[Normal]
Author: Cloudy Skies
Description: Being a blank-flank filly is tough enough, something all the Cutie Mark Crusaders can attest to. When somepony points out that Applebloom has neither fancy magic nor awesome wings, the world can seem downright cruel. Fortunately, she's not alone, and Applejack knows a little story or two.Well Grounded
Additional Tags: Earth-pony pride, fable, collisions, contentment.
53 kommentaari:
Earth Poies have plenty of special talents, just not outward ones. This looks Like it could be a nice story, will give it a rea din a bit.
VastaKustutaEarth ponies really do get the crap end of the stick, poor little talentless Applebloom :P
VastaKustutaThe great thing about earth ponies is that most of the fan character earth ponies end up being interesting and creative, while most unicorns and pegasi are Mary Sues, and don't get me started on alicorns.
VastaKustutaThe moral of that in-story story is some of the worst non-sense I have ever heard.
VastaKustutaby the same logic it would be even better to lack even more, such that ponies should put themselves inside a sound and light proof box so that the entire world would be unknown and thus "greater".
Unicorns, Pegasi, to me, are simply not as interesting as Earth Ponies.
VastaKustutaI'll give this a read.
@Vegetalss4
VastaKustutaI agree. Ignorance is bliss, it's true, but this story seems to be selling ignorance as a virtue.
My headcanon is that Earth Ponies can till the earth and get leverage on the other ponies via food and habitation, making nature theirs where unicorns have to specialize in something and pegisi get weather duty, and can't make beans with the ground, making the earthies the frontier type. They get a strength and endurance buff over the average bear, and if you just *need* to make them competitive, I have an OC that got his Cutie Mark in wallwalking, by using the hoof tactile field with his connection to the earth to be able to climb stuff no other pony could, even up to a vertical slope.
VastaKustutaCourse, I also have one that got her Cutie Mark by eating some weird plants and getting stoned, so I might not have the best insight into how this stuff works.
Was it really hard for Applejack to simply say that earth ponies are stronger, have more endurance and have a connection to natur the others don't have?
VastaKustutathis went from a 5 star at 9 ratings to a 4.5 star with 14 ratings.
VastaKustutaI wish blogger showed the stats per rating. =|
@Vegetalss4
VastaKustutaI read it as "Earth Ponies have to work hard to get their things done, so we have more respect for hard work, and that translates into the Earth respecting us."
Dunno how sour grapes that is, but I guess it works. That, and the Earth Pony could build and use a telescope while the Pegasus and Unicorn asphyxiate themselves.
Woop, finally up.
VastaKustutaOcean Breeze who did the art asked me to mention that the original file was a alpha channeled PNG, and it wasn't meant to be as black and gloomy as this!
@Vegetalss4
Taking the lesson of a fable to its absurd extreme does not really do anybody any favors. It was meant to be a comment on not letting anypony tell you who you are.
I apologize if it did not resonate well with you.
So much for reading a story about Apple Bloom getting grounded. LOL.
VastaKustutaI quite liked the moral, its a good story. you did well with the portrayal of characters and I liked it.
VastaKustutaI'm fairly rubbish at explaining without rather long winded comments but the whole thing felt pretty good.
A note to authors out there:
VastaKustutaPlease don't type out Applebloom's and Applejack's accents (or any accent for that matter) 24/7.
Only mention it every now and then, or use it to emphasize something, like "Applebloom's fury caused her accent to get thicker when she said, "Blah blah Ah'm talkin' like this righ' now."
Ok, not the best of examples but you get what I mean. It is simply annoying to read the accent every time the character speaks, especially when they are the main character.
Just my opinion.
The general plot could be an actual episode.
VastaKustutaI mean, it was kind of obvious to begin with; Friendship Is Magic is eventually going to have an episode about Racism and why it is bad. Some people are just racist idiots, INCLUDING those in elementary school (which is the education place of the target demographic), and some kids don't know how to deal with them.
@Cloudy Skies
VastaKustutaTo be fair, the message given by Applejack's story can very easily be translated into "ignorance is bliss" rather than the "pride in who you are" that seemed to be intended.
And the story Applejack tells honestly isn't that clear about making note of which one should be taken from it. I really only got what I think was the intended message from how Applebloom said her sister told it rather than the story itself.
