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This is actually part one of a series, so I will treat this as your typical update post.
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Such detail! I love comics like this. Someone needs to hire Madmax/Kittytail/Don_ko/Nimaru/Ego/ect. and have them produce pony comics professionally. Wouldn't it be amazing to walk into a comic shop and see a book dedicated to it?
This is actually part one of a series, so I will treat this as your typical update post.
The Real Story Page 1
The Real Story Page 2
The Real Story Page 3 (New!)
The Real Story Page 4 (New!)Share This!
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140 kommentaari:
Poor Luna. she looks so sad.
VastaKustutaI wouldn't mind a published pony comic series being sold... But I bet Hasbro would.
VastaKustutaGreat comic. I hope more come out soon.
VastaKustutanotbad.jpeg
VastaKustutaThis looks just amazing, job well done!
VastaKustutaI feel like a printed comic series is rather likely to happen. A hardcover book would be perfect, though.
MLP Artbook: "The Art of Equestria"
One can dream...
Dat cliffhanger..
VastaKustutaBravo! -Q.
VastaKustutaHey, look closer at the last panel.
VastaKustutaAwww, Luna always breaks my heart when she cries. I think she's such a little sweetheart.
VastaKustutaPretty good comic. I can see he's genuinely sympathetic to Celestia and her banishing Luna to the moon for so long. I can understand that. I think Celestia wouldn't do such a thing to her sister unless it was really the only option as well. It's looking like a very nice comic so far. Look forward to reading the rest of it.
@Rainbowdash I don't see anything?
VastaKustutaNo, no no! I know this fanon, and it's too good, but it's too apologetic to both the tyrant and the berserker! I suppose we'll never know the *real* truth unless the powers that be decide to include more backstory, but I like the think that the princess aren't above normal human downfalls (like the Greek gods, as it were).
VastaKustutaAnyway it's actually really good and I can't wait to see more. I just... don't subscribe to the fanon being posited here.
@Rainbowdash
VastaKustutaOh, I see it. The words in the "Miasma" cloud. Hah.
Isn't this true? http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110728020804/mlp/images/7/7d/Xeh5kn.png
VastaKustutaInteresting, and very well done, I can't wait for the next part!
VastaKustutaOh great. The present fans of all the bad things are the reason for me becoming Night Mare a millennia ago...
VastaKustutaExcellent stuff. I'm honestly really not a big fan of the Tyrantia/Trollestia stuff that the fandom gets inundated with. Celestia is very obviously a compassionate ruler in the show with a 100% approval rating. Seriously, her people love her, and it looks like that's the case for good reason. Obviously, one-thousand years of imprisonment is a harsh sentence, but considering what Nightmare Moon had planned, and perhaps better options were available, but it's not as if Celestia isn't infallible. Somethings just happen out of desperation and shock.
VastaKustuta...anyways, I'm very much looking forward to the next installment. The art is great and it looks to integrate the "four star" stuff that a few people have been speculating on.
Naked Celestia?
VastaKustuta[megusta.jpg]
meh, don't like the way the story is being portrayed so far. RANDOM EVIL SMOKE FROM SPACE HORYSHET
VastaKustutaNow that is interesting.
VastaKustutaI'm working on a fanfic that shares a lot of similarities to the revelation in this comic.
@rpb3000
VastaKustutaWell, the Canon suggests it *was* all on Luna...so in this case, subscribing to the idea that Celestia did it because she was incapable of dealing with it or being just plain unreasonable is in itself more fanon in it's entirety.
Trollestia isn't canon, and nothing the fans do will ever really go anywhere to disprove this...Luna WAS banished with good reason, this much is pretty much fact.
Celestia is a 'prankster' in the show in her nature, but she's not shown as a malignant or tyrant-like ruler...THAT part's pure fanon and should remain so.
Glorious comic, I'm willing to overlook the whole, "re-writing canon" thing and look forward to seeing the rest of it.
VastaKustuta@Vinyl Scratch
VastaKustutaI'm not saying it wasn't, and I'm not saying it wasn't for good cause. She was stuck with the only option left to her. To me, Celestia does seem like an honestly good-natured leader, but she's still a monarch and everypony everywhere is expected to treat her like such. It's made explicit in the show that the average citizenry fears her to some extent, although what's not apparent is to the reasons for that fear (general fear of somepony with as much godlike power as her?), especially since Pinkie Pie just does not give a care and treats Celestia just like any other pony, which Celestia seems to actually like (she seem quite tired of everypony acting so tense around her).
In any case, I label them "tyrant" and "berserker" respectively in a joking manner. I think both princesses are genuinely good, but both also have their faults. I tend to dislike fanworks that attempt to apologize for their faults by finding some external influence to blame, as I think that harms the depth of the characters. This particular comic looks like it's still going to be quite excellent, regardless.
@rpb3000
VastaKustutaIsn't it more likely that ponies and people are just the same with regard to how they approach their leaders - fearful yet respectul, trying to get approval or validation from those who take charge of their lives daily?
This isn't just ANY old pony, after all...she raises the sun - she's their deity, princess and governing body all in one. To think that they have 'irrational' fear is a little presumptuous, as many people get nervous just from approaching some famous individuals, let alone the person in charge of their day to day lives.
Personally, I feel it's more that they respect the princess herself, whilst fearing her position of power simply because of it's nature - and yet also are kept in Awe of the beauty and grace that she represents as a whole to Equestria itself.
Why not start up a 'commission/donation' bin that fans can pitch in little bits to go towards funding for such a comic?
VastaKustuta@Vinyl Scratch
VastaKustutaWell, everything I saw in the pilot suggested that Luna had in fact succumbed to Cutie Mark Derangement Syndrome. But that does raise of the question of why. What gave her the impression that ponies had no appreciation for the night?
In part we can assume that a lack of good roads, artificial lightning and telescopes in a much more primitive and less manicured time left the ponies afraid of the dark. In the year 1011, night was for sleeping, especially in rural communities.
But I think it's too much to assume that Celestia was entirely guiltless. She was and is the elder and more powerful sister.
The other members of the Mane 6 drove Pinkie to distraction by trying to shut her out of the planning of a party. Rarity left Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy as quivering messes when she got carried away with her obsessions, and the others returned the favour in the dressmaking episode. They didn't mean to. They're good ponies. But there was a certain lack of consideration to their actions.
I think when Celestia was younger and less wise...she could have acted with that kind of lack of consideration. She didn't mean to to slight her sister. It was just logical to schedule the rain to come at night, and the moon festival opposite the summer sun festival even though that mean it would be on a day so cold that ponies would just be huddling together instead of actually doing any celebration. Of course she got a lot more visitors during the day than Luna did at night. And naturally she was awake during the day, sleeping at night and not actually seeing too much of her nocturnal sister.
She just didn't notice that her decisions were favouring the day, or that her sister was going nuts.
http://rizcifra.deviantart.com/art/Stream-Great-and-Powerful-254010110
VastaKustutaI like the dark magic being it's own entity, capable of possession. They should try something like the above link.
@Unknown
VastaKustutaOh absolutely - I can concur with the overall Luna/Celestia relationship souring, no problem.
It's just that when trying to say everypony een on the show FEARED Celestia needlessly that you really kinda lost it a little with me - people DO fear/respect authority as a whole, but they can never truly befriend it because there will always be internal conflicts and a worry that it's all just a facade to keep them in check. It's not Celetia's fault there, it's how anyone would treat those in power...
