[Grimdark][Sad-Tragedy] And Twilight ran. She ran so far away...
Author: theamberfox
Description: A long drought has created food shortages across all of Equestria. In an effort to restore the country to its former glory, Princess Celestia sends Twilight Sparkle to the northern country of Prance to seek aid. But when something goes wrong, it starts a tragic chain of events that seems to have no end. With a sinister plot for power developing in the shadows of the sun, the entire world will be changed forever.All Links After the Break!
Shadows of the Sun Part 1
Shadows of the Sun Part 2
Shadows of the Sun Part 3
Shadows of the Sun Part 4
Shadows of the Sun Part 5
Shadows of the Sun Part 6
Shadows of the Sun Part 7
Shadows of the Sun Part 8
Shadows of the Sun Part 9
Shadows of the Sun Part 10
Shadows of the Sun Part 11
Shadows of the Sun Part 12
Shadows of the Sun Part 13
Shadows of the Sun Part 14 (New!)
Shadows of the Sun (All Links)
Additional Tags: Sad, serious, dark, death, government
102 comments:
:3
ReplyDeleteMassive brohoof for the "A Flock Of Seagulls" reference.
ReplyDeleteIs the title an audioslave reference?
ReplyDeleteim skeptical of this beyond
ReplyDeleteOh oops, thats Shadow ON the sun. my bad
ReplyDeleteSorry man, the part of me that screams "Grammar nazi" is burning up now, making this hard to read. I'll give it another go once a revised version comes out.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely got me interested looking forward to more.
ReplyDelete...Prance?
ReplyDelete@ToonNinja I'd guess a ponified France.
ReplyDeleteWhat the heck is up with all these Grimdark/Sad stories lately.
ReplyDeleteSeems like every new story is labeled as Grimdark/Sad and most of the time it's just so author can get some easy emotions out of the reader by killing off some ponies.
@Crazy
ReplyDeleteI figured, but it seems so out of place. The pic, the tags, the description... it all sounds so serious, but then I just lose it at Prance.
@Eytan
ReplyDeleteI thought it was an original title. As it turns out, it's also the title of some Norwegian bands seventh studio album.
Go figure.
@Stanley Ignatius Richards
That comes from doing all your editing by yourself. ;)
@Crazy
Yeah, I know it's just a bad pun. I was hoping it wouldn't kill the mood that much.
@Damazania
The incomplete tag got missed, this is only chapter 1. You'll just have to believe me when I say that this is going to earn the Grimdark/Sad label soon enough.
Oof. WAY too much showing, not nearly enough telling. So much info shoved in there, so little actual emotion portrayed, and so many grammatical issues. Needs an editor, badly.
ReplyDeleteWhat else... Celestia was out of character, there was no reason given for a drought in Equestria- really? A drought in a country that can manufacture its own weather? Where the Princess can control the sun and the strength of it? Give a reason for the drought. Something interesting, a hook.
And sending Twilight by herself on a dangerous mission of life-or-death and letting her be gone for three MONTHS without inquiring about it? Not really realistic.
Work on your prose and logic, and you'll have an interesting story on your hands. Until then, though, it has too many issues to recommend.
More! This is utterly captivating!
ReplyDeleteKilling Twilight seems very in vogue at the moment.
ReplyDeleteNice story, I don't read a whole lot of fanfic so i have no critiques on repetition, but i really enjoyed it. I want more!!! I hope E.D keeps posting this.
ReplyDeleteI am hoping and praying that Prance has some sinister motives, and actually has Twilight in their Custody, alive... Oh please, oh please, oh please...
ReplyDeleteI'm getting quite burned out on all these ultra grimdark fare where people wanna just kill off all the ponies. These are the freaking elements of harmony we're talking about.
Anyway, I'm gonna see if some sinister plot is revealed in Prance. If Twi is dead... I'm not sure I even want to continue. I like the story so far, but I'm making assumptions here on whether or not it's a story I will want to finish, I'll wait for some chapters to see...
That stone is only a memorial, not a marker. The soil beneath IS empty. No pony has yet to see a body.
More Grimdark/Sad eh? Is every submitted story really like this, or are the happy ones just so bad they dont make it through? Killing ponies is so cheap way to get emotions, it works though but we could really REALLY use more, normal/comedy fanfics. I'd really appreciate attempts to make more canon like or randomly funny fanfics.
ReplyDeleteAt least the season 2 is coming so this whole pony stuff can again provide me with something thats funny and positive.
I'm sorry for my rant about fanfics in general in here but it kinda relates to this one too. This one was alright but nothing really to make it stand out of others I've seen. Ofc that's the case with most fics...
@Johuotar
ReplyDeleteMy theory is that the Happy Luna Competition did draw out all the happy and now everybody just writes Grimdark/Sad.
Why do I get so much enjoyment out of pain and death?
ReplyDelete"Dark thoughts come to me
And contaminate my mind"
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@Moonshine
ReplyDeleteI did some more editing and updated the story with the changes. I also added a very small section that should hopefully close the obvious plot hole that you revealed about the drought. (If you want to look for it, it's on the fourth page. I'm hoping that it's sensible enough and doesn't appear to be too sloppy.)
Hmm, I'm not really impressed.
ReplyDeleteIt feels more like a stream of disjointed scenes than a story. Twilight sets out, Twilight doesn't return, now Twilight has a funeral... wait what? Supposedly a lot of time passes between those scenes, but in the end it looks extremely rushed. We don't see the characters actually react to her prolonged absence, start worrying about her, start to accept that she may have died... it just gets dropped on us in the funeral scene. It felt artificial to me.
Another problem is that pretty much nothing happens in this chapter. We're told that stuff is happening - drought, Twilight's journey - but we don't get to see any of it. And the second half of the chapter is just a prolonged description of the characters mourning. The funeral was about the only scene where something actually happened.
There's also WAY too much infodumping. Was describing how Celestia accepted Twilight as her student necessary? I mean, we all watched the show, right? And I fail to see how the veery prolonged description of the Council was relevant to the story at the moment.
Plus, the setup is not the most logical one anyway. Assuming that Cloudsdale is the only pegasi city in Equestria is weird. Also, Celestia couldn't spare like two guards to watch over Twilight? Does she need to petition that Council about where she moves her own guard?
And that's not even mentioning that in canon, drought could probably never happen.
You need to reconsider the structure. And have something happen, really. That's what stories are about.
PS If Prance got their supplies by grinding ponies into spam / sacrificing them to Cthulhu, I call bullshit on this fic ;).
@StyxD
ReplyDeleteYeah, I've been getting this kind of reaction a bit lately. Seems like I rushed through the first chapter a little too much. I'm trying to work on that a bit and the next chapter, which should be out soon, will have a lot less "information" and a lot more "story".
I was always told that a writer needed to establish his characters and make no assumptions on what the readers should know. That's why I spent some time explaining who Twilight, Rarity and Celestia were, even if everyone here knows who they are already. I tried to be brief.
The drought thing has been complained about a lot too. No one seems to find it believable. I can try to explain it a little bit here for those who are interested. I might also include something in the author's notes later on, but it will be a copy/paste of what's here.
It's difficult to come up with a reasonable natural disaster that is preventable in a world where the princess and it's people can do just about anything they want with the weather. I decided on a drought because the hazards of a drought and a food shortage are preventable on some level and a drought can happen in an instant, catching everyone off-guard when the rain just stops. A drought can also be prolonged, it can last as long as you want it to. Tornados, earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, volcanoes, wildfires... they all seemed much more unreasonable given the circumstances. So as merely a means of "getting the stone rolling", I thought a drought worked pretty well. The drought will have very little to do with the story after about the fourth chapter.
Celestia couldn't send Twilight with anyone else because of the circumstances. She has to wade through a lot of political nonsense before she can get anything done. That's how it works in the real world too. That's why it was important to talk about the council in the first chapter. If I had left that out then I would have no explanation for her going on the journey alone.
I don't want to give away too many spoilers, but I think I can tell you that Prance is not grinding up ponies or sacrificing them to demons. (I agree. That would be ridiculous.)
Alright. Sorry if that's really long, but I hope I covered mostly everything now. I really hope you keep reading the story so that you can see how it all unfolds, but if you have any more concerns I will always try and improve the story so I love your feedback.
@Systemdertoten
ReplyDeleteI was about to comment the same thing
Ouch I feel the criticism of this story is too harsh. While it certainly has flaws I've found it a decent read thus far. The biggest difference of opinion I've had with the second chapter is Twilight seemed far too psychologically put together and calm, personal perspective is that after the hell her physical condition and length of time being gone she should've been very close to a mental break, if not already having undergone one.
ReplyDeleteWith all the page time given to the council I wonder what significant role they are going to play going forward in driving the story. Good luck going forward finding an editor(I seemed to notice less errors this chapter but that could be ascribed to me being tired).
I have trouble believing that Twilight would be as fine as she is so soon. For one, killing a character off and then bringing them back the very next chapter, especially when the chapters are so short, is risky business.
ReplyDeleteYou dedicated a large portion of the chapter to a funeral that is entirely meaningless mere paragraphs later. We don't get to have that feeling off loss sink in and have some characterization go before it goes "Whoops all better". I just can't dig that.
