Author: BB
Description: The Elements of Harmony are defeated and Nightmare Moon stands on Equestria's throne as their new Queen. Is Equestria doomed to suffer through night time eternal or will they be... perfectly fine? Twilight finds her new job as slave or "personal assistant" to her new ruler to be a bit maddening. But is this evil sarcastic queen really as bad as she originally believed? And just how many others are diabolical enough to cash in on the change in staff? Can Nightmare truly run a peaceful Equestria? Only one way to find out.Nightmares Don't Last Forever
Additional Tags: Banter, NMM isn't grimdark, Banter
87 comments:
Yes they do, I still remember the worst of mine....
ReplyDeleteThey do if you wake up like twilight does in the picture
ReplyDeleteAdditional tags FTW
ReplyDeleteNNM isn't grimdark
ReplyDeleteOhoho that picture made me laugh.
ReplyDeleteSounds like an interesting story, never seen one where NMM succeeds andisn't a bad ruler.
@Jelfes
ReplyDeleteMinor Spoilers: She is pretty much a troll in it :)
I've already read the current chapters :)
Oh yeah, I read this. (Spoiler Alert)
ReplyDeleteAnd the answer is, yes. If you hold certain philosophies close like I do, then yes. NMM is still evil to the core. She enslaves ponies like Twilight and does a complete, thousand year mindwipe on Celestia. Yes, these are evil. It got hard to read very quickly because it kept seeming to try and pitch NMM as a benevolent and good pony after these things had happened, which just doesn't fly.
Oh yeah, she didn't let all the ponies in the world die and she gave them their sun back and she has a decent sense of humor, but that's still like living under Doctor Doom when he's having a good day.
Just saying.
(/Spoiler)
Well, since it's up on EQD now I might as well state how I feel about this story. It feels like a train wreck. You kind of want to look away, but you just keep looking.
ReplyDeleteI find the way Twilight reacts to her new post, though funny, kind of weird. She should be much more resistant.
ReplyDelete@Dusty I get what you're saying. I thought the same thing about Celestia, and feel that Twilight is taking it a little too well.
ReplyDeleteOther than that, Twilight doesn't seem to really care that much as long as NMM kept her hooves to herself...Which she did.
What is this I don't even.
ReplyDeleteIt's kinda funny, but in a lot of ways it's just hard for me to take.
ReplyDeleteLike Dusty said, messing with memories, minds, personalities and other mental whammies... That's a REALLY evil thing to do, at least in my opinion. I can't get behind a character that does that sort of thing, and yeah, it's... near sickening the positive light that the author seems to be trying to portraying Nightmare Moon in despite this.
Aww, what's the matter? Are my subjects unhappy? Do they not appreciate their queen?
ReplyDeleteYour friend, Twilight, while she might not admit it, quite enjoys our little snuggle time.
I saw on Fimfiction that this had 217 viewers. That's pretty high (near impossible usually) for that site, so I thought, 'wait, it's probably been posted on EqD'
ReplyDelete'Lo and Behold, here it was xD
Yeah, the writing isn't exactly top notch, but it's fun to read in a guilty pleasure kind of way.
@Nightmare Moon
ReplyDeleteNo, Ma'am, I think most of us are more concerned with Celestia's memories at the moment. If you wanna be a benevolent ruler then you can't just go zapping peoples' brainmeats.
@Dusty the Royal Janitor
ReplyDeleteIf I hadn't, she'd still be trying to launch a war against me and banish me back to the moon.
It's better for both of us if she didn't and thought we were together for the last thousand years.
I just finished the first chapter, and it's interesting. It seems a touch rushed at points. That may be due to the grammar, though, which tends to be a bit devoid of commas. The writing could use cleaning up, but the plot has me curious. I'm thinking 3/5, and maybe a 4 if the plot's better than I expect.
ReplyDelete@Nightmare Moon
ReplyDeleteCelestia's more reasonable than that. You seem to automatically assume that just because you were at odds in the past means you necessarily need to be at odds now. This is not the case. If you have indeed managed to cool off over the past thousand years then I think she'd be happy to have you back.
Of course, messing with memories is just about the worst thing a pony can do. Taking away all of the experiences and events that shape a pony and make them who they are? All the bad and good times that they've lived through over the years? That isn't the mark of a benevolent ruler.