And, speaking personally, I'm sorry to say this but I know that when I read the description for this that I was expecting something a bit more... profound, for lack of a better word, than what the in-universe story ended up delivering. What AJ told wasn't deep so much as confusing, and I actually ended up emphasizing with Applebloom more than AJ by the end.
@moocow1452
VastaKustutaThe problem with this argument is that it makes Earth Ponies inherently lesser than Unicorns and Pegasuses.
Consider: if Earth Ponies "talent" comes from having to do without the "talents" of the other two, then a Unicorn/Pegasus who was born crippled such that they couldn't use their magic/wings, then she would also have had to do without and thus get the same advantage, thus making an Earth Pony just a crippled Pegasus/Unicorn.
plus to me it looks to much like the argument that "blind people aren't really worse of than other people because they learn to hear better."
@Cloudy Skies
First of, there is no need to apologize your stories need not resonate with everypony, nor with me in particular. :)
Secondly the point I was trying to illustrate was that if the stars are greater from not being "known", then the same should logically apply to, say apple trees, and grass and ultimately everything. Thus making it so that if you denied yourself the ability to "know" anything would make the world "greater".
Thirdly: it seems I forgot to tell you that it is a very good story, from a technical standpoint, even if I don't care for the message. Props for that :)
Just finished reading the fic.
VastaKustutaIt was a nice little story! It seems to me like the CMCs are the best for having short and sweet stories.
I've always told myself that Earth Ponies were able to use their immense strength and ground-based agility to just JUMP to where they need to go.
VastaKustutaAnd maybe even jump off walls like a ninja/parkourist. 'Cause wall-jumping is cooler than flying or teleporting.
...And due to a rather creepy pic of an injured Applejack's body parts splitting into tendrils and grabbing the earth to restore itself, I've also told myself that Earth Ponies are goddamn invincible as long as they're on the ground.
I also find earth ponies the most interesting, and enjoyed the story, though I admit the fable didn't quite resonate with me either. I also kinda stick with the fanon of earth ponies having more strength and endurance, and the ties to the land the others don't.
VastaKustutaHahahaha no. Are you serious? Like, this wasn't meant to be a trollfic, right?
VastaKustutaThere is absolutely no way in which being an earth pony doesn't suck so much meat missile it could open its own sperm bank. Sure, they're a bit stronger. They can run a bit faster and have a bit more endurance.
All any of that is can be equated to a consolation prize. Unicorns and pegasi don't NEED any of that. What does being stronger do for them? Nothing unicorn magic can't do with a thought. They're faster? Unicorns can TELEPORT, and pegasi can FLY. They have more endurance? Unicorns and pegasi can do everything so much faster, they don't need endurance to keep working for long periods of time.
Look at how mad Applejack gets when Twilight uses magic at winter wrap up. That whole 'tradition' thing seems to be a thinly veiled excuse for being jealous as anything over what unicorns can do. Let me ask this; if everything has to be done the 'earth pony way' why do they need the Pegasus to clear the skies? Oh, right. THEY CAN'T DO SHIT.
.......Am I a racist now?
Was a good fic, don't get me wrong, but the message rang a little hollow.
@La Barata
VastaKustuta...I think you may be good sir, but there isn't really anything to back up earth ponies being equal in canon (hoping season 2 at least addresses earth ponies) so I can't call you wrong. My own interpretation of canon is different though. *shrugs*
@GaruuSpike
VastaKustutaWe already have "Bridle Gossip".
I'm with Vegetalss4 as far as the moral not seeming to work, but for a different reason.
VastaKustutaThe problem I encounter with this story is that it doesn't really address the issue of how the Pegasi and Unicorns seem to have everything the Earth Ponies do, and more. (Some cite a connection to the earth or more natural strength as the Earth Ponies defining traits, but the connection is speculation, and RD and others have clearly been shown to match AJ in strength at times, so that idea doesn't hold up.)
Unfortunately I read Cloud Skies comment (I don't like finding out about authorial intent) but I would say that the story doesn't deliver any kind of self-determination message in my reading.
I imagine the author was going for something similar to the speech given by Sweetie Belle and Scootaloo in Call of the Cutie--that because they lack Cutie Marks they can still be anything and discovering that will be a unique and interesting experience.