Second, for the sake of argument, I could see the instant death/revive thing work sort of if there is a display of it actually meaning something. There was absolutely no exposition on the matter before the story moves on. That's my biggest pet peeve and problem with numerous stories, here and elsewhere.
I hate skin-deep dramatic turns. I have trouble trusting a story that dusts off emotional trauma so early in its narrative. It means it'll probably happen again and each time devaulues the rest of the story. I read fanfiction because when it's good, it's fucking awesome. It's all about taking the characters you love and putting them in situations the creators never could, seeing their believable reactions and getting all excited because you love those characters. If those reactions mean nothing or aren't expanded upon enough, what are we here for?
I can't say this next part enough though: You can't get discouraged or give up because someone bad mouths your work. Improve it. Get better. Each time you write your previous mistakes glare at you and they are easy to avoid.
It's always difficult to write criticism, for me, because some authors take it way too personally. Even now in this post i've edited it down to avoid sounding know-it-all-ish or like I'm talking down to you.
Believe me, I'm impressed that you are writing. I have no faith in my own ability to weave a story that doesn't suck.
Concentrated Criticism Corner: Too much information, not enough characterization. Too much emotional investment in a meaningless portion of the story. (If it isn't meaningless for parts unwritten, it sure seems like it from Twilight's characterization)
Keep going, and keep revising. Let me know if you need help. (Jeez, ya always sound like an asshole when ya say that. Offering help on the internet always comes off as condescending)
This story is alright but it could use some editing here and there
ReplyDeleteBringing Twilight back so early on in the story is a bit off really. What you could have done was wait a while to ressurect her. Instead of Twilight coming back with minor scrapes and bruises prehaps she could have back with a few more serious injuries.
Titanium
Yeah, I realize that bringing Twilight back this early and in such a pristine psychological condition is probably going to be a little difficult to accept. It's going to make a lot of the first chapter seem pointless, but I assure you it's not.
ReplyDeleteIf you're enjoying the story, but you find some aspects unbelievable, I really want to encourage you to keep reading. Some of the characters are shallow for a reason, just as some of the events are unbelievable for a reason too.
If Prance is to the north... Equestria is... Spain?
ReplyDeleteDon't know why but that's rather... disappointing.
@Darkfoxx
ReplyDeletewat.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete............. Drought?.......... (Facepalms) Celestia controls the sun... she probably controls how hot it is and if not she at least can move it farther away so there's less heat. Ugh... If you wanted a preventable disaster then have it be an earthquake, it's easy. Prance could have an earthquake preventing device or something. It's magic after all.
ReplyDeleteWhy would Celestia send Twilight on her own? You don't send someone you care about to a far off country on their own with only their own hoofpower to get them there.
There is WAY too much telling and not enough showing in this. It's like Metroid Other M.
Ugh... So someone goes missing past the time they were supposed to come back and Celestia doesn't do anything until three months later? She doesn't get word until three months later? If it took three weeks then that means it would take about about 10 and a half days to get there and back which means word would be able to reach Canterlot that Twilight hadn't shown up long before then, Celestia would have either sent a letter that would get a reply, or have sent someone else up there. No one waits six weeks to start worrying. UGH!
Why would the council want to send one person alone to a foreign country? Unless they're all idiots, or somehow want to overthrow Celestia, who seems to have no power in the government presented here anyway.
There's too much of this council shoved on us after so many other things. It's... like you wanted to write about a council in Equestria, a political game so to speak, but needed some sort backdrop for it and needed to include the actual characters from the show in order to generate interest in the story. The part with the council has the most talking and describing instead of long over views (Though it too has them) so I assume the main focus of the story will likely have to do with them.
*sigh* I just... can't read this. It just doesn't suit my tastes.
@Specter Von Baren
ReplyDeleteI really don't think an earthquake would be appropriate. It can't be a continuing problem like a drought can. It's just one earthquake, maybe a few aftershocks, and it's done. There's no sense of fear and panic that the earthquake might last forever without becoming unreasonable. The other problem is that it's a lot more difficult to prevent an earthquake. You can prepare for it, yes, but to prevent plate tectonics entirely would be ridiculous. I would definitely have a lot more complaints about that than a drought.
In the first chapter it's established that Celestia is in denial, so she refuses to accept Twilight's death. I also described how some ponies worried about her and asked, but Celestia made up excuses for her absence. So it's not like no one worried and no one knew. Celestia knew something was wrong and wouldn't accept it.
The focus of the story is supposed to be Celestia and the politics in Equestria. The council has a lot to do with that, but it's not going to take over completely.
Anyways, if you don't want to continue reading it, that's okay. I know that I can't keep everyone's attention. But, as I said earlier, everything has its place and is done for a very specific reason. As the story progresses, you'll learn what those reasons are. I realize that this type of story progression is a little hard to follow and if I write anymore fanfiction, I'll probably avoid this route.
My biggest criticism of this chapter is I feel Twilight should've had more of a downward spiral, that one encounter while traumatic didn't seem to be enough to justify the first few chapters worth of anguish. Either Twilight captured, mistreated and struggling to escape or perhaps just more negative encounters outside Equestria. Just feel like the trip needs more fleshing out as: 1) Twilight is a/the protagonist of this story and 2) What happened to her on the trip seems likely to drive what happens going forward.
ReplyDeleteOtherwise I like the Twilight pissed at the council angle and that the Council storyline and Twilight storyline seem to be melding better and look to probably merge within the next chapter or two. I do like the story and hope my criticism is constructive rather than just prickish.
For some reason I was hoping Twilight didn't actually come back and that princess was gone nuts imagining her or something but okey.
ReplyDeleteI'm a little overwhelmed by the council(?) pony talks.
Ah, much better written than the first two chapters. So you need a beta author huh? Well I can do it if you want, I'm pretty good at spotting errors.
ReplyDelete@iastfan112
ReplyDeleteDon't forget that Twilight hasn't actually finished telling her story. The bandit encounter was just a small part of a very long journey. She has still yet to say anything about what Prance was doing or why they lied about her arriving in Prance.
I really appreciate your comments. It's nice to receive some positive feedback every once in a while.
@Atiarotias
A lot of what the council does is supposed to be a little confusing. I want to establish that the council, in it's present form, is corrupt. At least two of the members, Wind Dancer and Vortex, are openly apathetic about most of the political decisions and even more are established as being completely unwilling to change anything. In a group of five people, excluding the director, that's not really acceptable is it?
So the council is one of the ways I'm trying to justify the drought and Twilight's solo journey. A corrupt government wouldn't want to fix the problem of the drought if they're not directly affected by it. They're also not going to try very hard to prevent it.
@Specter Von Baren
Well I'm glad I changed your mind about the story. Thank you for the compliment.
More than anything else, I just need someone that can briefly read over the chapters and give me some input before I send them to Sethisto. If you're still interested, send me your email. I'll try and have the fourth chapter finished and sent to you by Saturday.
@theamberfox
ReplyDeleteOh okay, glad to hear there is more to Twilight's story, interesting choice to split it up as you've done but it definitely could work out well.
@theamberfox
ReplyDeleteVery well. Here it is. [email protected]
Chapters 2 & 3 are way better then the first one, that's for sure. I don't even mind bringing Twilight from the dead, mostly because her death as presented in the first chapter was an extremely lame one, with little emotional effect.
ReplyDeleteStill, I see problems here. I'm not convinced that the council would prevent sending even a single measly guard along with Twilight. In the scope of the disaster, what would one soldier change? And what, the expedition that could possibly save Equestria was chopped meat to them?
I also think that Twilight was a little too composed in the bandit encounter. Carefully analyzing the weight of the stone to throw at one of the thugs?
Now, for the council as it seems they'll be taking up most of the story. First, I still hold my opinion that the infodump about them in the first chapter was unnecessary. Chapter 2, at the meeting, would be a much better place for that. Yes, that would mean that the references to the council in the first chapter wouldn't be completely clear, but I could stomach that for the sake of not disturbing the story's pacing.
Also, for the council that's supposed to be composed of educated nobles, only Goldenroot and Thunderhorn have any qualifications. The rest are celebrities. Who even elected them? Maybe that's a sign of council's decay, but why is Celestia not doing jack about it?
As for the conflict within the council, as it appears now it's completely shallow. Goldenroot says "Let's have equal rights for everybody!" and Thunderhorn says "No wai, classicism FTW". It's pretty obvious who is supposed to be right here. Of course, it can still be turned on its head in the future, so I'm probably too hasty to comment on that, but I can't not notice that.
The story's pacing and structure are certainly getting better, but I'm still concerned about its believability.
@StyxD
ReplyDeleteThe first chapter will probably be revised at some point. It doesn't really fit with the rest of the story anymore, so I believe your reaction is justified.
The council is corrupt. I want that to be painfully obvious. I want you to hate the council as Celestia's antagonist, but not necessarily the characters inside it. That's not an easy thing to do, so I tried to make their actions seem ridiculous. So ridiculous even, that you begin to question what they do.
Celestia hasn't done anything... yet. Obviously that's a major part of the story and it's set up in the 4th chapter. Something will happen to the council in the 5th chapter and I want it to seem justified.