As far as the whole Celestia/Luna relationship goes, Yeah the blame lies on both sides - Luna clearly didn't speak up with her personal issues on the matter, and Celestia was too busy doing what she was doing to pay attention to her sisters mood...so of course Luna's gonna get pissed at her.
Celestia *clearly* has the majority vote in the blame game, but Luna had a voice and a mind of her own...she should really have used both to have a discussion with her sister when the time to do so was possible.
I can't read it on mobile... Which sucks cuz it looks really good.
VastaKustutaI look forward to the rest, very cool!
VastaKustutaKittytail? I thought I was the only kitty-named FIM comic artist! Now we have to rumble or something for control of the title!
VastaKustutaAssuming this goes on to having Luna being possessed/brainwashed its how I too figured it and wanted to make a fanfic about.
VastaKustutaFor those who cant read whats written in side the miasma in the last panel it says: Trollestia, Cupcakes,To the Moon, and Molestia
VastaKustutaOops for got the last word Scootabuse
VastaKustutaI would love to see an official MLP comic, especially if it was aimed at a slightly older audience than the show.
VastaKustutaAnd with Luna, didn't Lauren Faust herself say that Luna became Nightmare Moon because of some outside, malevolent magic? Perhaps in season 2 we'll see said malevolent power seeking out a new host?
Wait... miasma? Crystal Chronicles!? :0
VastaKustutaI think the Miasma is Melllvar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_No_Fan_Has_Gone_Before
VastaKustuta(Actually, now that I think on it, Melllvar as an obsessive MLP fan would make an interesting story hook.)
VastaKustutaThe amount of people who seem to think miasma is a proper name or from a specific *insert media here* amuse me.
VastaKustutahttp://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/miasma
But I had brought it up with sis. I can't help it if she was 'too busy' with 'royal duties' or 'sleeping' to listen to me objectively. Sure, she gave me an occasional eclipse, but what's an hour or two of night during the day compared to any other day?
VastaKustutaCompared to a year, a solar eclipse is nothing more than a second of somepony's life, and when I first started creating them, everypony feared and shunned them, thinking something dark and evil was happening. That's the reason why my eclipses are so rare and few. Even now, there are ponies who would take my day-nights and turn them into something evil and wicked.
@rpb3000
VastaKustutaThat second definition fits rather well, actually.
She's a 'cloud' of 'corruption'.
Very good comic, I can add nothing else! :D
VastaKustuta@Ardashir
VastaKustutaPoor Trixie.
@David Johnston It could be worse; it could be one of the mane cast or someone like Derpy who gets possessed.
VastaKustuta...
VastaKustutaNope, still don't like it.
that explains alot
VastaKustutaPart 2: Loved it.
VastaKustutaCelestia's all "Bathtime Luna. I'm ignoring you. :P"
And then it gets sad and huggy.
AS a big brother, I would do the same thing for my sisters if they were in trouble.
VastaKustutaAwwwwwwwwwwwwww. :'(
VastaKustutaI... I think I have words for this, they're just not coming.
VastaKustutaOh well. Next post!
Brilliant. Simply brilliant. The writers characterization of the sisters hits all the right notes, matching perfectly how I have always pictured them in my own mind. I am so sick of grimdark or trollish takes on Celestia and thankfully this comic completely avoids that. Yet it also still gives Celestia the sense of humor that her appearances on the show have always hinted at. I especially love Luna in this comic, from the childish stomping of her hooves to the more mature silent stare she gives Tia. Just a wonderful comic all around, one that perfectly captures the essence of the show, which is just about the highest complement I can give it I think. I look forward to Nimaru's future work, whether a continuation of this or something new, with the greatest of anticipation. Well done. Well done indeed.
VastaKustuta@rpb3000
VastaKustutaA joking manner huh? Didn't really seam that way.
I think the last panel in the second part is hilarious. All those maids listening in for gossip get a sob story. Ha!
VastaKustutaThose four pannels where Celestia tries to hold back her tears and then bursts into sobbing got me. My defenses were already down after reading the story, and when that hit me I just started crying. I also started laughing because it's a very silly situation, and it's totally real. Don't act like this has never happened to you: You try to keep your emotions under control but in the end they get the best of you and you just break.
VastaKustutaGreat comic, can't wait to see more!
I felt like the royal guard.
VastaKustutaAll "pffft, another of these cheesy Luna thingies" at first.
Then I was tearing up by the end.
Manly tears.
They were shed.
Great job.
I am very uncomfortable in the knowledge that all the maids were standing outside the door to the bath, watching and listening...
VastaKustutaWhile Lauren Faust said an outside influence had something to do with it, I still think Luna isn't entirely faultless and putting all of the blame on weird space magic isn't really accurate to what (I think) happened. Still, everyone has their opinions and I won't get in the way of that.
VastaKustutaThat said, I like the scene in the bath, and the hidden words in the miasma is a nice touch. :D
That is the most terrifying depiction of Celestia I have ever seen. That poor guard.
VastaKustutaIt made me shed some tears! Nice work!
VastaKustuta;_____;
VastaKustutaAwww, that second part made me teary-eyes. So sad and so endearing. :') Even the guard is trying not to cry. Very nice work.
VastaKustutaIf I could cry, I would, but alas, it takes a lot to make me shed tears. And I mean A LOT!
VastaKustutaI don't take this story a real events, but Luna probably "created" nightmare moon herself by her anger and jealousy, also evil are attracted to darkness....
VastaKustutabut anyways I like the art, it's sweet lol
oh ya and it's toooo cute d'awwww!
VastaKustutaLauren Faust has already said that an outside influence had a lot to do with Luna's transformation. That doesn't let Luna off the hook, as her mindset apparently is what opened the door for the "demonic possession" in the first place. I would guess that this is actually much closer to canon than some might think.
VastaKustutaWe'll find out soon enough. I would bet good money that by the end of season two, we will know a lot more about what happened. Until then, take it for what it is: a refreshing depiction of Celestia as something other than a monster/SA troll/target of displaced "you're not the boss of me" anti-authority teenagedness.
The fourth-and-third-to-last panels on the second comic convey so much emotion. Now we get an insight of what Celestia had to go through. She tries to be strong and dismiss it, only to break down again... well-met, artist.
VastaKustutaStill liking the comic, but personally I'm on the side I hope the canon explanation isn't a cop out of, "The Devil made me do it."
VastaKustutaI'm all for her jealousy of Celestria allowed an outside influence to help her turn into Nightmare Moon, IE; showed her the door but she walked through it.
If it's just pure, "She was possessed" it downgrades her character a bit. Difference of she made a conscious decision to become Nightmare verses she was an innocent bystander and had no free will in what happened.
Just wanna love, I totally love the look of Luna in the first bath picture. Wet hair and angry face just staring at Celestia xD
VastaKustutaAwesome comic. Keep it coming.
VastaKustutaI did not know that I was gonna cry.
VastaKustutaOne of the best comic ever
VastaKustutaThat was amazing. Very emotional =')
VastaKustutaThey could make a whole episode based on this comic, and it would be awesome
Fuck, this fanon theory for Luna's banishment is WAY to apologetic to both Luna and Celestia that the author has to contradict the entire first episode.
VastaKustutaIncluding the beginning in which the narrator, who is Celestia, says that her sister attempted to overthrow her because she felt her gift of night was ignored.
Which really isn't all that surprising, since there's a lot that can back this up. Younger siblings usually feel ignored, especially if their older sibling is something like a Princess.