This is a VERY interesting read, although the grammar drives me up a goddamn wall. Seriously, if you're going to show a character's internal thoughts, use italics or something to differentiate.
ReplyDeleteOkay, this is bad. I can't even get past the first few paragraphs because of how terrible the grammar is. The story can't decide if it wants to be first or third person, which reduces its flow into a messy clusterfuck of disjointed thought. I would say that at least the idea behind it is good, but I can't force myself to read far enough into it to find out.
ReplyDeleteAuthor, please make your story readable, because the description is very interesting and I'd like to see what you could do with the concept. But right now...it just hurts to look at.
I'll have to say that while the concept is interesting, the story was badly written. The internal dialogue meshed with the storytelling too badly and couldn't be told apart from regular writing.
ReplyDeleteIn other news, the concept amused me, as I'd already written such. If in a different way. Nightmare Moon returns, banishes the Elements to the moon, conquers Twilight and her friends, takes Twilight as her Royal Pet, including even a horn inhibitor to prevent her from using magic and a collar reminiscent of Luna's breastplate.
@Dusty the Royal Janitor
ReplyDeleteI think you're confusing "benevolent ruler" with "generally good person." A benevolent ruler does what is best for the kingdom, whether that means maintaining stability, increasing its territory, building the economy, etc. None of that requires the ruler to be a good person. Caesar Augustus was and is considered the greatest of the Roman emperors, but you'd have a hell of an uphill battle trying to prove he was a good person.
@cursormortis Benevolent ruler and effective ruler are also not the same thing. You're describing the latter, not the former.
ReplyDeleteNot talking about the fanfic, just pointing out minor discrepancy.
@Nightmare Moon
ReplyDeleteYou know if you hadn't just temporarily zapped me away when you came back I would have been willing to talk.
But the very first thing you did was announce how it would be nighttime forever and get rid of me, tends to make people less favourably disposed to you. Not to mention you can't talk to somepony who isn't there.
@cursormortis
ReplyDeleteBasically what Overlong Analysis Cobalt said.
Going back to my original comic book comparison to Doctor Doom for example? He's an excellent ruler of Latveria and the people of Latveria are generally able to lead out stable, generally decent lives... but that doesn't make him any less of a supervillain.
Ceaser Agustus is just a good Real life example.
A BENEVOLENT ruler on the other hand is one that doesn't simply care for the country, but all of the people in it as well, and is willing to fight injustice and pain even on the smallest level. A person who wants all their subjects to be happy and free. And having your sister's memories wiped because they might be a little inconvenient to you does not fall in line with this.
I don't get what's the problem. I'm almost done with the first chapter; quite amusing and very good, a fresh OOC air from all these tensions. No one is obviously acting like they should be, but hey, this is fanfiction. It's true about -all- shipping. This is OOC in it's own funny way.
ReplyDelete5/5.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the fact that NMM is practically molesting Twilight; forcing her to sleep in the same bed and touching her in a way the unicorn doesn't want to be touched.
ReplyDeleteAnd making her wear that dress.
@Zamoonda
ReplyDeletePeople are mostly complaining about the grammar and the whole "Hey, I wiped my sister's memories, essentially destroying her experiences, relationships and confidence, but I'm not evil, just a jerk!"
I think that's understandable.
But it's been proven people can ignore the writing in the face of a good plot. Look at anything by Dan Brown.
@Municipal Engines
ReplyDeleteGranted though, it is actually quite entertaining in a "Shame on you for finding that funny" sort of way.
I love this story so much.
ReplyDelete@Overlong Analysis Cobalt
ReplyDelete@Dusty the Royal Janitor
Point. Still, I think you might be taking it a bit far. So far, NMM has neutralized two threats to her rule in a way that's certainly more humane than killing them. Yeah, she mindfrakked the hell out of Celestia, but it's still more humane than killing her or throwing her in prison. She's given the ponies a way to live with eternal night. She's undercut a bureaucrat who would have worked more for personal gain than anything that could possibly be good for Equestria (I rather liked Lucid Sky, BTW. Reminded me of Long Feng from A:tLA or the bureaucracy from Stackpole's Age of Discovery). Right now she's been consolidating her throne and has yet to do much ruling at all. I think she may well turn out to be benevolent, if still not a nice pony. If she doesn't, well, these words are inscribed in electrons forever so that my shame can be seen by all.
@Municipal Engines
ReplyDeleteFunny, must've blocked that out by focusing on the grammar issues. Not quite Molestia-tier, but definitely a bad touch moment.