Twilight's reaction to the bandit's is kind of strange isn't it? This is an intentional and major part of the plot.
I read the first chapter and have the same reaction as most of the people commenting here. Some build-up in between Twilight setting off and "dying" would have been nice. By the way I'm glad you didn't kill her, Dash and Twilight seem to always die in fics labeled with "sad" and it kind of loses it's emotional affect when you see it done to death (no pun intended).
ReplyDeleteAnyway some paragraphs on how the other Ponies are coping with the drought could fit in between there, especially Applejack and the rest of the Apple family. As I wonder what they would be doing if the apple orchards were drying up and dying or how Spike is dealing with the absence of Twilight.
When I got to the second chapter, I found myself really starting to enjoy this though.
Keep up the good work.
PS: What's the deal with airline food? ;)
@theamberfox
ReplyDeleteYeah, I was actually about to E-mail you about us working on remaking it. The parts after it a very good but I think right now the first chapter is scaring people off.
@ToTheMoonYourHighness
ReplyDeleteAh, it's nice to see a friendly face. (Metaphorically speaking of course.)
I'm glad you're enjoying the story. I'm in the middle of rewriting the first chapter, so maybe I'll let you know when it's almost done and I can send you a copy before it's published.
I'm not big on developing characters that I have no plans on using for more than one scene, so I'll have to give it some serious thought on whether or not I want to include anyone else from the main cast. It's certainly something to think about, though. (Does that give away spoilers for Rarity?)
Since I can't exactly break it up into two chapters, the entire thing is either going to be almost completely rewritten or extended by about ten pages.
@Specter Von Baren
Yeah, I think it's definitely a good idea to change it before I start on chapter five. I've already started on the revision, but it's not easy work. It's like a puzzle, everything has to fit together perfectly or I'll have to rewrite the entire thing. As I see it now, the second chapter might have to be rewritten slightly too. (If only to avoid redundancy.)
This is turning out to be a really interesting story with a lot of weird plot twists. I don't usually like OC ponies, but Goldenroot and Wind Dancer are believable enough to keep my attention. I really hate how so many of authors create the boring stereotypical "Mary Sue" character and just expect everyone to be okay with it. When a character has no flaws whatsoever, they're like Superman. Sure the idea seems cool, but in reality, it's really boring.
ReplyDeleteFOR THE LOVE OF CELESTIA, COULD WE PLEASE STOP WITH THESE GRIM TALES??
ReplyDeleteI mean, seriously, it's like I don't know Equestria anymore...
Let's leave the brutal death, heart-wrending scrifice, and tear-jerking reminisces for a different series guys. I might de-bronifie if MLP becomes too fraught with these things. Let's lighten up, Pinkie-Pie style! Parties and friends and cupcakes...
...
Cupcakes?
CUPCAKES?!??
Oh dear Celestia... HAVE MERCY ON MY SOUL!!!! CURSE YOU GRIMDARK!!!!! <- (new villain? o.O )
Well, I'm finally caught up and can now proceed with lengthy comments.
ReplyDeleteThe beginning of the first fragment is much better now. The council 's introduction is more natural now and the feeling of events being rushed is somewhat mitigated because we don't actually see Twilight leaving just before she's gone missing in the next scene.
Although I have to ask: what is the point of Twilight's gala dress being in the pack she took to Prance? Beside triggering a tacky flashback?
Now, the fourth chapter I found rather boring, especially Celestia checking the damage to the city. I guess it had its purpose to the story, but meh. The part when Celestia and Luna reminisced about a restaurant that stood on the market *1000 years ago* (seriously, all the stuff she and Luna mention was probably gone centuries before the drought, so what's the point of bringing it up now?) seemed more pointless and even more dull.
But I liked the ending, when the protagonists of the "council arc" (for the lack of a better term) were shown in a different light - Goldenroot as a blinded idealist, and Vortex as the indifferent, lazy ass that she is. Using the very things they said when they first appeared. Clever.
The fifth chapter wasn't bad. Though again, I don't really like the overly dramatic descriptions of Celestia's emotions. Must she mope so much all the time? I know it's grimdark and all, but it's not like someone died yet ;). The line "Celestia’s pain stung like daggers in his heart" was when it got silly (especially when we were not given any foreshadowing or any apparent reason for Goldenroot to feel so strongly for Celestia).
To more remarks for this segment:
"It was
odd, the hallways were wide for a reason, but that reason was hiding in the shadows,
unwilling to reveal itself."
I got what you meant the second time I read that sentence. At first glance it looks like the reason for hallways to be wide is to be able to hide in the shadows.
"You’re both
late. The others have already been notified."
That scene would become 20% cooler if Celestia said "The others have already been taken care of". Just saying. :D
And honestly, can it get any more obvious where you're going with Goldenroot and Vortex?
I don't have much to say about Twilight's segment. I always like to see people's ides about what's beyond Equestria, so I enjoyed it.
PS Did I read your comment right? Did you suggest that Rarity is going to die a painful death after enduring hours of torture in Prancian (Prench?) dungeons? Oh how could you... ;P
NOTE: I will adress your earlier comments as well. I wrote them all out but they somehow got erased. >:(
ReplyDelete"That scene would become 20% cooler if Celestia said "The others have already been taken care of". Just saying. :D"
Actually, my editor asked me to change that line. Originally, I had "The others have already been dealt with." which is eerily close to what you have. He thought that she sounded too evil and conflicted with the rest of her actions and emotions. I agreed.
"And honestly, can it get any more obvious where you're going with Goldenroot and Vortex?"
I had some shipping between them in chapter 4, but once again, my editor asked me to remove it. I'm glad I did. It seemed tacky at the time. I know it's obvious and I want it to be. Their relationship is being used as a kind of "comic relief". I think the story would be too sad and depressing without them. Everything needs the right amount of balance right?
"PS Did I read your comment right? Did you suggest that Rarity is going to die a painful death after enduring hours of torture in Prancian (Prench?) dungeons? Oh how could you... ;P"
Uhhhhmmm... I'm going to do something with Rarity. That's all you need to know.
I prefer Prench, but I've been avoiding using the word because I think it sounds weird.
P.S. I'm being hard on my editor here, but he's really great and I'm really thankful that he's helping me out with this. It makes a significant difference to your work to have a second opinion on everything before it goes out the door.
Let's try this again...
ReplyDeleteI really love your comments. They're always so descriptive and helpful. I wish everyone could write something like this.
"The beginning of the first fragment is much better now. The council 's introduction is more natural now and the feeling of events being rushed is somewhat mitigated because we don't actually see Twilight leaving just before she's gone missing in the next scene."
Wonderful. I'm glad you liked it. I tried to use everyone's input when I made the revisions.
"Although I have to ask: what is the point of Twilight's gala dress being in the pack she took to Prance? Beside triggering a tacky flashback?"
I think that Twilight is the kind of character that would pack unnecessary things, like the dress and the encyclopaedia, "just in case she needs them."
I also used it to develop the relationship she has with Celestia without directly stating it like before. Did it work?
"Now, the fourth chapter I found rather boring, especially Celestia checking the damage to the city. I guess it had its purpose to the story, but meh. The part when Celestia and Luna reminisced about a restaurant that stood on the market *1000 years ago* (seriously, all the stuff she and Luna mention was probably gone centuries before the drought, so what's the point of bringing it up now?) seemed more pointless and even more dull."
I had to wrap up everything with the council and the law they were making and there was no elegant way of doing that. My editor asked me to include something about Celestia to break up the two council sections. I used it as an opportunity to develop her relationship with Luna as well as her disconnection with the country she is supposed to be ruling.
You've hit the nail on the head. It's not strange that she would be disturbed by the damage to the market, but it is strange that she would immediately jump back over a thousand years, to before Luna even became Nightmare Moon. Her character is changing and I want my readers to pick up on that.
"The fifth chapter wasn't bad. Though again, I don't really like the overly dramatic descriptions of Celestia's emotions. Must she mope so much all the time? I know it's grimdark and all, but it's not like someone died yet ;). The line "Celestia’s pain stung like daggers in his heart" was when it got silly (especially when we were not given any foreshadowing or any apparent reason for Goldenroot to feel so strongly for Celestia)."
Like above, I want people to notice that she's not exactly who she used to be. She's overly dramatic about all of this for an important reason, but you won't find out what that is until near the end.
Also, you're missing that Goldenroot was knighted, hence the title of 'Sir'. Only two ponies in Equestria could do that and he would need to have a strong relationship with at least one of them.
"I got what you meant the second time I read that sentence. At first glance it looks like the reason for hallways to be wide is to be able to hide in the shadows."
When you use analogies, the meaning can be lost. If my editor doesn't pick up on these, then there's nothing I can really do...
"P.S. I'm being hard on my editor here, but he's really great and I'm really thankful that he's helping me out with this. It makes a significant difference to your work to have a second opinion on everything before it goes out the door."
ReplyDeleteAww...
""I got what you meant the second time I read that sentence. At first glance it looks like the reason for hallways to be wide is to be able to hide in the shadows."