All you'd be considered is the younger sister.
I mean, shit, the mane cast of ponies weren't even aware that Celestia even HAD a sister. THAT'S depressing, but I would imagine that Celestia would rather her sister be forgotten in history, than be remembered as "Nightmare Moon."
Also, the dialogue was just fucking painful to read. Literally, when Celestia was retelling the story, this is practically what the dialogue is like.
"Pfft, nah, everypony learned to LOVE your night! Don't be silly, it's not like I keep that book you have for no reason whatsoever, even though it's facts are COMPLETELY off. So, yeah, you were actually possessed by some magic cloud of dust."
That's just fucking stupid.
Oh hey, let's get rid of ANY conflict between the two characters! Let's have this whole incident be NEITHER of their faults! In fact, they're the BEST sisters EVER.
Nope, no problems here, everypony is as happy as can be, aw.
Seriously, it's bullshit, and like I said, the author had to literally IGNORE facts from the show. It says, CLEAR AS DAY, that it was Luna's own jealous and bitterness towards their subjects that turned her into Nightmare Moon.
Yeah, Faust said evil magic was involved, but I would imagine it was more like by a villain we may see in the upcoming season that tempted her with more power.
It's BOTH their faults that it happened, Luna's petty jealousy and Celestia's sisterly ignorance of her sister's growing emotions.
Seriously, this story is sappy, dumb, contrived, bullshit of the highest degree and if this is anywhere close to canon as the show goes on, then I'm going to be greatly disappointed.
Taking the blame off of Luna is lazy and contrived and ruins anything of interest in her character.
Man...I did not want to cry to start off my morning. But I did anyway.
VastaKustutaSappy? Contrived? Whatever, who cares? It was touching and wonderful, but most importantly it was full of love.
I loved it and hope you continue to make comics like these.
I liked it, yet Pierre Chaniliau makes a valid case against it.
VastaKustutaMany canon elements had to be pushed and simply ignored to make this work. The emotions are okay but a bit strained, and the appearance of the parents was questionable. I didn't like how we needed 5 other random ponies to make up the elements of harmony. Art was pretty good.
This comic is nice but it does destroy the faults of Luna and Celestia, making them victims to some obscure entity of miasma. It then became a sappy story.
Psh, who cares if canon is ignored in the name of a good piece of art? Well Done!
VastaKustuta@ achesst
VastaKustutaBut those were the EXACT reasons it was FAR from "touching and wonderful," which it was too forcefully TRYING to be. The author tried much too hard to absolve both Luna and Celestia for the whole "Nightmare Moon" incident.
There's even a very gaping and obvious plothole with this theory, that's that Luna is reading a historical text that is apparently FALSE. Why would Celestia even allow something as off as that be published? Why would she even let her most faithful of students have such an inaccurate piece of text?
WHY EVEN HAVE IT IN YOUR OWN ROOM?
Contrived stupidity and lazy, sloppy writing.
It doesn't help that it's just one giant wall of text in the end because the author has no idea how to express and idea without it being one boring wall of exposition.
Show, don't tell.
Seriously, I don't understand why you people think this is so emotional to the point of actually making you cry.
It's sloppy writing, simple as that.
I kinda get sick day by day watching those filthy artists who drew too much of Trollestia and Mollestia! and people mistakenly thought Celestia is portrait like that! heck no!
VastaKustutaThis artist here is a genuine win! thanks to him my mind was clear from all those craps! Here Celestia is originally kind hearted and wise...just like in the real mlp:fim show.
Nice art! I like the sisterly love! very touching! nice work from this artist!
Why does everything have to be examined in a critical way? Just look at it and enjoy it.
VastaKustutaAs for the art that this was, it was nice. I wasn't tearing up, but it was definitely nice to read.
Dammit, now I have to buy a new keyboard. This one's short-circuiting from all the tears I leaked over it.
VastaKustutaWell, I am little annoyed to learn that ponies are absolutely perfect and humans are the source of all evil.
VastaKustuta@ Josh Spicer
VastaKustutaBecause I can? Also, the whole plothole I mentioned early was almost immediate as I read the comic. It was just too obvious a problem for me to just simply "ignore," not to mention the incredibly boring walls of exposition, ignoring the whole "Show, don't tell" mentality.
I can see, when just reading it again, it's poorly written, with lackluster artwork.
Speaking of that, why are people praising the artwork too? It isn't that impressive, I've seen better from fan comics.
Like Ego and that recent Discord origin comic.
The panel layout in this one is boring and uninteresting to the eye, the characters are flat and stiff, and there's just nothing interesting about it to say the least.
Plain as that, but I haven't even seen anyone give any defense for why they would consider this good and "emotional." All you people have done is told me to shut up and just ignore the flaws.
but, I thought celestia's a troll...is she trolling luna?
VastaKustutaGood comic! It doesn't have to follow the show perfectly to be good, it just has to be good. And it is. Keep it up Nimaru, it's a good story with good art. Haters will be haters and they will always be around.
VastaKustutaI'd rather be someone who encourages people to be great than be known as the hater who over-critically thrashes other people's work all the time. IT'S A FAN STORY, not the show itself.
@ Dill
VastaKustutaBad writing is bad writing and once again, none of you have even tried to defend against my position besides just telling me to shut up, ignoring the flaws, and calling me a troll.
Seriously.
@Pierre Chanliau
VastaKustutaIts understandable to point out the flaws, but you're doing it in a completely rude and mean way. Why don't we see some of YOUR work so we can do the exact same to it? You're using construcyive criticism to a point where you're trying to break the author/artist down so that they don't continue to grow and get better.
I thought this fandom was supposed to be about love and tolerance? You're showing very poor love and tolerance here. Why can't you just appreciate the time and effrt thats goe into this? Or are you just looking for something to openly complain about?
@The Author/Artist
Completely interesting!! I can't wait to see where this continues to go!!
Lashing out fiercely at somepony like that, regardless of how logically sound your argument may be, not only is pointlessly rude, but it makes the target completely unreceptive to any points you may wish to get across.
VastaKustuta@ Pierre Chanliau
VastaKustutaIn terms of constructive criticism, you are doing it wrong. So very wrong. It's a detailed comic that includes an alternate fan interpretation of two characters. The artwork is well above passable, and I never noticed anything off about the dialogue and found it a very enjoyable read.
I can understand why you feel the way you do about the story, but please. Is Trollestia/Molestia any more grounded in canon than this? Also, your excessive cursing and complete dismissal of the comic as a whole is not going to win you any points in your argument either.
If you wanted to express your opinions on the comic, there are plenty of other, less-offensive, ways to do so. Now you just sound like a pompous critic with no actual regard for the time and effort that went into the work.
Humm, I think people are forgetting a few things. One, the ponys live in a very idealized sociaty. Even most of the people doing grimdark tend to keep that cover of an idealized sociaty, even if it covers the darker that thay favor.
VastaKustutaTwo, Tia did not want the ponys to think of Luna as a monster. She planed for Luna to come back, and be able to join her, ruling Equestria with her. If the general populace hated and feared her, that would be imposable. And if you really get down to it, the folks in Ponyville and a few others are the only ones that really know the truth of what happened when Nightmare Moon returned. Therefore she basicly wrote history to bring about what she wanted, what she thought would lead to t he best outcome.