So, this FINALLY made it to EqD, and there's no new updates?! Lame...
ReplyDelete~ Magical Trevor, Minstrel of Equestria
I don't think NMM, in this fic, is supposed to be portrayed as good or evil, but a shade of dark grey perhaps. Actions born out of necessity to her cause and her own wants, as well as out of whatever concerns she has at the time.
ReplyDelete@cursormortis
ReplyDeleteWe have very different definitions of the word humane, my friend. But I suppose that's why different people adopt different philosophies.
Frankly? I would MUCH rather be murdered or banished or thrown into prison for the rest of my life than have my memories toyed with. I would rather go down fighting to protect my sense of self and my identity than to wake up one day somebody completely different.
Think about something you hold dear to yourself. Something you feel represents a huge part of your identity. Now assume that somebody has taken away or altered that part of yourself. Think hard about the person you would suddenly become. How would you feel if you were to meet your new self and get to talking? Angry? Depressed? Nigh homicidal? I know that I'd feel that way.
Taking memories, to me, is like murdering a person and leaving a mockery of them in their place.
That doesn't even begin to describe what's going on with Twilight, which is, at core, a combination of slowly mentally breaking her and enslaving both her mind and body.
And yet... The author writes this story in such a way that we're supposed to be perceiving NMM in a positive light.
There is no way to describe the number of moral "wrong buttons" this story pushes with me. I'm not arrogant enough to say that all people should think the same way as me. That would make me just the same as NMM here. But I'm not timid enough to keep my thoughts and philosophies to myself. This story and the way it is written sicken me, and I find it quite honestly frightening the amount of people that find it perfectly acceptable.
HA! I don't know what everyone else's problem is but I loved this. Maybe its my slightly disturbed personality but you simply must write more :D
ReplyDeletemorality issues aside, I think we can all agree that Sunny is so adorable she's practically the leading cause of diabetes in Equestria.
ReplyDelete@Dusty the Royal Janitor
ReplyDeleteExactly what I was about to say.
Taking away someones entire identity is basically killing them and reanimating the corpse.
I don't agree with the whole "this is sickening bleh" thing because it really isn't. This coming from the guy who criticized Cupcakes for having a silly idea of how long someone would survive/stay conscious under such circumstances and being too rushed to fully impact the reader. I digress, as I said before, it's a guilty pleasure because we get to watch Twilight get creeped out by overly touchy NMM and the idea of it happening is hilarious.
@Earl Grey
ReplyDeletePeople see different things in diferent ways. If people find it funny that's okay. I can't say I personally LIKE it and I will admit, the sheer amount of people that seem to find it funny kinda scares me, but I'm not one to say that it's a bad thing if people find this funny.
All I ever really ask people to do, is to stop and think. Look at things from different perspectives or manners before they fully decide upon something. Think about actions and consequences and what they mean, and think from the perspectives of others. All I ever ask is for people to really think. I read this story and thought about it from a ton of different perspectives before deciding upon the only one that worked for me, and now all I ask is that others try to do the same.
@Dusty the Royal Janitor
ReplyDeleteIf I was an alicorn bent on deposing my sister and conquering the nation, I'd probably be much more ruthless than she has. Not saying that she's not done anything wrong, but I personally could have done things much more bloodily than she has done. And practically too.
1: Do not keep a unicorn who is the deposed ruler's most loyal and perhaps most powerful supporter in the same quarters as me. And don't try to sleep with her either. I'm the fucking ruler of a nation, I can have a perfectly willing harem out of the most eligible selection of female the kingdom has to offer. I'd probably either throw Twilight in some deep, dark and high-security prison to rot, or kill her outright.
Or I'd invest time into breaking her and turning her to my side. After I've secured the country first.
2: The government will be remodelled. And by remodelled, I mean a Stalin-style purge. That Lucid Sky fellow strikes me as a conniving Grand Vizier type, and the Grand Viziers always want to switch their turban for the crown.
3: Win the hearts and minds of the nation. With those I can't win over, I isolate the cells of resistance and deal with them quietly and without mercy.
4: How to deal with my deposed sister is quite important. I would either kill her (safest option, but she's still my sister), do exactly what NMM's done, but shape her mind to be much more loyal and accommodating to me (although, there is still a risk of her regaining her memories and abilities), or I'd send her to the moon (where there is a chance of her escaping).