When you use analogies, the meaning can be lost. If my editor doesn't pick up on these, then there's nothing I can really do... "
My bad I guess. I did indeed notice it and it did take myself two reads to understand it but sometimes I don't point out things that stand out to me in your work because I feel that it's something that is part of your own personal touch. But if people are noticing these things then I'll instead point out everything that seems odd next time.
"Actually, my editor asked me to change that line. (...) He thought that she sounded too evil and conflicted with the rest of her actions and emotions. I agreed."
ReplyDeleteA-ha. I suggested that line as a joke, but mostly because Celestia's reply to Goldenroot's "What do you mean?" does sound as if she previously was suggesting something heinous. Whether a random Trollestia moment within a serious scene is appropriate/funny is a matter of personal taste. Do what you want, but do it all the way. Celestia telling Goldenroot not to worry makes her sound more evil then the line you changed.
"I had some shipping between them in chapter 4, but once again, my editor asked me to remove it. I'm glad I did. It seemed tacky at the time. I know it's obvious and I want it to be. Their relationship is being used as a kind of "comic relief". I think the story would be too sad and depressing without them."
I'll take it as "yes, it could". Kudos to the editor.
I suppose they do make it all more lighthearted, so the idea isn't bad. I just dislike heavy-handed romantic subplots whose outcomes I can see a mile away. Every bad writer seems to feel obliged to throw one in.
"I also used it to develop the relationship she has with Celestia without directly stating it like before. Did it work?"
I honestly have no idea. I fail to see what that scene was supposed to develop and how. Then again, I don't understand why you insist you must "develop" the relationship between Celestia and Twilight, despite it being quite explicit in the show itself.
"I used it as an opportunity to develop her relationship with Luna as well as her disconnection with the country she is supposed to be ruling. (...) Her character is changing and I want my readers to pick up on that."
The problem I have with that is that we didn't get to see her acting normally in the story. It's just easier to write it off as you making her act like that for the sake of drama.
"Also, you're missing that Goldenroot was knighted, hence the title of 'Sir'. Only two ponies in Equestria could do that and he would need to have a strong relationship with at least one of them."
Whoa whoa whoa. As for someone who claims you shouldn't make presumptions about what the reader knows, you make a HUGE leap here. Let's see:
1) There's no mention neither in the show nor here about ponies being knighted. Celestia does a knighting gesture over Twilight in s2e1, but it doesn't seem to have any special meaning.
2) "Sir" could just be a polite way of addressing a noble-born or perhaps a member of the council.
3) Being knighted by a ruler doesn't immediately imply adoration for that ruler. It was supposed to be that way in an ideal feudal society, but that's not really how it is.
And with chapter 6 we've finally arrived in Grimdark Central, where ponies bleed and suffer and die. Hahahahaha! Delicious as ever. But!
You use some really weird words there. English is not my first language, but really, did you mean to say that Twilight "presided" in Prance? Or that Nathan was levitating a "tomb"?
And I'm really disappointed that Pierre's plan is just to take over the world. Is he red to reference M. Bison? Come on, give him a cause worth dying for.
Also, he never tells Twilight how he solved the drought.
Also, flying through two windows could probably injure a pegasus heavily, possibly kill her, but "The entire event had destroyed her body and now I could hardly recognized her."? I can't quite picture that. It's not like she got covered in acid or something.
@StyxD
ReplyDelete"I suppose they do make it all more lighthearted, so the idea isn't bad. I just dislike heavy-handed romantic subplots whose outcomes I can see a mile away. Every bad writer seems to feel obliged to throw one in."
I really don't want it to turn into a big deal, I just want it to be a light diversion. I want the two to have a reason for spending so much time together and a reason for what they may or may not happen later on.
"I honestly have no idea. I fail to see what that scene was supposed to develop and how. Then again, I don't understand why you insist you must "develop" the relationship between Celestia and Twilight, despite it being quite explicit in the show itself."
Well I think that everyone has their own interpretation of their relationship in the show. Some might view it as purely a student/teacher relationship and if that's all it is, why would Celestia be so upset? I want to develop it and make the kind of emotional relationship they share very transparent. If you're already looking at it that way then, yeah I agree with you, it's going to seem a little pointless.
"The problem I have with that is that we didn't get to see her acting normally in the story. It's just easier to write it off as you making her act like that for the sake of drama."
Well now you're going in both directions. You're saying that it's reasonable to assume that Twilight and Celestia have an intimate relationship in the show, so it's unreasonable to establish that in my story. Next, you say it's unreasonable to assume that Celestia's not completely melodramatic all the time so it's reasonable and even required to establish that in the story.
You see what I mean? I understand what you're talking about, but she is a one thousand year old princess that has watched nearly every friend she ever had grow up and die. Yet, in the show, I can easily say that 99% of the time she is incredibly calm about nearly everything that happens. I only ever remember her crying once when she sees her sister again for the first time in a thousand years. I don't know, to me that seems like a reasonable excuse for crying.
I did also establish this in chapter 1: "It was a well known fact that the princess was able to conceal her inner feelings and keep a calm composure in the face of adversity, but she only ever tried to do so in public." However, now she's yelling at Goldenroot and Vortex and crying in the middle of the market district.
There are a few more, perhaps less obvious examples in the story and I am still working on her character so I will have some solid ground to stand on regarding this point. Also, wait for chapter 7.
@StyxD
ReplyDelete"Whoa whoa whoa. As for someone who claims you shouldn't make presumptions about what the reader knows, you make a HUGE leap here. Let's see:"
I do establish this in chapter 7 (which is going through the review process now). His title wasn't supposed to be any more than subtle hint before that chapter. In all honesty, I was getting ahead of myself and it would have been better to just say something like "You'll find out". (Oh well, what's done is done.)
"You use some really weird words there. English is not my first language, but really, did you mean to say that Twilight "presided" in Prance? Or that Nathan was levitating a "tomb"?"
Yes, but I see that I made a couple of silly spelling errors that change their meaning.
First, I meant to say "resided" which is to be a resident of or live in. Second, I meant to say "tome" which is a large book. I'll fix those two, thanks for pointing them out.
"And I'm really disappointed that Pierre's plan is just to take over the world. Is he red to reference M. Bison? Come on, give him a cause worth dying for."
There is a reason for this, but I don't want to give too much away.
"Also, he never tells Twilight how he solved the drought."
He actually does imply the solution to the drought. He talks about how Equestria's isolationist policies, in combination with the fact that he forced the council to worsen the situation, is the root cause. So the easy fix is that Celestia needs to eliminate the council and trade with the surrounding countries. If Equestria is lacking food, surely there must be another country nearby that's willing to trade for some other goods that Equestria has a surplus of. After all, this is how we solve this problem in modern society.
"Also, flying through two windows could probably injure a pegasus heavily, possibly kill her, but "The entire event had destroyed her body and now I could hardly recognized her."? I can't quite picture that. It's not like she got covered in acid or something."
Well she would be soaked in blood from all the cuts and being impaled by the large piece of glass. She's also quite different from what Twilight was used to since Twilight only ever saw the "naked pegasus" version of Catherine from across the room. However, I am probably just being a little overly dramatic.
@StyxD
ReplyDelete"Also, flying through two windows could probably injure a pegasus heavily, possibly kill her, but "The entire event had destroyed her body and now I could hardly recognized her."? I can't quite picture that. It's not like she got covered in acid or something. "
So glad I had Amberfox add the giant stab wound to the chest. (Wipes sweat off brow)
@theamberfox
ReplyDelete"Well now you're going in both directions. You're saying that it's reasonable to assume that Twilight and Celestia have an intimate relationship in the show, so it's unreasonable to establish that in my story. Next, you say it's unreasonable to assume that Celestia's not completely melodramatic all the time so it's reasonable and even required to establish that in the story."
I see what you mean. I didn't realize fanfiction is such a minefield! Still, Celestia's personality is much more open to speculation (and thus more dependant on the author) then her relationship with Twilight. Uh, I think?
"You see what I mean? I understand what you're talking about, but she is a one thousand year old princess that has watched nearly every friend she ever had grow up and die. Yet, in the show, I can easily say that 99% of the time she is incredibly calm about nearly everything that happens."
That's assuming she had any friends ;).
You're probably right, but in defense of my viewpoint: I've seen authors do all kinds of things with Celestia. Some like to play up the melodrama with her, especially when it concerns her parents or her relationship with Luna. Both are present in your fanfic, you explain it as her not acting normally. But since I've seen it happen so many times, I assumed that's how she's supposed to be. Call it exogenous unfairness.
"Second, I meant to say "tome" which is a large book."
Aw, but the mental image of a pony levitating a big gravestone was cute.
@Specter Von Baren
Wait, what does that stab wound has to do with my comment?
@StyxD
ReplyDelete"That's assuming she had any friends ;)."
Good point, it most definitely is, but I'd hate to imagine living for a over a thousand years without a single friend.
"You're probably right, but in defense of my viewpoint: I've seen authors do all kinds of things with Celestia. Some like to play up the melodrama with her, especially when it concerns her parents or her relationship with Luna. Both are present in your fanfic, you explain it as her not acting normally. But since I've seen it happen so many times, I assumed that's how she's supposed to be. Call it exogenous unfairness."