I think the problem is the context this story is set in. The original message is framed with the idea of Cutie Marks, whereas this story is placed in the context of inherent, physical capabilities. The talents and skills that generate/arise from Cutie Marks are nebulous, and unknown, where the physical abilities of each pony race are already known. So what seems like the inner conflict of Applebloom (that Earth Ponies lack anything unique to themselves over Pegasi and Unicorns) doesn't seem to be resolved by the story of the three sisters, or deliver a message of "not letting anypony tell you who you are." This is mainly because there's nothing holding back the Unicorns and Pegasi from doing exactly what AJ says is the Earth Ponies own particular trait of "listening," which seems to be absorbing and/or appreciating the world around them.
I can kind of see where there was an equality set up between the races with the Unicorns having their own view of the world defined by the magic Twilight so glowingly describes, or the ability to fly, which Scootaloo kind of gets across. But being a pegasi or unicorn doesn’t seem to explicitly deny them from “listening” as Earth Ponies can, where Earth Ponies could never feel magic like Unicorns or fly like Pegasi.
The logic of the story fails to work because we’re left right back where we started, with Earth Ponies lacking any characteristics unique to them as a race. At no point does the story seem to connect to an idea of self-determination. I didn't get that moral.
There have been a couple of stories I've seen that have tried giving earth ponies their own unique "superpower" along the same lines as pegasus flight and unicorn magic. This one seems to have taken the tricker and possibly more interesting approach that earth ponies _don't_ have any such superpower. I'm not sure how well it worked, I can definitely understand the "ignorance is bliss" complaint voiced above about Applejack's story. I think perhaps the issue might be a bit too subtle to satisfactorily resolve with a simple tale like that. But it was definitely thought-provoking in an area that I've already thought a lot about.
VastaKustutaEarth ponies on the show do have very high amounts of endurance and strength.
VastaKustutaBig Macintosh is able to till a field using a rusted old plow that he used since he was a colt!
And take Pinkie Pie, for instance. She is able to HOP wherever she goes. She is able to track down and suprise Rainbow Dash. She is able to break down the fourth wall with ease. She does not sleep. She is always on a sugar rush. She has never been shown being tired.
Applejack is even stronger. She is able to harvest thousands of apples without rest. She was able to keep working for weeks with only minimal sleep. She suffered injuries that would cripple others.
Pegasi, for instance, probably have a lighter build and bone structure. AJ was able to launch RD with ease.
Unicorns shown on the show are never as strong as their earth pony brethren. Take Rarity and Twilight as an example.
All breeds have strengths and weaknesses. Except for Alicorns.
@GaruuSpike
VastaKustutaThanks to a considerably less creepy fic called "It's Dangerous Business Going Out Your Door," I've come to that same conclusion.
@Vegetalss4
VastaKustutaIt's the good old Fighter vs Mage debate essentially, not that Earth Ponies are inherently disabled by not being able to fly or use unicorn magic, but more that they have a quicker learning curve to and from their full potential. Lot more powerhouse Earthies than Unicorns at the same age, and a lot more powerhouse older Unicorns than Earthies likewise. Mostly because older Unicorns learn more as they get older, and most are hyper specialized in certain areas over others their magic cannot effect, (like how your average person can't major in art, biology and business), where Earthies are more general purpose wunderkinds when it comes to physical labor and dexterity. Twilight non-withstanding on both counts, since she's pony messiah.
*Lot more younger powerhouse Earthies than Unicorns at the same age*
VastaKustutaThe moral of the story sucks. "You've gotten the short end of the stick, so tell yourself that makes you 'special.' Fool yourself with self esteem speeches!"
VastaKustutaThe moral of the fairy tale Applejack tells her is worse: "I'm ignorant, and I want to stay that way because that makes me special!" WTF?
Wish to God that Faust would fix this in the show. She claims that all three pony types have magic, yet you never SEE it in any clear way from the Earth ponies. One episode, dammit, just one episode where Earth pony magic is important and USED OBVIOUSLY.
Otherwise, Word of God means nothing. The earth ponies are stuck on the short bus until then.
But yeah, it seems earth ponies are still a sensitive subject. Anyone remember that story a while back where they rebelled for getting the short end of the stick and everyone, especially Applejack and Pinkie, were OOC? Got pulled within 5 hours due to backlash, but that certainly sparked an earth pony debate like no other in the comments.
