in stories, it gives an interesting subversion that respects the intelligence of the characters involved, it both hides and expresses clearly a unique perspective of Spike's slanted maturity... and it gets slated because of it.
ReplyDeleteEqD, I am disappoint.
Close mindedness about casual sex, indeed. Try letting go of the idea that the author is pushing an agenda, and consider the context of the story.
Perhaps Twilight herself has beliefs about that topic, that perhaps, as an introvert and as a relatively sheltered only child as presented here, she might not exactly be inclined to see the point of a casual sex relationship?
It's not perfect, but declaring this story the worst thing you've read? How can someone possibly take that kind of opinion seriously?
Quite honestly I didn't like the way the characters were portrayed, and all that crap about "summoners" and "designates" was confusing as hell. If you're going to introduce your headcanon in a story, you don't make it a one-shot minific in which said headcanon is neither essential to the plot nor satisfactorily explained.
ReplyDeleteThe only reason this ISN'T the worst thing I've ever read on EqD is because of Spiderses, which at least was humorously terrible. Honestly I'd say this may be even worse because clearly this one takes itself seriously and is still terrible.
While it does have a few areas of merit to it, and the courage to broach a little-talked-about subject is something to admire to a degree, the fact is that noone broaches a taboo subject unless they DO have an agenda to push. Frankly I'm amazed the pre-readers let this get through.
TL;DR: EqD, I am disappoint.
There is absolutely nothing purple about this prose- no over-used adjectives, no abundant adverbs, no disgustingly long series of paragraph that could literally take one sentence to write. Every thing has an emotion and reaction to it that totally justifies how it's being written.
ReplyDeleteThere are many paragraphs, but those are within Spike's thoughts, at least in chapter one, and very justified paragraphs if you ask me. His thoughts are quick and brief and panicking, not as described by many here to be badly paced.
I have been defending this without reading it, using the words of pre-readers and readers I know that like it to defend it, but having read it on my own now, I'm completely dismayed at how much of the reader base clearly doesn't know how to define their terms.
Nothing is stilted - they're almost streaming-thought, following Spike's mindset as he panics from what he thought was a realization. Nothing is purple - everything if described as it is or felt as it should be.
@FlintLock While I agree it's confusing for a new reader, the author has a pre-established fanon that spans multiple stories, so the "summoner" and "designates" is part of an overarching storyline that is still coming into fruition.
ReplyDeleteThe whole 'worst thing on EqD' is thrown around here with great abandon. Such simplification, which to anyone who's actually read some of the non 5 and 6 star stories will know it's an utterly arbitrary criticism.
Also, 'noone broaches a taboo subject unless they DO have an agenda to push'? Really now? What is so taboo about giving a child you have raised 'the talk'? It's something every parent needs to grapple with eventually, something that should be done openly and with honesty. It's something that needs consideration, and more discussion in different media mean it will get that. Taboo implies it's something nobody talks about, that you ignore it in the hopes that it goes away.
Is that what you believe this subject to be? And why does the author need to have a hidden agenda to discuss it? So you believe the author is hiding behind his story, twirling a metaphorical Snidely Whiplash mustache and going "An AGENDA! I'll PUSH it! NO ONE WILL EVER KNOW!!"
Or is it that the author simply had an idea, that if anything the agenda IS to discuss it, to shed some light on a 'taboo' subject? Or is simply to tell a story about Spike and Twilight acting as child and mother-figure? Fact is, sometimes people write because they've got a story to tell, not an agenda.
@Varanus
ReplyDeleteFrankly my main issue is not with the "agenda" which may or may not be there. Read the comment left by minty. That pretty much sums up all the numerous issues this fic has. Except for Spike acting too mature, I don't agree with him on that.
If this fic is part of a greater overarching story like you say, perhaps there should have been some mention of that in the post. As it is, it is supremely confusing.
Perhaps for some critics the "worst thing ever" tag is rather carelessly tossed around, but not with me. When I say this is almost the worst thing I've read on EqD, I mean to say that I have yet to read anything that filled me with dislike to such a degree as this. That being said, I also deliberately avoid reading anything I know I won't like, so perhaps that doesn't mean so much as it seems.
And for the record, the author's apparent opinion of casual-sex relationships is exactly my own. I'm not ragging on him for that. In the context of the story it makes a certain sense.
In any case, the very purple descriptions, the INCREDIBLE volume of repetitive dialogue, etc. That's why I didn't like it.
If you don't agree with me, buck up and deal with it.
@FlintLock Opinion noted. I suppose I just can't understand the accusations of purple prose and stilted dialogue and whatnot.
ReplyDeleteThere have been times where I've liked something, and when I went back to read it I couldn't stand to look at it. This isn't the case here, I feel everything in the story was very precise and well thought out in terms of presentation and prose. Not to say things couldn't be improved in the case of repetition, but 'worst ever' is... well, I don't know what fics you've read! But when you make that sort of statement, and I compare it to the fics I've read which are FAR below this story's standards, of course I'm going to misinterpret your statement.
That said, I myself am writing a story where, deliberately, not much actually happens, so I suppose I'm receptive to this type of writing.
Is the story really that bad? Sure the style and structure might be below standards but I really liked what the story was about. My only complaint is that I had trouble understanding what Spike was worrying about and what his feelings were as he ran into the market square. Could someone clarify?
ReplyDelete@Neoco
ReplyDeleteas mentioned by some others, i'm not saying that it's the WORST FIC EVER.