That's true, but that's like saying you should expect Pinkie Pie to be insane because you read "cupcakes" one too many times.
Don't worry, I do understand your point and I am going to work on making that change more obvious over the next few chapters.
"Wait, what does that stab wound has to do with my comment?"
Originally, I had Catherine die after just crashing through the two windows and hitting the wall. However, Specter thought that was unreasonable so I impaled her with a piece of glass. In my defense, they did fall out of a ~20 story building, but it's hard to kill Catherine and let Twilight go free with a couple of small wounds when they both went through nearly the same thing.
Here's a good question for you though: "When was she impaled, before or after catching Twilight in midair?" Catherine seems a lot more epic if you chose the former.
@StyxD
ReplyDeleteP.S. You're the kind of guy I would love to have as a prereader. Do you have any interest in doing that?
@theamberfox
ReplyDeleteHhm... theoretically, more opinions before the posting would help spot more problems more often. Buuuut, on the other hand, it could also lead to dissenting ideas on where the story should go or how things should happen. What if two of us recommend completely opposite things?
Me personally, I er on the side of the the positives outweighing the potential negatives, if he feels like doing it then it could prove "lucrative".
@Specter Von Baren
ReplyDeleteAs a prereader, he wouldn't be doing anything more than checking for the little things like catching the "tomb" and "presided" errors we had in the last chapter, discontinuity errors, and factual errors.
Obviously, if he notices something seriously wrong with the story, I want to hear about it, but almost anything that would change the actual story would be disregarded.
More than anything, it's just an opportunity to read the new chapters before they're published and give me some more in-depth input. I don't want a massive team of people reading over my work in it's beta stages like some of the other story's have. To use the obvious cliche: "Too many cooks spoil the broth."
Just got around to reading the newest chapter(going out of town for a long weekend gets you very behind on the pony fiction). I'm getting a vibe that perhaps Twilight is manipulating Celestia to her own ends. The story doesn't seem to do a good job of making the council seem guilty, indeed we even feel quite sorry for Vortex, Goldenroot and to a lesser extent Wind Dancer. Thus, it makes me speculate perhaps Twilight was in someway corrupted on this journey. It's nice to see you giving props to Von Baren, I'd say his influence has increased the writing quality compared to those first few chapters, most noticeably in how the story flows between scenes.
ReplyDelete@iastfan112
ReplyDelete"I'm getting a vibe that perhaps Twilight is manipulating Celestia to her own ends. The story doesn't seem to do a good job of making the council seem guilty, indeed we even feel quite sorry for Vortex, Goldenroot and to a lesser extent Wind Dancer. Thus, it makes me speculate perhaps Twilight was in someway corrupted on this journey."
This story is intended to be a bit of a mystery and I quite honestly can't say anything about this without spoiling parts of the story.
You'll just have to wait for the next chapter. I'm going to try and push it out for the weekend. (It always goes up on fimfiction first if you want to get a jump on it.)
"It's nice to see you giving props to Von Baren, I'd say his influence has increased the writing quality compared to those first few chapters, most noticeably in how the story flows between scenes."
Well, let's just say that the story would be going in a completely different direction right now if he wasn't a part of this. No matter what anyone else ever tries to tell you, it's important to have an editor. It really is.
Gotta say, the part about what I say being disregarded is not very promising at all! ;(
ReplyDeleteBut it's up to you really. I will probably read the rest of the story anyway and say what I want to say anyway. Whether I do it here or as a prereader is secondary. But currently I operate on an "already late" schedule, so I can give no promises as to when I'll read it (a week should be enough, unless it gets messy).
If that's all right with you, then yeah.
Back to the story. It's probably your best chapter so far, all nice and lively.
It's nice we got a glimpse of normal Celestia and how she acts differently. Although Goldenroot's flashback wasn't so great overall, and I found the idea of the menacing forces of researches setting fires to forests rather silly. Wouldn't they be better off with convincing common people to do it for them?
It's a pity you didn't continue the scene with Vortex and Goldenroot in the dungeon. I'd like just to see one more sentence.
Vortex: "Forget it, Goldenroot! I'm not doing anything while that sick voyeur's behind the wall!
...but it's probably intentionally left ambiguous. XD
There's just one sentence I find a little iffy.
"Vortex rolled over onto her back again before her eyes popped open, the amber irises piercing through the darkness and fixing on the pale green stallion above her."
How was Goldenroot above her? He's not a pegasus, neither is his desk floating.
I also have my own theory about the truth behind the presented events. It involves Catherine never existing. ;)
@StyxD
ReplyDelete"Gotta say, the part about what I say being disregarded is not very promising at all! ;("
Don't get me wrong, what you tell me is going to affect the story. The problem I have is exactly the same problem as what Specter pointed out. I don't want any squabbles between the editor and the prereaders. In truth, if there is ever any disagreement I'm going to just have to sit down and think it out so saying that I was going to disregard what you say, isn't completely true.
Most likely, you're going to have about two days maximum to respond to my emails so that I can post things on time. The last chapter, however, I am going to take as much time as I need. The last chapter is important and I don't mind making people wait. So even if you only want to help out with that last chapter, send me an email. ([email protected])
"It's nice we got a glimpse of normal Celestia and how she acts differently. Although Goldenroot's flashback wasn't so great overall, and I found the idea of the menacing forces of researches setting fires to forests rather silly. Wouldn't they be better off with convincing common people to do it for them?"
Well you have to think about it from their perspective. They're afraid that the disease is going to take over and they're convinced that the only solution is to burn down the forest before it spreads. They were sworn to secrecy by Celestia and they're already disobeying her. They, as much as Celestia, probably wanted to keep it all a secret from the public. Researchers are smart people (ponies). They're going to spend a long time thinking about this and do what they think is right.
"It's a pity you didn't continue the scene with Vortex and Goldenroot in the dungeon. I'd like just to see one more sentence."
I think I must be doing a pretty good job then. You didn't seem at all interested in this kind of stuff in your last few comments. ;)
"How was Goldenroot above her? He's not a pegasus, neither is his desk floating."
I think you missed the part where Goldenroot walks over to the sofa. Vortex is lying on a couch with Goldenroot standing beside her. Since she's lying down, Goldenroot has to look downward towards her.
"I also have my own theory about the truth behind the presented events. It involves Catherine never existing. ;)"
Wonderful. If people are starting to really think about it, then I must be doing my job correctly.
You should definitely realize by now that some of the characters are lying. It's up to you to decide who is lying and when they are lying until I reveal the truth.
"So even if you only want to help out with that last chapter, send me an email. ([email protected])"
ReplyDeleteWell, until the next Tuesday I won't really have much time for anything, so I'll contact you then.
Also, I must be getting lousy. You're right, the researchers would probably not try to bring the matter to the public when they were ordered not to. I guess I got distracted with the mental image of people in suits/labcoats running around the woods with torches (well, they're ponies, but the principle still stands).
And yes, I completely skipped right over the sentence where Goldenroot stands up.
"I think I must be doing a pretty good job then. You didn't seem at all interested in this kind of stuff in your last few comments. ;)"
Now don't get me wrong. I just really wanted to see Vortex's reaction, when her nemesis tells her to kiss Golderoot just to entertain herself.
Though that I care at all is a kind of achievement too. ;)
@StyxD
ReplyDelete"Well, until the next Tuesday I won't really have much time for anything, so I'll contact you then."
Whenever you have the time, but I'll have the eighth chapter up very soon.
"Also, I must be getting lousy. You're right, the researchers would probably not try to bring the matter to the public when they were ordered not to. I guess I got distracted with the mental image of people in suits/labcoats running around the woods with torches (well, they're ponies, but the principle still stands)."
Well hopefully, if you're finding it harder to complain about the story, then I must be getting better.
"Now don't get me wrong. I just really wanted to see Vortex's reaction, when her nemesis tells her to kiss Golderoot just to entertain herself."
That's a good point, she might have just told Wind Dancer to piss off, but on the other hand she might have realized how foolish she was being before. When Wind Dancer admits that Goldenroot had been gawking at Vortex, and not her, for most of her career, she may have realized that Wind Dancer was never really a threat to her in the first place. (And her overreaction at Wind Dancer's mansion was rather unwarranted) Granted, Wind Dancer is still selfish and ignorant, but she's not personally out to get her. In fact, she's actually helping them both by opening their eyes to each others feelings.
But... that's just another interpretation. Like you suggested, I did leave it vague on purpose. Partly because that's how shipping is supposed to be done and I wanted it to remain on the sidelines, but also because any person reading it can consider their relationship to be as sappy and lovey-dovey as they want it to be.
Oh so Goldenroot was guilty, feel less sorry for him now. Unless those Rarity lines were a misdirect, it appears I was mostly right about "Twilight" manipulating Celestia. The more important question is, what does the imposter expect to gain? Where the hell is the real Twilight? Perhaps its just me but Luna seems somewhat underutilized given the whole situation surrounding the story. Finally, how many chapters total are you anticipating writing, I'm having a hard time telling if this was the first "act" of several and thus we have a long way to go or if we're starting to head into the climax of the story.
ReplyDelete@iastfan112
ReplyDelete"The more important question is, what does the imposter expect to gain? Where the hell is the real Twilight?"