Three, and one I have seen mentioned once or twice in fanfics. In a way, Tia and Luna are 'Parents' or 'Elder siblings' to the ponys. The ponys are protected from literaly most of our history because of that. Thay have a physical manifistation of god right there, that thay can actualy physicaly go and see. Thay have had the same ruler, literaly for thousands of years. Thay have an innocince that we do not. Protected from some of the harsher realitys. Never mind the horrors that religion has caused to mandkind because 'god' is not something you can see and touch and talk to and ask questions of.
Four, think about it, after a few thousand years, playing pranks on ponys is probably about the only real intertainment Tia has left. After all, she knows prettymuch how each and every day is going to be.
Five, its bloody fantasy, goodness, if the author really wanted 'Magic pixies did it' could be a valid reason as well. There is not currently enough cannon information to make that kinda call yet. Perhaps by the end of season 2 we will have more information and be able to say something about it.
Now, on a personal note, I liked it, the story was good, Tia admits she faked the history, though not very openly, and trys to express the real story, and why she faked the history. I liked the little extras hidden in there, though mostly thay where a bit hard to recognize. THere where at lest a like 12 that I noticed, though considering I have been up the last 24 hours I can easily be adding some in my own emagination. Your going to have to do a list of all the little extras you put in at some point, just so we can find them.
@Pierre Chanliau
VastaKustutaPlease leave. That's really all I have to say on that matter.
To Am I Late Yet?: ... No, she's just got a quirky sense of humor. She's a good-natured prankster when she's bored (like Pinkie Pie, who refuses to prank Fluttershy), but she loves her sister very, very much.
If anyone's telling you she's some sort of evil tyrant or heartless monster and terrorizes Luna... you need to ignore them and anyone who agrees with them, we've got some bronies who like to brainwash themselves of all sense and make Celestia out to be a dark and twisted thing and Luna a tragic hero.
Amazing comic. I was totally drawn in when I saw the first part, and it only got better as it went along!
VastaKustutaMaybe I haven't been looking hard enough, but I haven't found anyone who truly think Trollestia/Molestia/Dementia come close to canon. They are just fan parodies of a complex character. The character is complex, so she is open to have variety on how her character is parodied.
VastaKustuta@Pierre Chanliau
I wouldn't put it all so harshly, but I do agree with him on his main points. Celestia is a complex character. It is implied that Luna is also complex (as she is described in the Pilot). Each have their flaws (which is required to make a good character). Using an outside force to take all of the blame lowers the character's complexity, and takes away their flaws. This makes me a sad panda, and lowers quality of the work in a character-driven story. Faust herself says this show is character-driven, meaning the characters must have flaws and unique strengths to further the plot.
It is possible to use an outside force, but keep the blame on Luna. Examples were given in this thread. I like to think that Luna did indeed go mad with jealousy. The thing is: It is implied (maybe) that Nightmare Moon at least as powerful as Celestia. Now think about this. Luna is younger, and most likely less powerful. How would she obtain all of that power after going mad with jealousy. Well, there may be your external force Lauren Faust mentioned. It's important to note in this idea that Luna stuck to canon, and was overtaken with jealousy, but it took some outside force to give her extra power, and push her over the top.
I'll disagree with Pierre on this, though. Regardless of the content of the plot, I do like the art style. It doesn't quite mimic the show's style. The colors are vibrant, and whenever it isn't a wall of text, there is a good amount of detail in the panels.
@ Rainbow Dash
VastaKustutaOH!
That's the problem? I've been to harsh in my criticism? Alright, let me rectify that by being completely neutral on the matter and actually pointing out ways to improve.
Ahem.
Starting with the artwork, while the characters are drawn decently enough, that's just it. There isn't anything all that impressive with the execution and on more than one occasion, the colors of some of the characters didn't contrast well with each other.
The most glaring are the ponies shown doing things during Luna's night, their Father, who was actually kind hard to tell he even had wings and eyes (when both are closed,) and some of Celestia's "friends."
Also, the gradient effect is used poorly in some places, namely the pillars Nightmare Moon is standing in front of, which are poorly shaded when looked at a closer angle. Not to mention the "swirls" of energy waves when sealing The Smog Monster. I understand what the artist was trying to convey, but all I can see is that he attempted to use the blur filter and gradient tool poorly.
Otherwise, shading in other places is competent enough while using the gradient tool, the bathroom scenes are actually done pretty well in the shading department.
Still, with the drawings, there aren't many interesting perspectives to be found in the panel layout, all resulting in flat, boring angles, in which dialogue is exposited en mass.
The worse being the scene with Celestia and her parents, in which Celestia SAYS they argued, but isn't seen. We're shown a large wall of awkwardly placed speech bubbles, with the scene set at a boring angle, with the characters positioned in a standard fashion, with their heads floating in the air in square panels.
Speaking of which, the "character's head in panel" is used WAY too often as a shortcut, instead of actually making a completely new panel in which to allow the character to talk.
VastaKustutaIt's just repetitive to see their heads floating in the air in a square box.
When creating a scene, you have to consider composition and the overall layout of the panels, but here, it's just done too poorly in a lot of places to simply ignore.
http://www.comicsbulletin.com/nuclear/99854280011828.htm
Above is someone talking about it in more detail.
The only instances in which the panel layout and composition became interesting was big panel showing the sonic rainbow, and the scene in which their Father is piercing the darkness. (Although, the last one could have been executed a bit better, but at least it was interesting to look at.)
Then it goes back to boring, flat, wide angle shots of the room with characters that happen to be in them. Speaking of which, the worst of this is the room in which Celestia is in her chamber with her guards in green armor. There is just so much useless space in that panel it's infuriating.
The drawing is competent, nothing more, and those saying it's amazing really need to read more fan comics, because this isn't nearly the best of them.
VastaKustutaNow then, the writing.
It's just not good for one simple fact: The author fails to show, only tell. To many times are things SAID to have happened, but aren't shown.
It's just boring and lazy writing, since I might have actually be the least bit interested in that argument Celstia got into with her parents, are just TOLD that she "pleaded, pleaded, shouted."
We're told, not shown, which lessens the impact. Showing is much more interesting and engaging than just telling.
What might have been better off would be Celestia not narrating the entire thing. What would have been better is that Celestia begins to tell Luna the true story, but then it gradually transfers into one big flashback.
Then we'd actually be able to see the events that unfold, instead of Celestia just telling us some of this stuff happened that we don't really see.
While the pacing is decent, it felt too fast at the beginning with Luna getting almost IMMEDIATELY possessed.
The dialogue is also unrealistic, since I can just FEEL the author's attempts and need to redeem both these characters, ESPECIALLY Celestia.
"Loved by her people and supported always by her sister the younger sister was content." It's not all that subtle, especially the "always supported by her sister" bit.
It's just way too sappy and overdone. Not to mention, again, the author had to ignore huge parts of the show to actually write something like this. He creates a plothole for no reason at the beginning of the comic by having Luna read the book that was shown at the very beginning of the series.
And no, no matter what you say, there isn't any good excuse for this.
VastaKustutaIt's literally like the author is acknowledging the fact that he's completely ignoring the canon plot for no reason, not to mention that it was pretty pointless and could have done without and could have gotten Celestia to talk about this story another way.
Not to mention the silliest part of Celestia inexplicably having friends with her, that aren't even introduced at the beginning of the comic, out of no where. It was jarring and out of place with no explanation.
They should have introduced them earlier on, maybe talking to Celestia WHEN Luna got possessed. At least then they'd be established in the story earlier on so that they don't come out of no where.
Not to mention that some of them have poor contrasts in color.