5: Since I doubt, being a ruthless dictator and all, I would be able to use the EoH for myself, and assuming that they're indestructible, I'd have them hidden separately all over Equestria in the most secret and secure places that I can find/build.
6: Dealing with the living embodiments of the Elements would mean I would first have to find them. The obvious answer is to raze Ponyville to the ground in a thorough if bloody search, but I do want to have the whole "Hearts and Minds" thing going for me, so I'd probably just make them outlaws to isolate them and send out a headhunt for them. Assuming that I find them, it's either execution or sending them to separate, secure prisons to rot. And I have all the time in the world after that, so I can get to work on breaking them and turning them to my side.
7: I'll probably break out into a villain song after that; dancing on the impaled corpses of my enemies and doing some synchronised swimming in the pools of blood.
It's good to be King.
(That was fun)
@Dusty the Royal Janitor
ReplyDeleteThe whole idea of reading something like this as a guilty pleasure is not to delve to deep into the meaning.
I'll put it bluntly, you're giving the author too much credit if you do.
I've been criticising fanfiction for a long time and from what I've read, it gave me the impression that very little thought went into the overall plot. Alternate ending to Ep2, NMM takes over, mind-wipes Celestia, enslaves Twilight for sexy time. That's what it is so delving into the "meaning" of things and looking at the different "perspectives" is useless because there aren't any.
@Municipal Engines
ReplyDeleteI'm going to write something like tat one day. Celestia's long-lost evil brother comes to fuck shit up with a gleeful Robespierre-level of pragmatic murder.
@Municipal Engines
ReplyDeleteNow, see, that's a full on Grimdark story. And while I don't tend to read things like that, it doesn't hit near as many morality buttons in me.
@Earl Grey
Well... yes and no. I can understand this being just a guilty pleasure. I have my own guilty pleasures too.
The thing is though, that a lot of the concepts that this story brings up in the first place are big ideas that deserve thought. What does it mean to be a benevolent ruler? What does it mean to be a good person? What is a mindwipe, how should it be used, and who does the victim of a mindwipe become? Is mental torture or enslavement more acceptable than physical torture or enslavement? Is death preferable to loss of mind?
These are questions that the inarguably raises... whether much thought was put into the writing or not. Thus, I ended up thinking not so much about the story, but about these questions. I came to my answers. But the story came to answers that were so totally polar opposite mine and was so lax in its presentation of these issues and the conclusions it came to... yeah. I still find it angering.
The story is amusing, - but the formatting and grammar needs a lot of work. It veers wildly between first and third person view. There's dialogue from two different characters in the same sentence. Inner thoughts are not in italics, or otherwise differentiated from the normal prose, and sometimes thoughts from one character run right after after dialogue from another character. It's incredibly hard to read.
ReplyDeleteIf it were better formatted, it would be a 4-5 star story, in my opinion.
wow... say hi to the comment walls-o-text.
ReplyDeleteGreat story, grammar could use a little work but it's a fun concept and done pretty well.
Walls o' Text are the only way to go when reviewing fanfiction xD
ReplyDelete@Dusty
With me, I can ignore questions like that and not bother thinking about them or how they impact the story, perhaps that's what sets us apart.
If I'm reading a fic like this and I see (Yes, the whole "thought process melting into the prose" REALLY bugged me from a reviewer point of view. The italics button is RIGHT THERE!) If I see that it isn't exactly the most well-written story, I can ignore most of the questions it raises (I always keep errors in mind though, Critics habit :P) and I can easily sit and enjoy/cringe all the way through.
They don't bother me, I just see this seriously mixed-up ruler who has an unhealthy obsession with some unicorn who both hates and loves her new role as "Queen's New Pet" whilst Luna walks around in a Younger-Celestia suit. Because let's face it, that's all Sunny is :/
@ Dusty
ReplyDeleteHow...How the hell is NMM breaking Twilight? She's not done anything but call her slave, and aside from teasing her and in general being a harmless troll, she hasn't put her through any physical or mental distress. Twilight is the type to freak out over nothing, that's her bad, not NMM's.
Honestly, yes, slavery is bad. But I have it on Word of God (I helped him by editting this story, and yes I tried to convince him to put internal dialogue in italics at least but he wouldn't listen) that NMM isn't supposed to be GOOD. She's just not EVIL. She's a jerk, a bully, and a troll. The story makes this very clear. You're supposed to like her because her pranks are mostly harmless, just her having fun more than actually hurting anyone.