Once again, I can't comment on this without spoilers, but I think you're going to find the next chapter to be very dramatic.
"Perhaps its just me but Luna seems somewhat underutilized given the whole situation surrounding the story."
I can tell you (without giving too much away) that she's going to play a much larger role in the near future now that everyone knows (or will know) what's going on.
Also, something to think about. How did Rarity know that Twilight was supposed to come and visit them, Celestia says that she's going to let Twilight surprise them, so Celestia didn't tell them. Who else knew that Twilight was supposed to visit her friends?
"Finally, how many chapters total are you anticipating writing, I'm having a hard time telling if this was the first "act" of several and thus we have a long way to go or if we're starting to head into the climax of the story."
Ten chapters was the plan. Eleven seems more realistic now, but it's leaning towards twelve. I'm not trying to drag it out and turn it into a monster of a story (although I'm sure I could), but it just seems less and less possible for me to finish the story in the next three chapters. (Especially since I'm going to devote an entire chapter to explaining what REALLY happened to Twilight since everyone knows her story is fake now.)
And, as opposed to the last few chapters which involved a lot of talking and explanations, there's going to be a lot more action coming up.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@richfiles
ReplyDeleteIt should be fixed now. thanks for pointing that out.
@theamberfox
ReplyDeleteThank you kind subject! You prompt correction of a broken link has not gone unnoticed by our eyes.
Be glad that thou did not receive the command in our ☾ ROYAL CANTERLOT VOICE ☽™
We are choosing to use our "soft" voice. The Element of Kindness shared this skill with us!
HUZZAH! We are excited at the prospect of making friends!
And then King Pierre was Discord. The End!
ReplyDeleteAlternatively, Twilight is Aizen.
Ehem...
I think I just lost any sympathy for Goldenroot I may have had. It's funny when he says he's not the hero everyone thought he is - but it seems that only he himself appointed him as the hero of Equestria.
Oh well. No one cares when OCs die a horrible death.
Prairie Star's breakdown was... what the hell? Since when does training to speak with calm diction require someone to kill every single one of their emotions? Why would Celestia herself need to bother with appointing the director, and why would someone with emotionless, monotone voice even be preferable? The only one thing such voice accomplishes is lulling everyone to sleep. Did the Princess have a Trollestia moment again?
Also, just who is narrating her life's story and to whom? That part just feels so disjointed.
Is Crescendo shipping Goldenroot and Vortex now too?
"floor, made of rickety wooden boards that unevenly covered the dirt beneath, squeaked curiously as it moved under the pressure of a pony’s hooves."
My imagination run out when I tried to picture how wood can squeak "curiously".
Hmm, one thing I gotta ask. Why Rarity? There are so many ponies that would surely do better during a long travel to a forsaken land than our drama queen. So why her? Is there some meta reason?
Also, Twilight's story was completely false. Which means Catherine was made up. Which means I WAS RIGHT!
Gotta come up with a new theory, here goes: Prance actually doesn't exist.
@StyxD
ReplyDelete"I think I just lost any sympathy for Goldenroot I may have had."
It's all part of the plan. Now you get to find out whether I try to make you hate him more or try to redeem him.
"Prairie Star's breakdown was... what the hell? Since when does training to speak with calm diction require someone to kill every single one of their emotions? Why would Celestia herself need to bother with appointing the director, and why would someone with emotionless, monotone voice even be preferable? The only one thing such voice accomplishes is lulling everyone to sleep. Did the Princess have a Trollestia moment again?"
Neutrality was more important than monotony. You seem to have already realized that one can be done without the other, but did she?
It served the purpose of showing the reader that Goldenroot was really %&^#'ing up someone's life with his decisions. If it seemed random, it was supposed to. I wanted you to have the same reaction that he, and perhaps everyone else in the carriage, did.
"Is Crescendo shipping Goldenroot and Vortex now too?"
He was in the dungeon too, they all were, so they all know about it to some degree.
"My imagination run out when I tried to picture how wood can squeak "curiously"."
That was just a poor choice of words on my part.
"Hmm, one thing I gotta ask. Why Rarity? There are so many ponies that would surely do better during a long travel to a forsaken land than our drama queen. So why her? Is there some meta reason?"
Pinkie Pie wouldn't fit, she's too random and it would lessen the mood of the story too much.
Rainbow Dash could fit, but her "Loyalty" would create problems with what is going to happen later on. Also, I don't think she would believe (or admit) that Twilight never came back. She also wouldn't seek out the council, she would try and deal with it herself.
Fluttershy's a wimp. She wouldn't even leave her house, let alone do anything that I need her to do. She also couldn't do the funeral scene.
AppleJack could do it, but her personality doesn't fit very well with what's going to happen next. Also, I hate trying to mimic a southern accent.
Rarity is a drama queen yes, but she has done a good job of showing everyone that she can really take things seriously when it's necessary. She does a wonderful job of fitting in the funeral scene and she is one of the only ones that could handle the remainder of the story without any of my readers reacting with "WTF? How and why is she doing this?" As a special, bonus reason, I just plain like Rarity.
(And yes, I realize that now you're going to expect something epic to happen, but you should anyway. There's only a few chapters left.)
"Gotta come up with a new theory, here goes: Prance actually doesn't exist."
So Equestria is going to war with a country that doesn't exist?
I'm more curious about who you think Twilight is. I think you might be quite surprised.
"It's all part of the plan. Now you get to find out whether I try to make you hate him more or try to redeem him."
ReplyDeleteThe second, so it seems. He's not really a villain material and you spent a whole lot of time portraying him positively. So unless Rairty (or whoever claims to be her) talks him into doing something heinous for the greater good (which he'd gladly comply to), I don't see how he could get worse.
"It served the purpose of showing the reader that Goldenroot was really %&^#'ing up someone's life with his decisions. If it seemed random, it was supposed to. I wanted you to have the same reaction that he, and perhaps everyone else in the carriage, did."
What? Of the many things that Goldenroot broke, Prairie Star's life was not one. Her unhealthy obsession with the council and what she did to herself are hers only.
It's like saying that denying an addict their addiction is ruining their life.
Moreover, her dedication to the role of a glorified moderator is blown so much out of proportion that it looks like a joke. And you're trying to be serious here, for all I've noticed.
"Fluttershy's a wimp."
Why you...
And Rarity wouldn't leave her house too, cause she wouldn't stand to get her hooves dirty on a muddy forest path. And that's that!
"So Equestria is going to war with a country that doesn't exist?"
If Pierre can send Celestia a false Twilight, it should be a cinch for him to falsify any other mean of communication with Equestria. It's not like its citizens take active interest in what happens outside their country.
Equestria can crush Prance with sheer numbers, superior air/magic forces and two immortal goddesses on its side. Pierre can't win, but maybe he doesn't intend to. Prance may either be not under his command, or just a collection of unrelated towns. Maybe all he wants is a massacre (at this point, it bears mentioning that the concept of My Little Ponies battling each other to death and sacking enemy villages is utterly ridiculous :D), or perhaps Celestia and her army being out of Equestria.
"I'm more curious about who you think Twilight is. I think you might be quite surprised."
Maybe it'll sound strange, but I don't think it matters in the slightest. She may be an aether clone or a golem or whatever.
Unless treason runs deeper within Equestria and she's actually Luna and the whole story is her ploy to send her sister away from Equestria and then supplant her.
@StyxD
ReplyDelete"What? Of the many things that Goldenroot broke, Prairie Star's life was not one. Her unhealthy obsession with the council and what she did to herself are hers only.
It's like saying that denying an addict their addiction is ruining their life.
Moreover, her dedication to the role of a glorified moderator is blown so much out of proportion that it looks like a joke. And you're trying to be serious here, for all I've noticed."
Yes, but now you're delving into the moral issues behind that. If a man's only joy is to ride his bike, are you evil for taking his bike away? Most would say yes.
On the other hand, if a man's only joy is to smoke cigarettes, are you evil for taking the cigarettes away? Most would say no.
So how are these so different? Both men only enjoy one thing and their life is meaningless without it, but yet you feel sorry for one but not the other. Who are you to judge how a man spends and enjoys his life?
While I may not be digging into the philosophical meaning behind her life, that was the life she wanted. I am going to bring a resolution to this, it may even be that she will realize that she was unhappy with the life she had, but either way, she truly believe that was what she wanted at the time. It was all she had and she was depressed when it was taken away from her.
"And Rarity wouldn't leave her house too, cause she wouldn't stand to get her hooves dirty on a muddy forest path. And that's that!"
LOL. I'm pretty sure you're not being serious here.
And I really do like hearing your theories. I think it's interesting that you don't believe it matters who Twilight is, but then, where did she come from?
@theamberfox
ReplyDelete"So how are these so different? Both men only enjoy one thing and their life is meaningless without it, but yet you feel sorry for one but not the other. Who are you to judge how a man spends and enjoys his life?"
Philosophical matters in My Little Pony fanfiction comment section? This is madness!
It's not that her life choices are a priori invalid. I got the vibe from her that she did not achieve what she wanted at all, that she knows she had wasted her life but was clinging to status quo while the council existed and just allowed her facade to finally fall apart when it was removed. Her unhappiness began long before Goldenroot decided to starve thousands in the name of progress.