Simply put, the drawing in decent and the writing is very poor and overdone. If the artist were to improve his/her composition and writing, it could be vastly improved.
"Why don't we see some of YOUR work so we can do the exact same to it?"
http://flamma-man.deviantart.com/
Haven't posted anything in a year (going to fix that soon,) so be as brutal as humanely possible, I won't care, just as long as you at the very least point out flaws.
@ Alyeskabird
VastaKustuta"...its bloody fantasy, goodness, if the author really wanted 'Magic pixies did it' could be a valid reason as well."
Contrived writing is contrived writing, even if the genre is fantasy. It still has to have meaning besides just absolving Luna of ALL her jealousy and bitterness towards her sister that was clearly stated at the beginning of the show.
This whole comic was just the authors attempt to absolve both the characters of any mistakes on their parts in this while affair.
It ruins any potential tension between them and any potential for further development.
I'll say it once more and I'll say it again.
This comic is nothing special, has decent artwork, and is just poorly written with sappy and boring expositor dialogue.
Also, again, NONE of you have done anything to defend against my "mean" criticism except telling me to shut up, not to expect much out of a fan story, or to just ignore the flaws all together.
You know what Kayriel, you're right, I'll just leave.
This story made me erase all the Trollestia, Molestia and LOLing on Luna's disgrace "Art" from my pony folder. Now I am happy with myself.
VastaKustuta@ Equinenox
VastaKustutaOh hey, someone that agrees with me about the writing!
...
Oh yeah, leaving, gonna go back to doing that.
I still say people are WAY over-analyzing all this, like so many things. lol
VastaKustutaBut this is a cute and sad comic series.
Wow, this comic turned out really good!
VastaKustutaThanks EQD for the attention! I just found this post today (9/28/2011)
VastaKustutaThank you for your kind comments on the comic. It really was a lot of work, but I enjoyed it and learned a lot. For instance, I'd never worked with Illustrator beyond some simple line tracing before this. Fills and gradients I learned as I went :)
For those who didn't enjoy it, that's cool. Differing opinions are fine and some of the responses I would have made were already made by others.
Mostly I just want to say that I believe that this story matches most closely with the canon material and that the book that starts the series is not literal as evidenced by several contradictions and inconsistencies.
I also understand that people are upset that my comic takes the fault away from the sisters, but I'm satisfied with my depiction. I don't believe for a second the sisters are perfect or blameless or lack errors in judgement, but I do believe that the concept that she just "turned bad" because she was bitter doesn't fit. After all, that was only said in a book that doesn't even have Celestia's hair color right (or Luna's height) where we actually SEE Luna turn instantly good and be forgiven in the span of 14 seconds (highly unrealistic if there was a vast time of bitterness followed by a deserved 1000 year banishment).
Like I said, differing opinions. Nothing to get too crazy about. Besides, anyone can make their own version of how things happened. There's tons of people with WAY WAY more artistic ability than me (and I envy them soooo much!)
Still, I'll keep on it and if I can manage to keep my stories in line with canon, I will. So far, so good (minus the parents, but that's still not TOO far out of bounds).
I enjoyed this, and the driving idea behind the characterization and art touched me. The addition of the song was a nice layer to put in as well.
VastaKustutaI'm afraid to make comment on the debate raging above, but if I didn't I'd only be pretending that it isn't entirely dominating theese comments.
Here goes, so Pierre Chanliau please be gentle with me, it is not my aim to inflame, but to soothe:
I don't think there's much I can contribute that hasn't already been said by more articulate bronies (yourself included) but I'll try. As far as I can tell, you seem to know what your're talking about (if prominetly opinionated) and I suspect you might even have some fan art of your own around somewhere here. It's probably quite nice. I suppose your criticisms on the technical side of this comic have validity (I love art but have no aptitude), but I was blissfully ignorant of faults until I rolled down through these comments.
I can appreciate that you aren't satisfied with this, and that you find that the positive reaction of the majority of responses (myself included) are unwarranted by the quality as you see it. It's sad to see you getting bogged down in arguments that you've not entirely deserved (your delivery could have been somewhat more decourous)when instead I'd rather see the idealized, level headed debate of give and take that's so rare.
I suppose that brings me to my point: Ideal. It's what ponies are, and what this comic emphasises. It's why, I think, we're attracted to this candle flame of a fandom to begin with.
Instead this war of comments' has dragged our beloved little ponies kicking and screaming back to our own human measure of 'good writing' and 'characterization' and 'plot relevance.' This, ironically, has plot relevance of its, as it's inferred that the miasma is our own fault of projecting darkness onto Equestira. In a way, it's what everyone is doing, albeit unrecognized. In this, you're share of the blame is only as an equal measure in the crowd.
If I wanted to see faults, I could. In everything. I don't want to. I don't want to break things down, I just want to enjoy the story, and be wowed by the time and effort of a stranger who shares this weird and wonderful love of our little ponies with a unique vision and skill greater more luminious than my own. I want to nurture everyone's expressive development, and I think you do too. There are plenty of juicy blackberries hidden in all those thorns you've posted Pierre, but they're sharp and plentiful enough to dissuade the honest seeker.
Did you realize that the very first word you posted, bar one short comment, was hardened profanity? I won't deny I swear alot too, but not with ponies.
All of you, please stop trying to dismantle a dream. I am happy to enjoy and share in this depiction with you, but if you don't like it that's okay to. As long as there are people, we're all going to have different mindsets on what is the right way for it to be. We're not going to agree, but we can still be harmonious, yes?
If by chance you read this overstuffed post mr/ms/mrs creator, thank you.
For everyone, I'm sorry for my large, rambling and stumbling thoughts and feelings. I hope this somehow contributes rather than acts as a further detriment. Brevity is not a strong point of mine.
P.S.
VastaKustutaI like her hair is made of paint: she looks happy and the colours get to be loose and sprawling, so that there's no worry of just how exactly they lay and are made, it's just nice that they do and are.
That's actually basically what my point above is, (I think...) and it's perhaps ironic that I find the visualization of that point in your gallery. I'm smiling, anyway.
@ambion
VastaKustutaMore like this. It's people like Pierre (Pretty common to see that name attached to an arrogant character, imagine that) who I can't for the life of me imagine getting enjoyment out of anything that isn't done by some sort of natural-born mathematical and artistic genius and refined over many decades of obscurity and obsession to their craft. But with Ambion here, he has the right idea. Enjoy something in the spirit that it was created, it's one thing to give ideas and advice, it's another to cruelly nitpick and break something down - it helps no one and honestly makes you look like you have a stick stuck up all the wrong spots.
That said, thank you for this wonderful little comic series. It was enjoyable, and another look into the fantastic realm of possibilities we should all push to look for and guide back to the brony collective. Don't let any self-acclaimed critic ever slow you down or prevent you from rising higher and producing even better with each piece.
At the end of the day I don't care for the very hard comments either for or against anything in this fandom. Because, at the end of the day, I either enjoyed something or didn't. Someone else using their words to slam hammers against the walls - or, for that matter, honey to gush over them - has no impact in the slightest on whether or not I enjoy a fan-made piece of whatever.
VastaKustutaI enjoyed this. It was obvious that the art has the artist's touch, of course with the influences of the actual show. The writing was simple to follow, which I always find to be the most important aspect in comics of any sort for me.
I liked this little tangent, and hope that the author posts more comics.
Also - ambion's right.
First comic to ever make my eyes water ... that was an incredible gift, thank you.