VastaKustuta@Food Food Food
VastaKustutaI dunno, a lot of those examples are a bit ambiguous. We haven't seen other ponies plough so it's hard to say if Big MacIntosh is uniquely physically powerful. We did see Rainbow match Applejack in many feats of strength in Fall Weather Friends. And in Applebuck season we saw Twilight harvesting dozens of trees simultaneously with magic, so unicorns can compete in other ways. As for durability, I think Rainbow Crash has survived far more physical abuse than Applejack. And Twilight, the egghead bookworm, bounced right back from having an anvil and a piano fall on her.
There is, however, one really major and really subtle example of earth ponies pulling off something amazing. They built Appleoosa in a single year. That means they managed to plant an apple orchard and grow it to full apple-producing maturity in just a single year, _in a desert._ Something's up with that.
@Bryan
VastaKustutaWe don't know if they have zero help from Pegasi/Unicorn. That's conjecture.
@Dark Horizons
VastaKustutaTrue, but I'm pretty sure we didn't see any unicorns or pegasi among the Appleoosan townsfolk in that episode (at work right now so I can't check for certain). So IMO it's not an unreasonable one, especially since Word of God already suggested that earth ponies had special abilities in the field of agriculture.
Wasn't sure if I was going to read it, then I realized that this author also wrote "Within and Without". Squee'd. Gonna begin reading
VastaKustutaWouldn't pegasai and unicorns make better workers and farmers, is so, then why are the earth ponies doing all of it? shouldn't they be in government making laws, considering that you don't need wings or horns to do that...
VastaKustutaIs it just me, or has this topic been dug up a lot?
VastaKustutaEarth ponies are explicitly said to be stronger and have more endurance than other ponies. Just look at "Winter Wrap-Up" (Twilight sucks at physical labor, and Rarity's job is more arts and crafts than anything else) or "Fall Weather Friends" (Twilight wins fifth place simply by pacing herself until the pegasus ponies started faltering and then sprinting. They can't fly or levitate objects, so they have to actually work harder than any other race to get their work done.
And in any case, the other two pony races aren't all that wonderful either. An earth pony can pretty much do any job with the right training and equipment; unicorns are so specialized in their magic (save Twilight) that they can only use spells directly related to their cutie mark. In addition, pegasus ponies have wings, but that's it. They still have to work things with their mouths, i.e. how earth ponies do it, and a body designed to be aerodynamic is going to be far frailer than something that has to stay on the ground all the time.
THAT would be a far better moral, that earth ponies can do just about anything they set their mind to and work for, than "Not being special is special." I'm sorry, but that's what kills this fic: the moral. It's like "Feeling Pinkie Keen" all over again; an overly-vague aesop that can go in any direction, most commonly down the wrong one. Everything else is solid, but...man. I don't want to be mean, but Applejack's story and Apple Bloom's understanding of it just killed this.
Meh, fairly good, Trevor supposes...
VastaKustuta@pg13fresno
VastaKustutaI guess that makes sense, although any pony could do anything they wanted too if so inclined, since that comes down to ingenuity over build. But I see where Earth Ponies are more all purpose than pony magic, although there was never a straight answer on if the flying carriages keeps themselves afloat or if it's part of the Pegasus pony magic.
Heck, if they really need to have a power, my guess is that the connection to the Earth works both ways, and Earth Ponies can put down a lot more traction down than Pegasi or Unicorns when it comes to dragging stuff from A to B, or not getting knocked off their feet. Alleviates the strength and endurance issue, and explains why Applejack doesn't seem to be knocked around as much as the other manes. (Pinkie might be the exception that proves the rule, or... just might be Pinkie.)
You remember when Pinkie Pie told the story of her cutie mark, and ended the story with "... and that's how Equestria was made!"
VastaKustutaIn my own view, Earth Ponies are what hold Equestria together. Unicorn magic is short-lived. A pegasus can move clouds... but the clouds move back. Earth Pony magic is slow and steady... and it endures.
Am I the only one who wants to know what Twilight and Rarity were trying to synthesize?! Argh!
VastaKustutaHmm same author as building bridges?
VastaKustutaI'll have to give it a look now...
Hmm same author as building bridges?
VastaKustutaI'll have to give it a look now...
[Minor Spoilers]
VastaKustutaUh. Right.