I agree that she went too far with Celestia's memories, but that's something I think should remain in the story. In her own words, what should she have done? Banished her to the sun?
I hear it's real nice this time of year.
@TT
ReplyDeleteWell, let's see... what has she done so far.
She's kidnapped her from her friends.
Forced her to watch as Celestia wanders around in a completely blanked out state and is completely incapable of helping.
Dressed her up in a slave outfit
Taken away her ability to use magic
Proven over and over that she has the capability to basically control Twilight and that Twilight is powerless
Come damn near close to molesting Twilight
Humiliated her with the gagging and flank-whipping in front of her friends
And proven that her friends are just as ineffectual as anything else, thus there is no hope for her. She's stuck like this. She's effectively beating into her head the words "There is no hope."
This is the sort of thing, when one is exposed to it for too long, that breaks a person. No matter how many jokes and tricks you pepper it with (in fact that makes it come across as even more cruel and uncaring since it's all just a big joke to her). This is the sort of thing that breaks a man.
And you know what? Yeah. Banishment to the sun sounds way preferable to me than what she actually did. At least then she wouldn't be effectively mocking Celestia from inside her own emptied mind for the rest of her days.
I agree with a previous poster. I think you're looking at this the wrong way. Just gonna have to agree to disagree.
ReplyDelete@ Raefire
ReplyDeleteHe hasn't posted my editted versions yet. I should talk to him about that.
@TT
ReplyDeleteI suppose we must agree to disagree, but on the fact that we are looking at this in DIFFERENT ways. Not that either way is "wrong." I look at it in my way, and you can look at it in yours.
In that sense, we may agree to disagree.
I suppose I might as well clear this up now. All I'm trying to do here is offer a different perspective on this story from the "it's funny to watch NMM be a troll" one that a lot of people seem to be adopting.
ReplyDeleteI do this because I feel that, while it might not be intending to be thought provoking, the story brings up a number of important issues in it, but it brushes them off or chooses stances without much thought.
All I'm really trying to ask people to do here is think about important issues before simply casting them aside and choosing stances haphazardly.
I suppose my greatest folly in the past comments was not saying how all of this was "in my opinion." because that's all I can offer. My own opinion and my own philosophy. And all I can do is ask people to give sufficient thought to their own.
I can't get on the story I need help!
ReplyDeleteThat summary + comedy? SO THERE.
ReplyDeleteGuys, I think some of you guys have read too much grimdark! You're taking this story way too seriously.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed this enough to overlook any minor problems, and major problems like mindwiping Celestia. I will be waiting for more.
ReplyDeletePretty good story so far. This is basically what I would do as NMM. Granted, mindwiping someone is very much against my values, but I think NMM did it out of necessity here.
ReplyDeleteDusty the Royal Janitor has it right, this is defacto murder of Celestia and psychological torture of Twilight. You can try to spin it all you want, but that is what it is.
ReplyDeleteAnd that makes the story extremely badly written, because it is taking these horrible acts and pretending that they're actually benevolence. I wonder if the author has actually stopped to think about what would really happen if you did this kind of thing to people. It's not like this is a hypothetical question, because people *have* done this kind of thing to others, and the results are pretty ugly.
I managed to make it through the first two chapters before I couldn't read anymore. This story is horrible.
@ShadeTail
ReplyDeleteI don't remember the story ever saying they were benevolence. Did I miss a part?
The author did talk about the story being lighthearted, but that's probably because it is not to be taken seriously. It's just a story, afterall.
@Logan Warner
ReplyDeleteThe story quite clearly paints Nightmare Moon as kind and benevolent from the very first line. It portrays her as an almost motherly figure. A good example is when Nightmare Moon makes a rather significant rant about how literally erasing Celestia from existence is more merciful than banishing her to the sun, something that, to say the least, is highly debatable.
And please don't give me that "just a story" nonsense. That is a cop-out. If something is bad or wrong, then it remains bad or wrong whether it's truth or fiction. This story portrays murder and psychological torture as, at worst, mild jokes.