VastaKustuta@Nimaru
VastaKustutaThanks for your comic, and for adding your comment here. I can understand your arguments for why the storybook at the beginning of the first episode has some things wrong, though in the end I put it down to stylization rather than outright errors. Still, while I feel you departed slightly from the show's canon, you held true to its spirit, which is far more important.
As for the comic itself, I think it's very good. I like the art style and use of color; for what you say is a learning experience, it turned out well. While the writing was at times overly expository, it did serve the story, and there were moments (particularly those set in present-day Canterlot) where the dialog really did a good job of establishing the characters.
Pierre and some of the other critics make some good points, and I plan on re-reading their comments before doing any fanfics of my own; still, taken as a whole, I found your comic an engaging, uplifting read, and look forward to your next project.
The perfect ending! Definately canon in my book!
VastaKustutaTheir parents, look REALLY cool.
VastaKustutaAwesome art! Didn't fell for the story though... I like Luna going mad by herself. Kinda been there, done that (figuratively speaking, of course).
VastaKustutaThe only thing I think is out of place in these comics is the little story boxes at the top of numbers 2, 3, and 4. They were the comic equivalent of "Last time, on our show..." that you so often see on TV programs. They feel unnecessary because, unlike with a TV show, anybody can just go back and reread the previous comics.
VastaKustutaOther than that, I think they're great. Anything else would just be nitpicking. I could point out that Celestia and Luna have several different body-shapes throughout the comic (primarily changes in the length of their flank from fore-leg and hind-leg), but you have to really look for it to see it.
I particularly like how it maintains not just the show's sensibility of plot, but also the art style.
It was a nice story, but you need to suspend your sense of reality for a minute, especially when the canonical story clashes with it (e.g. Luna got bitchy on her own, not by some evil being).
VastaKustuta@milleniummaster18
VastaKustutaOh? How do you know that Luna "got bitchy on her own"? The only thing in the show which says anything about that is the fairy tale book at the very start of the first episode, and it isn't exactly a trustworthy source of info. For one thing, it claimed that Nightmare Moon was banished to the moon *permanently*. For another, its pictures showed the two "pony sisters" as being the same size.
So how can you be sure that Luna went bad all by herself?
Wow. Just read Pierre Chanliau's comment, and what a load of pretentious idiocy. "Contrived" writing? All writing is contrived by its author; that's what the word means. It "tells but doesn't show"? Uh, hello, that's what the *pictures* are for. This is a comic, *DUH*. Contradicting canon and opening plotholes? Oh please, it does no such thing. There is practically nothing about this even in the first episode (which Pierre claims (lies) this comic all but ignores). And what little there was is not actually contradicted by this comic at all, because it wasn't a trustworthy source of info in the first place.
VastaKustutaAnd the lion's share of his whining comes from criticizing the art style, which basically comes down to: "I have different tastes!" So yeah, he made an ass of himself by pointing out the obvious in the most arrogant and assholish way possible.
I hope he really did leave, as his final comment claimed he was, because he's added nothing to this community except smug, self-important bile.
That was one of the best MLP comics I've read. I really loved their explanation for Luna's transformation into NM and Celestia's remorse. Granted, Trollestia is always fun, but I enjoy her caring, sisterly side just as much. <3
VastaKustutatoo cheesy for my tastes. still, not bad at all...
VastaKustutaSo cheezy.
VastaKustutaDidn't like it. The story format was poor, the ideas badly executed and I kind of find annoying the "other world hate" plot point.
It... its not among the worst, but I honestly feel cheated of my time lost in this comic.
0/10
Hmmm...
VastaKustutaWell, while the drawing style is lovely and much of the dialogue is quite good, I'm not too fond of the idea of Luna being corrupted by an outside force. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate it, but I just prefer the personal conflict of a situation where Luna is herself largely to blame for her downfall, as it makes her recovery that much more dramatic and emotional.
And my reaction to Celestia receiving aid from her parents is similar - it's just didn't feel nearly as emotional as it would be if Celestia herself had to defeat Nightmare Moon. The emotion following her banishment is great, but the build-up to the actual battle and the battle itself just seems lacking and far too short.
Again, I don't hate the story and I really do like the look of these comics, I just think the story could use some tweaking.
Just a thought for those who prefer the idea that Luna is at fault, keep in mind that Faust herself said that she was corrupted by something else. If it makes you feel better, many think that Discord might have had something to do with it.
VastaKustutaI can't find the link... darn it.
I've heard it said before that Faust has defined it as such that something external acted on upon Luna.
VastaKustutaI believe (and I think it's general consensus) that her own bitter jealousy and loathing created the initial conditions necessary for the outside factor to take root and thrive in her, like setting spark to tinder.
This fan comic does swing the equilibrium of cause towards the inmatterial, but canon is very open to (and I'm very happy to see and invite varying)interpretations.
Alright, I lied.
VastaKustuta@ Nimaru
First, I’d like to apologize for being so rude earlier when expressing my opinion of your comic. I guess all the praise it was receiving from the majority of people for being so “emotional” got to me, considering I didn’t see that way.
So, yes, I made a bit of an ass of myself in those first couple of posts, but my opinion does still stand. I didn’t like it much, I should have conveyed it more appropriately, and I’ll just leave it at that.
“I also understand that people are upset that my comic takes the fault away from the sisters, but I'm satisfied with my depiction. I don't believe for a second the sisters are perfect or blameless or lack errors in judgement, but I do believe that the concept that she just "turned bad" because she was bitter doesn't fit. After all, that was only said in a book that doesn't even have Celestia's hair color right (or Luna's height) where we actually SEE Luna turn instantly good and be forgiven in the span of 14 seconds (highly unrealistic if there was a vast time of bitterness followed by a deserved 1000 year banishment).”
…
Alright, I just like nerd debating over a show about magical ponies, so I’m just going to talk about this because I find it fun, but I always interpreted Celestia as having pink hair because she was younger those centuries ago. However, the more likely case, which I like the most, was that it was the effects of using The Elements of Harmony by herself.
Such as Ego has depicted in her comics, it just fits to me.
Also, Luna lacks the flowing hair her older sister has, so this helps the theory even more.
Finally, it could just be artistic license, as you say, the book is inaccurate because it doesn’t get Luna’s height right. However, you realize that the narrator was taking about balance and equality, right? It would ruin the message of that speech if the book depicted Luna as being SHORTER than Celestia.
Being shorter /= Equality
It was just symbolic imagery, not getting her height wrong.
Also, the themes of one’s ability and gifts being questioned has been brought up in the series multiple times, such as Rarity becoming a wreck after everypony laughs her off the stage during the fashion show, Fluttershy becoming enraged that the animals at the Gala wouldn’t bother getting near her, Rainbow Dash becoming a nervous wreck when her flying abilities are about to be judged, and Applejack who suffered through sleep deprivation to prove to herself and everyone else that she could harvest all the apples herself.
It’s not hard to believe that one millennia ago, ponies really were ignorant of the night, maybe even fearing it. It’s not that hard to believe when Faust wanted the technology of the world to be very primitive, such as using candle lights and such.
Also, admittedly bad things usually happen at night, such as the Ursa Minor incident, the encounter with the Cockatrice (Who Twilight was caught by when traveling at night,) and of course the whole Nightmare Moon incident.
Ponies being scared and ignorant of the night those centuries ago aren’t such a surprise.
However, with "Owl's Well That Ends Well," we are shown that a few dozen ponies took the time to go out at night to look at the shooting stars, so it shows that ponies have actually begun to become more appreciative of the night.