Don't rightly know if I want to get my hooves stuck in the pony type debate that's going on here, but suffice it to say that my aim was to illustrate the story from a filly's perspective.
It's imperfect like that for a reason, and doesn't aim to be a comment on the "power level" of different pony types. I have my own views, perhaps they shine through, but they're not the point.
It's about Applebloom, about a concern, and about her big sister trying to fix it. It ends on a funny note because Applebloom doesn't really "get it". How much profound wisdom seeped in through her ears, and how much she just trusted her sister when she says it's okay? That's not for me to say.
Anyway, I appreciate the comments, thank you for taking the time to give me your thoughts!
I really liked the story...except for the tale at the end. I don't think it addressed the issue. It don't see how it gives Apple Bloom any insight into the specialness of Earth Ponies, and it doesn't even relate to what happened to her that day. What's she going to think to herself next time a bully Pegasus shows up and pulls a book out of her reach or something? What is she to think when her friends get to do Pegasus or Unicorn only things and all she gets to do is work on a farm, something all types can do?
VastaKustutaBut other than that, I liked it.
That was a fun read. I thought the characters and emotions were consistent and well fleshed out. In my own meta-analysis of the story, I sorta had the same feeling as Applebloom; I didn't really understand the moral, but I can see how it would make her feel better. The thought of family looking out for you and trying to shed positive light on a situation, while giving the slightest ego-boost and sense of humble pride. The character's emotions just worked well with the progression of events.
VastaKustutaIn terms of a more direct analysis of the story, I would tend to agree that the setup, story-within-a-story, and the resolution don't quite add up. Take your pick from the criticism above. However, it still appeals to me in the way an impressionistic piece would; its more about the feeling than the content.
As for the "explicit accent", I rather like it in a snapshot piece such as this, especially since I've been riding the impressionistic vibe. It is another texture. However in something more dialogue-heavy or lengthy I would use it in moderation.
Aaaaand, they were synthesizing gold lamé...for an order of princess Leia costumes...don't ask me why...
(just to make this even more meta, i first tried to post this last night, but it kept getting booped by what i thought was a spam filter but i'm now realising is a word limite. so this response might be a bit outdated but... here goes. *again*)
VastaKustuta>decide to finally break lurking streak
>write huge post chipping in on the debate
>wordpress eats post
bluhh
but maybe this attempt will be concise to the point that it's actually readable D:
anyway, it looks like the main point of contention is this line -
"She told'em that so long as she hadn't touched the stars, she knew they were whatever she wanted them to be."
and i totally get that this can be taken at face value, and that you can come away with the message that earth ponies are happy because they're ignorant. it was my kneejerk reaction too. but when (like me) you trust that because the author has done a great job with the story so far (i'll get round to gushing about that after addressing the argument a bit), he isn't goofing it all up now. the story lives and dies on whether a satisfactory reason is given as to why earth ponies don't suck - it just takes a little thought, and a bit of trust, to get there.
the best help that we get with this is when AJ tries to explain it to her little sister. if we're still going with face-value, she can't! and i think that's the point; *defining* what it is is a difficult thing. but when you pick up on some of the things she hints at - a sense of ambition, an appreciation of hard work, a connection with nature, a practical kind of wisdom, a source of vitality - you get the impression of something that's very wholesome. because we can't vector into the specifics of that doesn't make it any less valuable or significant than the magic that the super-pony-addons of wings and horns work on. yeah, it is something that's hard to make a specific point out of - but the author manages to convey it very well anyway. rather than bequeath earth ponies with a specific trait, a certain definable *thing* that put was up their with the other two super-pony-addons, cloudy skies gave us a sense of something much deeper, much less obvious, yet something that still means earth ponies are just as valuable as pegasi or unicorns. not only does that feel fitting and proper for the FiM universe, but it's a much more admirable thing for the author to attempt than simply bequeathing earth ponies with their own bolt-on ability, and even more admirable when he pulls it off - this story is now part of my earth-pony headcanon, and that, i think, is the ultimate proof that it does what it's supposed to, and does it pretty damn well.