@ShadeTail
ReplyDeleteDuuuuude, chill. The sisters do bad stuff to each other. Let me remind you, celestia didn't send NMM to the moon for a thousand years, she sent her for eternity (in this story, for wanting to change of the sun looked) and later the stars helped her escape. That doesn't justify what NMM does, but the show already puts "Personal eternal hell" as something justifiable. As for what she does to twilight, sure is ugly, but she knew she was escaping, she just wanted to give an "I'm an evil, sadistic queen" show. The story doesn't intend to put GRIMDARK as something laughable, it just wants to show some nice cute NMM. NMM didn't send celestia to the sun for eternity. And that's a definition of hell.
The main problem with the fic is the fact that thoughts are not set off somehow; this is the problem so many people above have.
ReplyDeleteA few times this causes multiple characters' thoughts in the same paragraph, which is a big nono.
It was...well....it wasn't as good as I hoped. It mighthave tried to be funny, but really wasn't too much. As the fact that she proves to truly actually BE "grimdark NMM" despite what the tags say, really just takes away the entire three previous chapters. And the last scene didn't make all that much sense ANYWAY.
@ShadeTail
ReplyDeleteThe story paints her that way cause it's a first-person narrative and most of it is from her point of view (were you not reading Twilight's parts? She doesn't think NMM is evil exactly, but certainly doesn't think NMM is very nice.) NMM isn't going to think that she herself is a terrible pony. The self-bias NMM has is very realistic.
We can indeed debate all day about the benevolence of mindwiping instead of banishment, but it doesn't matter cause the story never said that it was. That was NMM's thoughts. Argue with that fictional character if you want her to stop thinking that way.
This one is rather good so far, I really like the humor in it, and the shipping moments are downright hilarious. I can't wait to see how this turns out!
ReplyDelete@ Dusty
ReplyDeleteFair enough. I didn't want to say you weren't entitled to your opinion, just that I had a different one.
I could offer an alternative view on every point you made to me, but I'd rather just let it go. Opinions can't be wrong after all. And I think this story has become controversial enough without the arguing.
Still reading this, certainly needs some tidying up. That said: This is the first 'cheerful psychopath' version of NMM I've seen, and it's quite interesting. I have to agree with Logan Warner; she does evil things but she wouldn't view herself as evil.
ReplyDeleteThe choice of tags is also interesting; one pony's comedy is anothers grimdark I guess.
Oh man I really wanted to read this because the description made it sound hilarious and like a good read. I can't get past the writing. The lack of proper grammar and the constant switches between internal monologues and narrative are too jarring to make the story readable.
ReplyDeleteI love the story. The comedy and premise are amusing, especially Sunny.
ReplyDeleteHowever, that grammar. It's like a thousand rabid cats clawing at the inside of my eyelids because there's so much. It's mostly just dialogue and thoughts. I read the entire thing because I liked it, but it was painful in that aspect. Beyond that, I enjoyed the hell out it.
I've had a non-stop nauseous feeling, burrowing into the bottom of my stomach and making me feel sick, since Nightmare Moon first revealed that she wiped Celestia's memories, removed her life's experiences and took her power. More so from the memories and experiences than the power. Those things are what makes someone who they are. Without them, her identity is destroyed. Celestia is gone. She might as well be dead. I like Sunny, but that doesn't mean it's the slightest bit okay that Celestia's mind had to die to make way for her.
ReplyDeleteDon't get me wrong, I'm liking the premise here, and I'm going to continue reading (with the hope that Celestia gets her memories and personality back at some point). I just can't laugh at the humor in the face of what Nightmare Moon did to Celestia, and that the narrative seems to be playing it off as not a big deal doesn't make me feel any better. At the very least, Twilight should be EXTREMELY upset that her mentor, the pony who taught her everything she knows, who practically helped raise her, who she respects so much, doesn't know who she is. Doesn't remember any birthday gifts she might have given Twilight, or any gifts she might have received from Twilight, over all the years she's known her. Doesn't remember any of the praise she's ever given, any of the pride she undoubtedly felt when Twilight succeeded at some new spell, any of the conversations they have ever had. And yet, beyond those initial ten seconds of anger in chapter one, she's shown no negative feelings on the matter. And neither does anybody else when she tells her story to her friends in chapter three.