It’d actually be a sweet scene with Celestia showing Luna that over the time since her banishment, the ponies have learned to appreciate the night.
Still, I’m just rambling now for the heck of it, so I’ll just stop now.
@ ambion
VastaKustuta“Did you realize that the very first word you posted, bar one short comment, was hardened profanity? I won't deny I swear alot too, but not with ponies.” Oh my, someone that actually is level headed in pointing out my faults? Amazing.
So, yes, as I said to Nimaru, swearing was completely inappropriate of me and I apologize, however, I can’t agree with your view of not looking for faults.
“If I wanted to see faults, I could. In everything. I don't want to. I don't want to break things down, I just want to enjoy the story, and be wowed by the time and effort of a stranger who shares this weird and wonderful love of our little ponies with a unique vision and skill greater more luminous than my own.”
This I just can’t agree with because I actually appreciate works all the more when I put them under examination. Sure, “Tron: Legacy” had a pretty uninteresting story and some of the acting was pretty poor at parts, but the amazing aesthetics and wonderful soundtrack more than made up for it.
I appreciate the goods all the more when examining the bad.
However, in this instance, I didn’t find anything I liked much at all and I guess just seeing everyone parsing it left and right for being emotional were greatly exaggerating their opinion.
So, yes, thanks for calling me out without telling me to shut up or declaring me a troll.
@ Kayriel
VastaKustutaOH! OW!
Trying to get me below the belt there, aren’t ya? Yeah, I acted like an ass, but at least I didn’t personally attack anyone, especially not anything as low as insulting their name.
“I can't for the life of me imagine getting enjoyment out of anything that isn't done by some sort of natural-born mathematical and artistic genius and refined over many decades of obscurity and obsession to their craft.”
I actually like a lot of things that aren’t perfect.
As mentioned above, I actually like “Tron: Legacy” quite a bit despite some of its greater faults in the story and acting, but can appreciate the greater aspects of the movie, such as the aesthetics and amazing soundtrack.
I also like “Half-Life 2,” “Portal 2,” “Metroid Prime,” “Jak & Daxter,” I could go on with this list of things I like, but saying I don’t like practically ANYTHING just because I’m incredibly critical of a fan comic? Hell, I like “My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic” despite it’s obvious flaws such as dud episodes like “Over A Barrel” and “Pinkie Keen,” some of the jokes not working at all, along with the multiple animation errors that are seen in the show, but despite all those flaws, I appreciate the show even more than before and what the production team goes through when making them.
Again, as I mentioned above, I examine things so that I can find better appreciation of them, like with “Tron: Legacy.”
@ ShadeTail
VastaKustuta“"Contrived" writing? All writing is contrived by its author; that's what the word means.”
con•trived Adjective
1. Deliberately created rather than arising naturally or spontaneously.
2. Giving a sense of artificiality.
No, this is what ‘contrived’ means. In most stories, a moment that seems contrived is something the author does NOT want, as it takes the reader out of the story. As the definition says, ‘contrived’ means that a moment or event is shown as being deliberately created rather than arising naturally or spontaneously. The moment in which Luna is possessed has no rhythm or reason behind it and just happens because she was there I guess, along with convenient absolving Luna of all her mistakes said to have happened in the show. Not to mention Celestia suddenly having friends with her to use the elements, even though they weren’t shown earlier in the comic to at least establish their existence.
I made the suggestion in my long criticism of the comic that the author should have had Celestia talking to her ‘so-called-friends’ when Luna was possessed. It would establish them earlier in the story, along with maybe giving Celestia some more insightful dialogue.
Here are some other ‘contrived’ moments that people point out.
1. The Super Gravity Gun in “Halif-Life 2.” It happens for no reason whatsoever and makes the Combine technology look a bit glitch, but no one really complains about it much is because it gave up the ability to put up soldiers and throw them around lie rag dolls.
2. The Lion Turtle that comes out of nowhere in “The Avatar: The Last Airbender” series. This creature is only hinted at once in the series when the characters are exploring a library and even then it’s just a picture, but the fact that this creature gives the character an ability that’s contrived enough to solve all the conflicts non-violently miffed a few people, but I myself could just ignore it because the series as a whole was fan-fucking-tastic.
3. In “Spider-Man 3,” Uncle Ben isn’t killed by the criminal Peter Parket let go. No, he was killed by ANOTHER criminal that was never mentioned whatsoever in any of the previous movies.
That is what contrived means, authors don’t use it all the time like you said.
They try to actively avoid it as much as possible.
“It "tells but doesn't show"? Uh, hello, that's what the *pictures* are for. This is a comic, *DUH*.”
VastaKustuta…
Oh wait, seriously?
You didn’t read my criticism at all, did you? I made two points of this, such as Celestia TELLING us that she had a heated debate with her parents that involved pleading, shouting, and begging, but aren’t shown it whatsoever, especially not what that pleading, shouting, and begging contained. I would have liked to see what they were saying, but instead, Celestia just TELLS us that she had such a conversation with them.
It lessens the drama and importance of the situation.
Also, Celestia just saying, with no explanation, that she brought her friends to take down Nightmare Moon. They literally only appear in ONE panel and are NEVER mentioned or shown again afterwards.
“Contradicting canon and opening plotholes? Oh please, it does no such thing. There is practically nothing about this even in the first episode (which Pierre claims (lies) this comic all but ignores).”
The plothole, that I mentioned MANY times, is the question of why Celestia let such inaccurate and historical documentation be published, along with giving her student a copy, along with still having a copy of the book in her won room, despite the fact that Luna has now been freed.
It makes no sense and there is no explanation for this, especially keeping a copy of it in her room for her sister to read.
“And what little there was is not actually contradicted by this comic at all, because it wasn't a trustworthy source of info in the first place.”
Where are you people getting the idea that the book at the beginning of the series is not trustworthy? It’s a historic book that achieves what the elements of harmony were, along with Discord thinking it appropriate enough to hide the elements in the book in the first place, forth-wall joke notwithstanding.
Seriously, until proven by the show itself, the book has to be taken as a trustworthy piece of information. ALSO, the dialogue at the end of the series premiere in which Celestia says, clear as day, “It has been a thousand years since I have seen you like this. TIME TO PUT OUR DIFFERENCES BEHIND US. WE WERE MEANT TO RULE TOGETHER, LITTLE SISTER.”
Which, definitively, contradicts the comic’s ENTIRE PREMISE AND ACTUALLY BACKS UP THE STORY FROM THE BOOK!
OH! BANG GOES THE DYNAMITE!
FACE!
@Pierre Chanliau
VastaKustutaI actually have no idea what point it is you are trying to make with the qoute in caps there. I've read through it a few times but I'm not clicking.
...Sorry, I just don't see what it is you mean to say. The caps don't really help clarify either.
What I can make sense of is the apparant conflict between the story as per book and as per comic (as the former shows up in the latter.) I think we can all appreciate that the two accounts are not going to mesh seamlessly.
I can agree with your sentiment that in the comic Luna seems to contradict the explanation provided for becoming NMM, which I mentioned above and you may find a little insightful in clearing up this one point. Also remember that in the comic Celestia does briefly mention that the book isn't exactly what happened.
As far as allowing a falsified document goes... I'm staunch in my opinion against 'trollestia,' but that's a moot point in the light of the matter that as an absolute monarch (during Luna's abscence) it's within her power to have history written as she wants. If she felt (and the key word here is emotion) that (to shamelessly qoute DisQord): "A lie is easier to take," than there is hardly anyone that will directly oppose her on the subject.