"LOL. I'm pretty sure you're not being serious here."
"Who's Best Pony?" arguments are always serious!
But actually, any of the main cast can be considered fit/unfit for the task, depending on whether you play up their flaws or strengths.
"I think it's interesting that you don't believe it matters who Twilight is, but then, where did she come from?"
From whoever wants Equestria and Prance at war? It could be the same person/underling of that person/magical agent of that person who approached Goldenroot as Pierre.
Since we have no clues as to whether any of the people from fake Twilight's story really exist (maybe besides the king of Prance, but his presentation may be completely false. You hinted at that in the comments), it is pointless to try and guess the actual name. Or maybe it's the work of someone form Equestria. Again, no clues.
Her role is clear and it's all that matters.
You know, I'm gonna say she's the bandit unicorn. His hat was way too stylish for him to be a one shot.
@StyxD
ReplyDeleteHhm... I look forward to seeing what you say after the next chapter goes up. Should be interesting.
Also, it's my fault for not making it clear where the explanation for Prairie Star's story was coming from, I should have asked him to make that more clear but I didn't. *sigh* It seems my problem with me being a beta is me holding back too much. I need to be more demanding it seems.
Dammit, you "killed" Twilight again in this chapter!! With the amount of time she's been gone and how we've heard nothing from the real Twilight I'm assuming she's actually dead. My biggest issue with this chapter is Celestia losing it. She's had to deal with personal tragedy of a huge scope before(banishing her sister to the moon, I'm sure there were other instances in her long rule) so I need further reasoning why this particular incident caused her to break with sanity.
ReplyDeleteIt seems I was in the right again. I said it doesn't matter who Twilight is and it turned out that she's nobody :D.
ReplyDeleteIs it really just Celestia's madness that drives her to war? I'm still gonna say not necesairly. Pierre (?) did provoke the disaster in Equestria, so my money's still on Twilight being an intentful illusion.
Other than that, the chpater's really werid at times.
They say it's pointless to ask Luna for help. That's ignoring the fact that's she's a princess of Equestria too. She could flat out order the army to stop. While they'd be more likely to follow Celestia's command, that would at least force her to confront Luna.
Also if they convinced her, Luna could pretend that she's Nightmare Moon again. The Elements are broken, no one would stop her. Celestia would have to go back.
So I'm definitely against underestimating Luna in this story. Unfortunately, if you already have it planned out then there's not much to do about it.
Also, their jolly plan of hostile takeover will further undermine Celestia's fragile state as well as spread more chaos in Equestria. Goldenroot has already shown how great job he can do with controlling the side-effects of his evil actions that's supposed to somehow end up in good.
That's, again, ignoring Luna and the fact that she may just color the walls in a beautiful crimson hue of their blood should they try to attack the castle.
Of course, if they succeed somehow, the Sun will not rise, furthering the chaos an misery in Equestria. Riots are likely to completely sack Canterlot.
You know, that's enough. The plan is moronic and the ending will be so damn grimdark. Oh well.
The paragraph right after they leave is weird too. It's jarringly pompous and it's not clear again who is thinking this and what for. Although it's probably Goldenroot to make himself feel like an RPG hero.
Yeah, Goldenroot is tremendously easily forgiven. Will no one ever call him fully on the crap he's made? Vortex, I am disappoint.
The part where he passes out while looking at Rarity is hilarious, though. He's such a drama queen!
@iastfan112
ReplyDeleteWhile Celestia was responsible for Luna's banishment, she wasn't responsible for turning her into Nightmare Moon. She also knew that her sister wasn't really gone, just banished, so she would probably see her again. (She actually knew that Luna/Nightmare Moon would return after the one thousand years had passed.)
On the other hand, Twilight was totally innocent and played no part in starting/worsening the drought, but she was sent north anyway. So Celestia sent her student up north and killed her. (Or at least everyone assumes she died.) So she went insane because she believes that she killed her student. Keep in mind that this isn't a really over-the-top insanity. It's not like she's running around killing her neighbours or doing anything without reason.
@StyxD
"They say it's pointless to ask Luna for help."
They only said that Luna tried to convince her sister to stop the war and failed. They never said that it was pointless to ask her for help.
You're also assuming that Luna is willing to accept that her sister has gone insane and that she's willing to believe the ponies that Celestia banished for being treasonous liers.
"That's, again, ignoring Luna and the fact that she may just color the walls in a beautiful crimson hue of their blood should they try to attack the castle."
She might. They're obviously going to have to try and convince her not to as some point, but whether they're successful or not is a mystery.
"Of course, if they succeed somehow, the Sun will not rise, furthering the chaos an misery in Equestria. Riots are likely to completely sack Canterlot."
What about Luna?
"The paragraph right after they leave is weird too. It's jarringly pompous and it's not clear again who is thinking this and what for. Although it's probably Goldenroot to make himself feel like an RPG hero."
Who is thinking this? This is a third person narrative. The narrator is explaining this to the reader. The only parts of the story that are in first person are the sections with Twilight and Goldenroot in their flashbacks.
"Yeah, Goldenroot is tremendously easily forgiven. Will no one ever call him fully on the crap he's made? Vortex, I am disappoint."
No really forgave him for what he did, they just accepted the fact that they have bigger fish to fry at the moment.
@theamberfox
ReplyDelete"You're also assuming that Luna is willing to accept that her sister has gone insane and that she's willing to believe the ponies that Celestia banished for being treasonous liers."
Luna already has her doubts. And Rarity was not branded a traitor - Luna might hear her out. In fact, why didn't she run to the Night Princess instead of seeking out a bunch of traitors, who were in no position to affect Celestia anymore?
"She might. They're obviously going to have to try and convince her not to as some point, but whether they're successful or not is a mystery."
Well, they sure as hell didn't take any time to consider her in their plan.
"What about Luna?"
You mean that Luna would raise the Sun as Celestia used to do with the Moon?
If it's possible for her, then she would have a good reason to carry out Thunderhorn's plan. With her sister deemed insane and guilty of the unnecessary deaths and injuries of hundreds of Equestria's soldiers, she could imprison her and seize the whole power over Equestria under the guise of filling in for her poor sister until she gets better.
Yeah, I've been reading too much George R.R. Martin as of lately ;).
"Who is thinking this? This is a third person narrative. The narrator is explaining this to the reader. The only parts of the story that are in first person are the sections with Twilight and Goldenroot in their flashbacks."
Ok then. I'm just used to (and quite fond of) the type of third person narrative where the narrator sometimes relays a character's thoughts and opinions in first person, so I assumed it's what's happening in this paragraph (yeah, as I mentioned, too much Geroge Martin).
I myself think that narrators shouldn't have opinions of their own, but everyone's style is different.
@StyxD
ReplyDelete"Luna already has her doubts. And Rarity was not branded a traitor - Luna might hear her out. In fact, why didn't she run to the Night Princess instead of seeking out a bunch of traitors, who were in no position to affect Celestia anymore?"
Luna was already hesitant to explain anything about the situation, so Rarity may think that she needs the council's help to convince Luna. On the other hand, she may suspect or even know that Luna is doing something already.
"Well, they sure as hell didn't take any time to consider her in their plan."
Right now, their plan is exactly as you pointed out, moronic. Their plan is:
A) Start a riot
B) Put Celestia in prison
It's terrible. They're never going to accomplish anything with that plan. But considering how close the army is to the capital and how far they still have to go, don't you think they can flesh it out a little more on the road?
"You mean that Luna would raise the Sun as Celestia used to do with the Moon?
If it's possible for her, then she would have a good reason to carry out Thunderhorn's plan. With her sister deemed insane and guilty of the unnecessary deaths and injuries of hundreds of Equestria's soldiers, she could imprison her and seize the whole power over Equestria under the guise of filling in for her poor sister until she gets better."
Luna could raise the sun. I established that at the beginning of the story in case anyone had any doubts. Whether she has some diabolical plan behind all of this is another thing entirely.
"I myself think that narrators shouldn't have opinions of their own, but everyone's style is different."
It's more fact than opinion. The narrator in my story is used to describe and explain things. I find that jumping around to different characters thoughts can make a story really convoluted. You have all these different understandings and you have to try and sort out the facts from the mere opinions. With so many liers and mentally unstable characters that kind of narrative would make this story almost impossible to follow. Every page would be a different story.
Just think about the issue of corruption in the council. Thunderhorn, Wind Dancer, Prairie Star and Crescendo thinks that the council is not corrupt. Illusion Twilight and Goldenroot think that it is corrupt but it can be fixed. Celestia thinks that is is corrupt but it can't be fixed. Luna and Vortex don't know what to think about it and everyone else doesn't really have an opinion. Explaining it from one characters perspective would be hiding a lot of information. Explaining it from everyone's perspective would just confuse the reader.
Both have positives and negatives. One has to weigh his options and make a choice. I thought I would get more out of the style I chose.
So I guess the idea of me as a prereader kinda fell through?
ReplyDeleteIt was a pretty nice chapter, but boy, do they chuck out those anti-goddess superweapons out of nowhere :).