Is it weird that this strikes me as monstrous? Yes, Celestia banished her to the moon for a thousand years, and I can't imagine that would've been much fun either, and I even understand that Nightmare Moon had to do something to prevent what she perceived to be a threat to her safety. But the narrative itself seems to be defending Nightmare Moon, implying that irreversibly destroying Celestia's memories and personality, her very identity that she had been building for OVER a thousand years and effectively replacing her with somebody new, is so much better, and I can't disagree any more strongly without having an aneurysm. This has effected me far more than most [Grimdark] fics with well-written, believable and emotional character deaths have. There's just something about destroying a person's mind that seems inherently, horrifyingly wrong. :\
For everypony irked by Night Mare manipulating Celestia's memories, in case you haven't, you should really watch the season three finale of Warehouse 13.
ReplyDeleteH.G. Wells, a very prominent character in season two, had a very similar experience, also as a punishment. And they deemed it very humane compared to the alternatives.
And one alternative was being imprisoned just like Luna had been, but instead of in the moon, she could have been frozen, then sealed in copper.
She even did it willingly, knowing full-well what would happen to herself.
Also, there was another situation where a character split his mind in half, trying to create the most advanced AI ever. Half of his mind was imprisoned in a decommissioned computer, while the rest was left behind in his body, and he was institutionalized because they thought he just lost it. No one knew what happened till over two decades later.
His genius was trapped in the computer, while his love of games and puzzles and challenges (and his rationality) were left to wander.
Sunnova... another unfinished one, completely capturing my mind. Need the next chapter! ><
ReplyDelete@instantrainbow
ReplyDeleteExcept, from how you describe it, Wells chose to be 'reborn' willingly and completely aware, as atonement for her crimes. Celestia, on the other hand, did nothing of the sort and had her PERSONALITY stolen away against her will. Plus, I don't see how that AI comment is at all relevant.
@Iliana Bliss
ReplyDeleteEvent picking and choosing what is changed will change someone. Even if it's just one aspect.
And Wells chose to have her mind sealed away on a 'disk'. All her memories and personality were intact. Her body was given a completely new mind.
And compared to what Night Mare could have done, she chose the most humane option. And it wasn't copper, but bronze. While someone is bronzed, their mind is still completely awake. They couldn't hear or see anything except what was in their own head. Night Mare was subjected to the same punishment. She couldn't move, couldn't talk. She was left with nothing but her own thoughts to keep her company.
Also, H.G.'s intact mind was kept in a dark place, only able to ever get out via a hologram, which only happened maybe two-three times in a several month span.
I think we can all agree that what NMM did to Celestia was completely evil. After all, without the Elements to purify her, she is still that same twisted and misguided caricature of Princess Luna.
ReplyDeleteHowever, Sunny is happy, healthy and safe. She does not grieve for her lost self. Is it a positive outcome? Hell no. Is it way better than it could have been? Hell yeah. Is NMM still a bitch? Of hourse! Doesn't make the story any less situationally funny or well written. And just cause NMM can't undo her dirty work, doesn't mean it can't be done.
I stopped reading because of the formatting. I sort of have basic formatting/grammar requirements when I decided to devote my sparse free time to fanfiction, and this failed to meet them. Which is disappointing, because there seems to be some interesting debate going on.
ReplyDeleteWas there any indication of Celestia's memories being possible to restore? If so, that may lessen the horror. Because if not, it strikes me as a definite note of repugnant evil the author seems to be trying to avoid.
Also, been hearing Twilight didn't have much of a reaction to it. What gives? Twilight adores Celestia, of course she'd be bothered by it.
I think these two factors are what's breaking some critic's suspension of disbelief, and as a result they can't ignore the other flaws of the story.
Just my 2 cents.
@instantrainbow
ReplyDeleteFirst: I know nothing about Warehouse 13, and so there's no need to mention things like bronze. And you're not making a good case for yourself. She was altered against her will, UNLIKE Wells, who apparently still has her mind and can influence the outside word. The comment about Bronzed still is irrelevant to this situation, plus, we know nothing about how NMM felt while on the moon. And I can't say this enough, WELLS CHOSE TO HAVE HER MIND CHANGED WILLINGLY.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI need to check my email more often, I could've read this two days ago.
ReplyDeleteNew chapter out again.
ReplyDeleteJust thought I should mention. I REALLY like this series. I like the fact that Twilight is going along with Nightmare without actually forgiving her. I like the fact that Nightmare has such duality. She's less evil and more like a sociopath, really. I also love ho she she trollngly humiliates Twilight without actually lessening her. She actually respects Twi, just keeps her off balance.
ReplyDeleteIs it a bad thing that I find the conversations going on in the comment section enormously entertaining?