...That said, it doesn't make the most apparant sense why she'd shift the blame (as in, the truth by the comic) of innocent Luna being possesed to a tale which puts her royal sister into a darker light. The answer I can think of, and I will be first to say it's not an absolute theory, is that she did so to protect the populace from knowledge and fear of, as it were, evil from across the stars.
... 'That said' That Said, please note that after the thousand years pass, only Twilight is shown to have any knowledge at all of Princess Luna (and even then only by proxy of NMM) and -even then- it's a matter that she only vaguely recalls until she specifically looks into it. One can assume that if she doesn't know it by heart, practically no pony would at all.
Whether by Celestia's intent or by happenstance, memory of the historic event of NMM's arrival faded. It probably never needed to stand against pony scrutiny (excepting ourselves, here and now) and I find it difficult to imagine the ponies of the past making any kind of considerable scrutiny of the official account.
----------------
A point of yours I do agree with Pierre is the appearance of the friends. I'd always assumed that (as based on the book's depiction) Celestia used the EoH on her own embodying all of them as it were. It just made sense to me that way, rather than her being treated as an equal slot in a group. I think her quick comment in season two that Luna and herself are no longer connected to them could be taken to imply as much, but again I admit, this is only a very loose assumption on my part. Regardless, it's only a very minor detail and not one to get caught up on at all over the course of things.
VastaKustutaI'm glad you replied to me, and am equally glad that you explained your position: for you, enjoyment comes from being able to feel a deeper attention to the little quirks and parts that constitute the whole.
That's not the same manner as I appreciate, but I respect the difference between us, and am even happy for it, because it means there's so many more ways to see and be seen than a single person is capable of alone.
-You said to me thank you for calling you out in a respectful manner. I'm really glad you recognized my intent. Likewise, I thank you for that recognition.
As it is now though, I'm calling you out again for the same reasons.
It warmed me to see your replies to Nimaru and myself, because in those you show yourself capable of rationality, reason, and responsibility. You outline and explain very respectable positions which made me think about my own. Those two posts made me happy because they're evidence that you're not the troll other's might mistake you for.
Following those however... is where I call you out for. I know there's lots of people making lots of replies about and against you, and they're coming in from various directions. Still, you followed the high point by allowing yourself to go down to the level of arguing, yes arguing, about simple little points about 'this or that word' and 'he said/she said' pettiness which if we all (meaning -all-) step back from, aren't worth the aggrevation on anyone's part.
I know you are better than that.
You've put out quite a lot of thought, much of it deserving and all of it appreciable. Don't let it end on foalishly on "FACE!" because that's what most everyone will see, and then that'll superimpose over everything else you've said.
Once again, ambion is correct.
VastaKustuta@ ambion
VastaKustuta“It has been a thousand years since I have seen you like this. TIME TO PUT OUR DIFFERENCES BEHIND US. WE WERE MEANT TO RULE TOGETHER, LITTLE SISTER.”
The comic states that there were no initial problems between the sisters before Luna turned into Nightmare Moon. However, Celestia contradicts this outright by saying "Time to put our differences behind us." Which implies a past in which they disagreed with one another, such as, Luna being jealous and bitter towards her sister and the ponies who ignored her night.
That was the point I was making.
Oh, and the line "WE WERE MEANT TO RULE TOGETHER, LITTLE SISTER" only enforces it.
Also, as for the other posts were just me being bored for the most part and just having fun dissecting arguments. I was also being over-exaggerated for humors sake with my last post and the "FACE!" bit. Along with the "Bang goes the dynamite."
Just having fun, but yeah, guess I'll just stop now that this has left the front page. I think the only one I was rude to in those past, more recent posts, was ShadeTail.
Alright, I'll just stop.
Can't love this enough!
VastaKustuta@Nimaru
VastaKustutaThe impression I have is that there was an outside force which exploited Luna's depression, loneliness and sibling resentment. What I dislike is the idea that none of those things ever existed and there's a cloud of stuff that took over the mind of a perfectly happy and nice mind with no exploitable weaknesses and more magic muscle than anything short of her sister.
@Pierre Chanliau
VastaKustutaMost of the things you've mentioned about the pink hair are definitely plausible, just that I went with what seemed most likely to me.
For example, if the coloration was a result of use of the Elements of Harmony, wouldn't it have been flowing and multi-colored long before the banishment considering she used the Elements to seal Discord?
@David Johnston
VastaKustutaMany have made that point and I may have gone too far. However, it's not too late to swing it back a bit with clarification in further comics. I'm waiting until more season 2 material is out before making any decisions.
Wait...so Luna became Nightmare Moon because of haters hating breaking through?
VastaKustutaMakes sense.
Also Luna as she gets banished is DAAAWWWWW overload.
that is the best thing I've ever seen
VastaKustutaDisturbing observation: what proof do we have that Celestia's story is true? Is there anything but trust in her to confirm it?
VastaKustutaIt's the kind of touching tale that makes her look good, and is just what a dictator would want to spread for good PR and to get her newly-lobotomied little sister under heel and faithful to her.
@Pierre Chanliau
VastaKustutaGood observation Pierre, I didn't think of that. This supports my 'Celestia is not pure' thoughts.
@Altercation
VastaKustutaWe don't know she has a 100% approval rating. She has guards. Why would someone with 100% approval need guarding? Why do they need to wear armor?
Perhaps we just don't find out about those who disapprove.
Being beloved doesn't mean you're a good person, just like being hated or feared doesn't mean you are bad. Lex Luthor was elected president, remember?
@Vinyl Scratch
VastaKustutaVinyl I do not agree. Canon may 'suggest' a lot of things, but many things are suggested to us IRL which are not true.
The main factor here is the threat of 'eternal darkness'. NMM did threaten with this, we observed it in real time, but there is only proof of that in episode 2 when she comes in person (AFTER the milennia of jail) to say it.
The narration we get at the beginning of episode 1 is not necessarily fact. It's a story being told. Likely the story the populace is expected to believe.
We have no guarantees that Luna actually wanted eternal darkness when she was banished. Perhaps she wanted Celestia to do the Moon work so Luna could take over the Sun work?
Any insanity we perceive in NMM in Ep 2 should have no bearing as to our assessment of her character at the time of her imprisonment. Being in solitary confinement (on the moon no less) would drive your average human insane within a year. A thousand of them is something we can't even comprehend, a vast cruelty. If Celestia had abandoned her there alone without communication (there is no evidence that she visited her jailed sister) Luna might take a "I'll become the monster you've painted me as" attitude in her despair.
@Rohit Eligeti
VastaKustutaRohit, how Celestia is 'portrayed' is immaterial here. The appeal of the Tyrantia/Molestia/Trollestia personalities is that things are not always what they seem. People can put on facades and conceal their true nature. A thousand-year-old magical being would be the most adept at this. She could control history, write it in her favour. Only she and Luna were around a millenium ago to know what happened. Luna was conveniently a bit insane-seeming when she broke free (but you might be too if you were in solitary confinement for that long). Then she got enlightened with "harmony".
Celestia doesn't converse with her sister, apologize, talk. No, she has her pupil wield magical crystals to rewrite Luna's mind. Luna chose to be NMM to defy Celestia. If she's friendly now, it's because it's not Luna, it's the pony Celestia wants Luna to be, an obedient sidekick who does not question.