It would be so cool if Thumderhorn turned out to be a real traitor now (yeah, I still hope Celestia's apparent insanity is not the bottom of things).
Maybe I'm not paying attention, but this part seems weird:
"“How exactly did you do that, dear?” Rarity asked, maintaining her confused expression and turning to the pegasus.
“Hey, you have your secrets and I have mine.” the blue mare responded smugly.
The two unicorns smiled and rolled their eyes as they started down the path again."
What two unicorns? Thunderhorn and Rarity were the only ones, but it makes little sense to mention Thunderhorn in this sentence.
Also, was Goldenroot always such a joyful fellow laughing at the drop of a hat? Celestia's still tripping and Luna is being a pushover.
Just kidding.
There's one thing I didn't like (which probably was occurring before this chapter as well). When reading, you can just tell, when a character is going into an introspective mode. The course of action will come to a screeching halt and we'll be treated to the character's inner thoughts for a paragraph or two. It's not always like that, but often, especially in this chapter. I find it interrupts the story's flow and can be a bit boring to read.
But seriously, won't Luna do anything? Aww.
@StyxD
ReplyDeleteWell, logically, when Celestia comes back, she'll HAVE to do something.
Whether that something helps Rarity and the council though, is another question.
And no, this isn't a spoiler or hint, even I don't know everything Amber has planned.
It just occurred to me that Goldenroot never told Luna they're going to try to take Canterlot over to lure Celestia back.
ReplyDeleteHer permission for them to carry out their plan may be gone faster than it seemed.
@StyxD
ReplyDelete"So I guess the idea of me as a prereader kinda fell through?"
The problem is that, while I try to work on it before, I'm usually working on the next chapter on Friday. If I'm especially creative or if I had enough time to work on it beforehand, I can send it away for editing on Saturday. Most of the time I get it back, revise it, send it away, get it back again, revise it again and spend about an hour preparing to post it on all the sites. If I'm very lucky, I can have out on Saturday night, but most of the time it goes up on Sunday night. Sunday is the last day of the weekend and the attention that anything receives on the weekend is usually significantly greater than what it receives during the week so Sunday is my own personal deadline for posting the chapters.
As you can see, that doesn't give me much time to send it to you, and if it's sent to you, then you're probably going to have a maximum of a few hours to read it/review it and still leave enough time for me to make adjustments.
I already know that this weeks chapter is not going to be posted today, so I may send you copy for prereading later on, but realistically, you have to send me your response within 24 hours or I'm just going to ignore you and post it anyway.
"What two unicorns? Thunderhorn and Rarity were the only ones, but it makes little sense to mention Thunderhorn in this sentence."
It was indeed Thunderhorn and Rarity. I can see how you'd think that he was out of place to be mentioned there like that.
"There's one thing I didn't like (which probably was occurring before this chapter as well). When reading, you can just tell, when a character is going into an introspective mode. The course of action will come to a screeching halt and we'll be treated to the character's inner thoughts for a paragraph or two. It's not always like that, but often, especially in this chapter. I find it interrupts the story's flow and can be a bit boring to read."
I presume that Celestia in the second section is the worst example of that in this chapter? I am trying to display a relatively important message with that one particular segment, so if you find it to be exceptionally boring for any reason you may not be noticing something that's hidden away in the woodwork. I'm particularly fond of writing in that fashion, but I realize it has also has its downsides.
On the other hand, you may also be talking about Thunderhorn's late character development when their walking through his home. I admit, it breaks the pacing a little bit, but it was the most opportune moment to do so. I only wanted to show that he wasn't a total dick, because it wouldn't make any sense that a total dick would get promoted to a general and elected into the council time after time. There's some reason that all these "elderly citizens" are electing him and it may be because they know something that no one else does. Notably, they knew what he was like when he was married and serving as a mere soldier in the army. Since then, he's become rather stubborn and different without his wife around.
@StyxD
ReplyDeleteAs towards Luna's reaction to their plan, something is going to happen with her. She's too important to throw away like that. You might be able to guess what she's going to do by the end of the next chapter, but maybe not.
As a note and explanation to why you won't know exactly what she's going to do next chapter, I'm extending the story to 13 chapters. Chapter 12 is the climax, 13 is the ending/epilogue.
@theamberfox
ReplyDelete"As you can see, that doesn't give me much time to send it to you"
Well, I guess it's really a little pointless then, especially now that I'm caught up in real life and don't have much time for pretty much anything. Shucks.
"I presume that Celestia in the second section is the worst example of that in this chapter?"
Actually... not at all. That section begins with Celestia's thoughts, so it kinda establishes that it will be viewpoint from which the whole section will be narrated. It kinda works.
No, the worst example would probably be when Goldenroot and Rarity reach Luna. Luna says "Insane?" and plunges into misery, while Goldenroot and Rarity probably just stare at her.
Another one would be when Goldenroot says that their houses may have been looted and everyone is stuck thinking lovingly about their property for a paragraph.
Those fragments also contain high amounts of concentrated drama, which may be justified, but appears suddenly and makes them kinda corny.
@StyxD
ReplyDeleteOoooohhhh. I see what you mean now. So in other words, you just think they're unnecessarily long diversions from the plot?
With the part about Goldenroot and the others begin concerned about their houses, I think that could have more appropriately been placed when Vortex and Thunderhorn were walking around the manor. It seems like it would have a better place there.
The part with Luna is a bit harder. I need a certain amount of indulgence into her perspective so that the reader understands her reaction, but it certainly could have been thinned down and spread out a bit more so that it's not quite so jarring.
I'll keep that in mind while I work on the next few chapters. Chapter 11 is done and I have sent it to you, but if you don't have the time to reply soon, I'll read it over again and check for things like this.
Now I'm at an impasse, I'll be complaining that this story never updates, and when it does, it'll be updated complete =(
ReplyDelete@anendlessepidemic
ReplyDeleteActually you can still complain about it not updating for another week or so. There's two chapters left at this point, not one. :P
What's with the file formats? 11 is a .doc, 12 is an rtf, and 13 is an odt.
ReplyDelete@Gekkey
ReplyDelete:P
I used to use .doc for everything, but I ran into compatibility issues whenever I worked on Linux, so I switched to .rtf (Plus, .rtf is a much smaller file).
The last chapter was a .odt because I was using a friends laptop while I was on vacation and every time I saved it as an .rtf it would convert left facing brackets to _g. Since it really doesn't matter for google docs, I just got fed up with it all and saved it as an .odt since it was the only format that seemed to save properly.
Sad-tragedy. Sounds redundant.
ReplyDelete"Update-complete" - now it can finally go to my to-read folder ^^
ReplyDeleteNice story, I wasnt able to stop myself from reading, althought skipped several section, mostly the ones with politics in them. Would go into more detail, but dont want to spoil experience for others.
ReplyDeleteNice to see that it's finally reached five star status.
ReplyDeleteSequel please.
ReplyDeleteNo really there was to be a Sequel if you leave this story on a sad note I will be forever disapointed.
If I work hard enough I can look past the fact you killed off Twilight (It still breaks my heart but I think I can do it.) But leaving the great benovelent Princess Celestia like that at the end of ch. 14 your negativily impacting two of my faverite characters in a sad depressing way. There is too much potential to be wasted without a sequel we still need to know how Prance takes all this he still need to find out about the other 5 elements we still need to know about the other Council members...in short too much potential to waste please write a sequel. This is a great story...now turn it into an epic one.
@Northwind Sparkle
ReplyDeleteI will tell you that he is considering making a sequel but I don't know what he would plan to do with it (And if I did I still couldn't say anything anyhow) but know that there is indeed hope.
It definitely seems like there's enough interest in a sequel and I would really like to continue the story. I have one other story that I've wanted to write for some time now, but when that's finished, I'm going to start working on the sequel. (My guess is that I'll start on it in a few months or so.)
ReplyDeleteMost likely, it will involve some or all of the characters in the mane six, Goldenroot, Vortex, Princess Celestia, Princess Luna, and Catherine.
Well, i read this from beginning to end in 2 days. I must say WOW. This was insane. But i found the Ending quite puzzling.
ReplyDelete(SPOILER ALERT - DO NOT READ ON FROM HERE IF YOU HAVE NOT FINISHED THE STORY. I REPEAT, DO NOT READ UNDER THIS CAP RAPED SENTENCE ROFL )
Was she really there in the end? or was it just another hallucination? I don't think it was Twilight that dropped the book, but the same one when Rarity dropped it. Not sure.
Any way it was an insane read and i loved it.
Confound this blasted iPod, this is the third time I've had to write this review because of Internet difficulties. I'm going to express my love for this fic, and YOU CAN'T STOP ME, TECHNOLOGY! anyway...
ReplyDeleteloved it. Good lord I loved every bit of it. Especially the ending (I'm a sap for sad fics.)
I don't think oh should make a sequel, though. It just ended too well. There were Jo loose ends left to tie up, and everything just fit together for a good, final conclusion. Maybe you could write something on how the rest o the mane 6 (now mane 5) move on with their lives, etc. after Twilight's passing? Or go into a kind of behind the scenes look into their reactions of Twilight's passing and what they did/how they were affected by the drought? (Even though it was briefly described in the final chapter.)