All im saying is that it has issues, major issues, and certainly does not deserve its current rating.
To sum up the points made in my pervious post, in order of importance they are:
1: Repitition (this one irks me the most)
2: Overly dramatic
3: Inaccurate characterization (similiar to 2)
4: Boring plot
I brought out specific examples from the story too. Do read it and see if you agree with me.
The repetition is them stuttering or having trouble finding their words. No author every intentionally "repeats words one after another" except to captivate that feel, and it was very obviously happening.
ReplyDeleteDramatic is just how THEY felt about it. Spike was scared and Twilight was worried. I agree that /maybe/ the market scene took a tiny bit too long, but not by much. Spike is cold blooded after all, and it was cold out.
I don't believe it's very innacurate - this isn't exactly a subject matter that we can expect to ever compare to with the show. For all we know, Twilight is some forever-alone nerd who knows nothing about those functions. We can't say one word or another.
>Boring Plot
What do you want, an epic? It's a close and personal story and it never advertised anything more.
@Varanus
ReplyDelete"Such simplification, which to anyone who's actually read some of the non 5 and 6 star stories will know it's an utterly arbitrary criticism."
I have to disagree with you here.
I'd like to bring out this other story, 'Haunting Nightmare' written by Pen Stroke. Similiar to this fic's current rating, it was given four stars. Do juxtapose the two stories together and you will notice the vast differences in the standards.
Pen Stroke's story had far more minor issues than this one. Its writing style and description was near perfect and the paragraphs flowed nicely. In fact, i thought it deserved 5 stars. The biggest problem i found was in the overall tone of the story. However, this fic here has much, much greater issues than 'Haunting Nightmare'.
Yet both stories are getting the same rating.
@NinesTempest
Uh.. are you talking about the repitition along the opening with respect to Twilight's and Spike's perspectives? I'm fine with that. I'm talking about repititive description, thoughts, etc.
Juxtaposing:
ReplyDeleteThis is at 3.9, Haunting Nightmare is at 4.4. This is an understated 'moment in the life of' fic, the other is a horror fic. One is by a writer who strives to be experimental and is influenced by Elizabethan prose, the other is far more accessible and contemporary.
This story has, in fact, more ratings than Haunting Nightmare, but Haunting Nightmare is still higher, even if neither reach 5 stars. For two reasons, probably.
1) It's a Pen Stroke story. This is an unavoidable factor. Much to his chagrin, the Past Sins fandom is pretty eager to praise his works rather than give constructive criticism. I note, however, that you are not one such reviewer, so hats off to you.
On the other hand, the ratings can be dragged down because Past Sins also has a sizable (undeserved, imo) hatedom, large enough to knock Past Sins from 4.9 to 4.8 after thousands of ratings were already given - something that is frankly unprecedented. And they are a petty lot... While in theory this 'balances out' the vocal fanbase, in reality it makes the 'true rating' of his stories very tricky to surmise.
2) It says Horror, so people know what to expect. People who don't like horror won't read it, people who do would probably enjoy it. With The Talk, it's a Normal, but fits into the overarching fanon the author has. It intimidates new readers. Perhaps that's the problem? You enter the fic, suddenly have a question, and rather than see if it will be answered, one allows their suspension of disbelief to be instantly shattered. I really don't know.
Please, don't talk to me about Pen Stroke. I know him well, he's a friend of mine, I'm helping him do the final edit of Past Sins. I haven't read Haunting Nightmare yet, but I have faith in his abilities to deliver a strong story.
Likewise, I only have to read The Talk to know how skilled an author the Descendant is. Would you have the same criticism for Tangled Up in the Blues?
I think you chose a poor story to compare with, because I have faith in both. To me, the juxtaposition says "these stories are both such that the community of EqD cannot see their true value". And if you think I'm wrong, than that's your opinion, and it won't do anything to change the fact that I've looked at your arguments and found them... lacking at best, pedantic at worst.
But hey, opinions, am I right?
Very well written. It was very touching keep up the great work
ReplyDeleteInteresting. I expected comedy and got drama. A good idea, and good writing, but I will agree that it was overly dramatic.
ReplyDeleteAlso, causal sex goes both ways. A lot of young women talk about men the same way, just not as openly. Feels like men are made the bad guy, especially after how Twilight treats Caramel after the misunderstanding.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI honestly thought this was a great story that really gets to show just how close Spike and Twilight are
ReplyDeleteI think that NinesTempest has one incredibly good point that everyone on this thread needs to think about: This story is written from Twilight's and Spike's point of view, and this is something that folks in a parent-child relationship are going to feel strongly about. Even if individuals would otherwise be okay with casual hook-ups, I think that most wouldn't want to see it for their own parent or child.
ReplyDeleteAnd, allow me to go one step further and say, sexual mores are an okay thing to have as long as you aren't foisting them on other people.
That said, I loved this story. There were certainly unwieldy sentences, but overall, I felt that the limited third person perspective worked well. The story itself was beautiful, Spike's original mistake wonderfully comi-tragic, and Twi and Spike's mutual concern for each other incredibly touching. The author might have emphasized the "This is hard for Spike to talk about because he is a boy!!!1!SHIFT!!!1" bit a few too many times, but overall, I didn't think that there was any significant gender bias in the story. It was a great piece of work, one of my very favorites, and I'm incredibly glad I chose to read it.
It certainly deserves better than four stars!
ReplyDelete