anyway. gushing time! the combination of this issue being such a big one and of the it's-so-obvious-that-why-didn't-anyone-think-of-it-before [i]genius[/i] way that it's dealt with (applebloom really would have to come to terms with this as part of growing up) means that the real value of the story will lie in simply telling it, as well as in making good with a satisfactory conclusion. with these sort of stories, you don't need to really do alot with the body of the narrative up until that point of conclusion where you need to give an answer and closure. of course, that means that it's the easiest sort of story to screw up! so i think that it's the mark of a really good storyteller that the telling of it wasn't over or under done. which is why i like your other stuff so much (i really like what i've read so far of 'within and without', and after reading 'building bridges' straight after this i absolutely adored it - a properly classy ship, never has any needless drama, never any contrived feelings, and puts the couple together for the best reasons - something that doesn't quite happen in the other shipfics i've read). it's all well written; as in, the writing never gets in the way of ittself or of the story. and the story (and, especially, the things that they ultimately achieve) are brilliant. i usually don't keep a track of authors among all the pony stuff i read, but now i gotta make an exception for you! :D
VastaKustutait's late for me and most of that probably sounds like waffle, but i might just about have said what i intended to say so that's good enough for me!
@Dragoon235: "In terms of a more direct analysis of the story, I would tend to agree that the setup, story-within-a-story, and the resolution don't quite add up. Take your pick from the criticism above. However, it still appeals to me in the way an impressionistic piece would; its more about the feeling than the content."
VastaKustutaI think this pretty much sums up my reaction to the criticisms of the story; I really enjoyed it just as a day in Apple Bloom's life, and I'm not much bothered by the lack of a cut-and-dried, profound moral about what makes earth ponies special, partly because I don't need one and wasn't expecting one. (Though I can understand how the set-up would lead some to expect just such a moral.) Besides, Apple Bloom's last line made me laugh out loud. ;)
Very enjoyable!
VastaKustutaI was left feeling a little confused after reading this. I did not get the impression that the fable was supposed to be teaching 'ignorance is bliss.
VastaKustutaI've sat here for a few minutes thinking about the fable's meaning, I've read the comments and considered them, but nothing seems to click. Every suggestion and theory has a weakness. The only comment that comes close to making sense is Scotish's comment, and that pretty much sums up to 'the fable has no definable meaning, it merely points the individual being taught it in the direction of several different outlooks of life'.
Applebloom settles on the belief that the story will make sense to her when she's older, and puts her trust into her sister and her grandmother. Really that's all she needed, she just needed a little support, and the belief that there is an opportunity of experiencing life fulfilment as an Earth pony. It isn't a lie, nor is it ignorance, it's merely motivation to not dwell on things that can't be helped and keep on going forward. As with real life, many people find themselves lost and unsure of themselves because they lack the things that their peers possess - be it talents, physical strengths, or even background. Yet these same individuals stop worrying and instead set their eyes on being the best they can be, even if they have no specific target to aim for.
In the end, Applebloom will reach a point in her life where she shall realise that she's happy to be who she is, and proud of the talents that she has since discovered that she has. She may still not get the story's true meaning, but she'll understand that there is indeed something about it that helped her - even if it was something as simple as cheering her up that night she was down.
The writing was excellent, but the ending was rather shallow. It left me feeling likee there was more to tell or explain. All that aside, you really did grasp the characters rather well.
VastaKustutaI came back to this story and re-read some of the comments, and I realized that I've been a terrible pony.
VastaKustutaFact is, all criticism is well-founded, if only because an author who gets on his hind legs and says something that can be interpreted as "no, you don't get it" is delusional. I have no business being defensive.
I've had so many long and well-thought-out comments here, it's downright humbling. Thank you! While I can't realistically reply to everypony, I will comment on generalities:
To those who disliked the perceived moral: I botched the delivery. It was not my intent that this fic be read as glorifying ignorance. If you read it thus, it is because I failed at putting to paper what's in my head. I would never advocate self-disempowerment willingly, but the words were there.
To those who enjoyed it for it was: I am glad, truly. It IS a simple and short fic, and I never had any hopes of conveying a LOT of depth and such, but it is what it is.
Now, this in mind, I have gone back and edited it a little. I couldn't change the fable itself, but AJ's talk right after has seen a lot of changes. My intent is to emphasize self-empowerment, and downplay the importance of the "message" of the fable.
I doubt anypony intends to re-read this little fic just for that, and this is my first attempt at post-"publish" editing, but it gives me a sense of peace.
Thank you again to everypony who commented!