ReplyDeleteI'll be honest, I tried reading this for the sake of having a better grasp of The Sweetie Chronicles; however, I personally couldn't get past the first chapter.
ReplyDeleteFirst, the narrative is really clunky, even beyond the grammar errors, the prose tries to tell us that characters are feeling certain ways but the dialog and actions come across as somewhat stilted.
Second, NNM's actions in the first chapter alone cement that she's quite gleefully torturing Twilight mentally, and that she seems to expect Twilight to be amused by this. Even beyond the other moral issues brought up by various posters, NNM seems to be portrayed as a Joker like character but the story seems to think that it's ok to act like this.
Third, NNM is acting extremely childish, from telling a shocked Twilight that she ate Celestia (regardless of whether or not she expected Twilight to believe her), to ranting about being called a monster, when by all rights she has admitted to trying to break Twilight Sparkle and being upset that she might have done it too soon! If that's not monstrous, I shudder to think what is.
However, I do realize that this is all just my opinion, and I really did go into this hoping that I might enjoy it, but I couldn't get into the Mood Whiplash between horror and humor, Moral Dissonance and a narrative that didn't deliver the over-the-top yet funny fic that I'd been hoping for.
"Through reading chapter one I had trouble grasping the head and meat of the story. It sent me into uncertainty with the slight gawky narrative and the slight randomness between certain parts of the paragraphs. Though there were errors in chapter one, I say the story line was a blush inducing, and laugh filling beginning to this story. NIGHTMARE MOON was more like a "offbeat DISCORD" yet with a slight innuendo and cynically comical eccentricity. The pictures in my mind were vivid as I read on; Twilight in an "oriental belle-dancers afire while being chained gave me a relevancy to something I remember. The "new CELESTIA" having a total name and body remake. I was caught off guard at NIGHTMARE MOON'S bizarre dialog, it was very out-of-character, however I was intrigued by her new actions and speech. I give Chapter one a 3.69 star. I look forward to try another taste in this new NIGHTMARE MOON and CELESTIA or "SUNNY". I will give further word after I have read chapter two in my next Critic."
ReplyDelete-FoxMane
"I must say that chapter 2 was a comical, perversive, and a cussing good time. I read on throughout and found misplaced quotations, grammar errors,each characters thoughts not contained in colons. I slipped in and out during the second and third page which as an ED critic cannot over-look. I found numerous grammar errors and found it a slight difficult to grab the "visual cinematic film" in my head as I read on which needed more description of what i tried to unveil. Although, what I found that counteracted most, if not almost all the errors I encountered in this "rib-tickling" and "seductive comedy" which double teamed it with the wise cracks made it an enjoyable chapter indeed. I shall give further word on my next critic after chapter three."
ReplyDelete-FoxMane
"Chapter 3 was more pleasurable than I hoped. An original comedy of the "cartoony" NIGHTMARE MOON, with far less Quote errors then the last two chapters. The five ponies (elements) were in sync with their personality and gave a quick rush during the middle of TWILIGHT and SUNNY'S so called "rescue". It beautifully and ever so smoothly played in my head with full "cinematic visual". With ease I had far less trouble seeing play like "if" not "almost" an actual warped unseen Episode of "MY LITTLE PONY: FRIENDSHIP IS MAGIC. Although the tension was dry, but gained strength with SUNNY'S "accidental" mistake of finding a magical portal supposedly readying a gateway for NIGHTMARE MOON'S retrieval of her sister and her..ehem.."property". I shall give further word on chapter 4 in my next critic."
ReplyDelete-FoxMane
"Chapters 4 was a "spellbind of laughter". I laughed as I saw NIGHTMARE MOON make yet another "comical entrance" into TWILIGHT SPARKLES' home "rear first". Chapter 5 did not let me down as I read-on. I could not stifle a chuckle as I visualized TWILIGHT copy NIGHTMARE MOON in one of her saucy yet semi-perverted vocabulary and when SUNNY thought TWILIGHT SPARKLE would "ravage" her while she bunks with TWILIGHT. I almost "lost my head" after reading that NIGHTMARE MOON behaved like a little filly when TWILIGHT stole a strand of her vocabulary and scaring TWILIGHT almost to death. I give chapter 5 a 4.5 star. I shall give further word after reading chapter 6 in my next critic."
ReplyDelete-FoxMane
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete