The author requests that people use the comments below to discuss it, so feel free to go all out!
You can find the essay here!
-
Robin G. recently wrote a full on research paper that extensively dives into the Ponychan "Love and Tolerance" meme. The idea behind it is probably different for everyone. When I was asked about it in email, I honestly couldn't think of anything to say. Some take it to the extreme, while others think its a bit ridiculous.
The author requests that people use the comments below to discuss it, so feel free to go all out!
You can find the essay here!Share This!
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Thirst.
VastaKustutaHunger.
VastaKustutaDehydration
VastaKustutaContinuing the myth of love and tolerance, huh?
VastaKustutaBe excellent to each other.
VastaKustuta- Abraham Lincoln
I always liked to think of the love and tolerance saying as something of a reminder to be on ones best behavior.
VastaKustutaLook at our community as a whole. We've got more nice and creative people gathered together than anywhere on the internet ever before. I'm pretty sure that's not even an exaggeration (and I'm normally very prone to exaggeration).
So the whole love and tolerance thing? In my mind that's a constant reminder to everyone saying "remember to try your best not to fuck this up. We've got a good thing going here, and getting out of the mindset of the rest of the internet is going to be hard.".
And hard it is, so everyone keeps repeating it. As much as a reminder to everyone else as a reminder to ourselves.
Whether that's what it started as, what is was, or what is now is up for more debate though.
Love and tolerance within this fandom is dead. Sorry to break it to you, but it has changed for the worse.
VastaKustutaI do try to be nicer in the comments section when it's a MLPFIM related.
VastaKustuta@Dave Mustang, the cynical Brony Read the essay sheesh
VastaKustutaI get pissed off when people start rebuilding there whole identity around the show. I've seen guys who after starting to watch the show, changed their whole way of posting. They would only post in the Pony Threads, and if they rarely went to different topics, they couldn't go a paragraph without making a pony reference, and when somebody trolled them, rather than coming up with a witty comeback like they would have before, they just post that overused image.
VastaKustuta@Anonymous Site some examples please
VastaKustuta@Anonymous
VastaKustutaLove and Tolerance has never existed in the fandom.
Someone's a bit cynical in here. Two guesses on who.
VastaKustutaReally interesting article. I quite like it, and have half a mind to write a reply/followup essay as a response, as I personally think that love and tolerance is an important topic that deserves more thoughtful consideration than one could manage in a comments section.
VastaKustutaQuit talking about it. Start living it.
VastaKustuta@Anonymous
VastaKustutaMy god, your a genius!
Didn't Flutter!Shy start the whole love and tolerance thing over on 4chan back in early February? I don't remember seeing it before him.
VastaKustuta~Scratch
@Bosstone
VastaKustutaYes, rebuild your life around a girls TV show, to quote the manliest men on the internet
"THAT'S SMART"
Or alternatively, from my brother-in-cynicism
"THAT'S NOT METAL"
@Dave Mustang, the cynical Brony
VastaKustutaNo offense but you're stupi- I mean I love you. ;P
Love and Tolerance has existed in the community and it is a large part of it, whether you like it or not. But, as the author of this essay points out, some people take this creed way too far and try to make a lifestyle out of it, ultimately dooming themselves. Those extremists are becoming a disturbingly larger trend and they test the boundaries of mine anger.
I've always been one of those people that facehoofed whenever anyone said if you don't love and tolerate then you're not a Brony. What a fucked-up opinion. If you're a fan of MLP and you call yourself a Brony, then you are one, despite what any holier-than-thou ignoramus says.
I LOVE YOU
YOU LOVE ME
WERE A FAPPY FAMILY
@Dave Mustang, the cynical Brony
VastaKustutaOr you know, it's a nice change of pace since there's no rule stating you have to always be an asshole on the internet.
If um, that's okay with you.
Seriously, what's wrong with making yourself a nicer, friendlier person, no matter what the motivation behind it is?
VastaKustuta@Anonymous
VastaKustutaYep. I hate those dickheads too. Because if there's anything worth being an extremist for, it's a girls TV show! A good example of this is the surviving Bronies on /b/. They're so lame, you'd swear they are eight year old girls!
Be true to yourself; if love and tolerance isn't something that is you, you shouldn't be forced to follow such a way of life.
VastaKustutaAlso the "love and tolerance" meme has gotten so dumb, the "WHEN I WAS" meme is more intelligent.
to tell the truth, complete love and tolerance dose not exist. In fact it can't exist withing the human species. In order for that to be true, you have to love and tolerate EVERYONE, and I don't just mean religious, sexual preference, and sexual identity groups. In order to love and tolerate everyone, then you must love and tolerate murderers, rapist, pedophiles, thieves, and terrorists as well.
VastaKustutaif you want to purely love and tolerate the world, then you must do so without any form of discrimination.
I love you all!
VastaKustuta@AshesOfSaturn
VastaKustutaI just find it a little stupid how it seems like some people forget that your supposed to be like that.
And also, sometimes you need to express your distaste for something.
@AshesOfSaturn
VastaKustutaNothing what-so-ever.
Thanks for helping make the internet a nicer place for a little while.
@Dave Mustang, the cynical Brony Just because someone is nice doesn't mean they can't or are incapable of showing their displeasure with something
VastaKustuta@Dave Mustang, the cynical Brony
VastaKustutaNow notice I didn't say that I "hate those dickheads", rather I said that they test the boundaries of mine anger. And that they are holier-than-thou ignoramuses (Apparently that's how spell-check says to spell it).
I do not hate anypony. Hating people is just a plain waste of energy and life. I can understand hating people's actions, especially ignorant and extremist actions such as these, but I do not hate the actual people.
WITH A GREAT BIG SHOVE
AND A KICK FROM ME TO YOU
BARNEY SAYS ILL FUCK YOUTUBE
@Dave Mustang, the cynical Brony
VastaKustutaThe concept of chilling out, not stressing, and being cool to others isn't exactly a new idea.
All I'm saying is that the metadiscussion about "Are we as a fandom loving and tolerating enough? What does love and tolerance mean? We need to come together!" only winds folks up. If you're dead set on the L&T, then do it, don't talk about it.
Be cool. Everything follows from that.
Given that the show has a "the moral of the story is" framework.... MLP would hardly be the worst thing for someone to rebuild their ethics around given that many of the moral lessons expressed through the show are, honestly, very simple things that all of us should have learned a long time ago, but many have seen fit to no longer practice.
VastaKustutaDistaste can be expressed without being ugly about it. This generation would do well to figure that out. Basic politeness works wonders in your daily life, both on and off the internet.
@Anonymous
VastaKustutaOh, so what if somebody slaughtered your family, would you not hate them?
@AshesOfSaturn
VastaKustutaExactly. I don't understand why in the world Dave Mustang gets so worked up about people deciding to try not being jaded and cynical for a minute.
I think a lot of people misunderstand what it truly means to love and tolerate someone.
VastaKustutaWhen we're told to love our enemies, it doesn't mean in the sense of
"please sir, I want some more" when they treat us badly. What love truly means is
simply to truly care about another person, and to want what is best for that person.
In the case of someone who is angry, or who tries to hurt you, loving that person
means refusing to give into the toxicity of hatred, and instead to truly desire that
that person's heart might one day be healed, and to be willing to do what is necessary,
if anything can be done, to bring that to pass.
Loving someone who wishes you ill does not mean being a doormat. It certainly does not
mean grinning and taking outright abuse. What it means is that, even though you may be
hurt, and even though you may defend yourself, everything you do you do only out of
necessity, and never once do you do anything because you actively wish harm on another
person. It means that you are always ready to forgive if the person sincerely recognizes
and wants to stop the pain that he or she has caused. It means that you refuse to hold a
grudge; that you refuse to seek revenge for the sake of the infliction of suffering;
and that you will be the better person, always.
That's what being a brony is all about: not being a doormat; not accepting injustice;
not turning a blind eye to one who is causing pain, but always acting out of sincere
concern and care for others; always being ready to forgive; and never allowing our hearts
to become tainted from pain or conflict that we might encounter along the way.
I always took the love and tolerance thing to mean that you shoulsn't blow up on somebody who hates the show. Instead, you present a calm and well thought out arguement that basically states that "you respect their opinion, but the reason why you don't think that way is-". Not, "Oh, you're not a Brony!!! We're goin ter Love and Tolerate the SHIT out of you!!! Herp Derp!!! 6.9" That just creates more oponents and solidifies your oponent's arguement, not to mention embaresses both you and your fellow bronies.
VastaKustutaThe thing that sets us apart is the fact that MOST of us do this, and just like other fandoms we have the people who produce claims of granduer without providing a line of reasoning behing their opinion.
Welp, on to the actual essay.
@Dave Mustang, the cynical Brony
VastaKustutaWhy are you taking it as such a personal offense when other people try to be nicer?
You're trying too hard Dave :)
VastaKustutaThe fact is, for a message board community, MLP:FiM is remarkably mature and tolerant (I'm not sure about loving). Leaving 4Chan aside, this website is a testament to the idea that not everyone on the internet is a dick.
@Cold in Gardez
VastaKustutaSo, all of a sudden, debating about opinion=MAXIMUM DICKERY!
Yep. Trying too hard.
VastaKustuta@Dave Mustang, the cynical Brony That's not what he meant. I don't see how one could make that irrational conclusion from that. There's a way to debate opinions without being obnoxious and unpleasant about it.
VastaKustuta@Anonymous
VastaKustutaClearly you've never actually had a real debate.
@Anonymous
VastaKustutaHe's pretty much just trolling us at this point isn't he.
@Dave Mustang, the cynical Brony So I have to be a dick in a debate and constantly make add hominem arguments all the time wow you learn somthing new everyday
VastaKustuta@Anonymous
VastaKustutaYes, because having an opinion=TROLL!
You guys are kinda taking this too seriously. Love and tolerate was made to counter act the hate from the haters and is still used for that reason.
VastaKustutaAside from that love and toleration do not really exist, when I go to the brony servers on various steam games I don't see much friendship or magic but just the same ol' stubbornness of the internet. An example would be when I entered the Gmod roleplay server when they were streaming episodes, a young lad asked nicely on how to fix a problem with the screen (which a lot of people had)but only got bombarded by a huge wave of hate because of his voice.
With all this said, we are still the nicest fandom around but not as much as we should or think we do.
@Anonymous
VastaKustutaNot a dick, however, showing emotion and actual feelings is very important.
I'll weigh in here, though I am going to sound "off" to most people.
VastaKustutaTo me, it is like a little sub-conscious motto or reference for certain situations. If in a situation that I would normally rage, I'd be firm instead. If I'm being critical, take into account of who you are being critical towards and the image you are portraying of yourself. If I am in an argument, I listen and think instead of pressing my point without consideration when possible. I avoid focusing on the negative, and looking at the whole picture
In the end, it means avoid being a jerk, have a little positivity and emotion, and try to spread those ideas to those around you. (and ponies too, if possible) These concepts sound obvious, but there are so many that don't really take them to heart (I'm not saying that it's you guys).
Also, it allows me to tolerate those that are so serious in this fandom.
Also, I'm one of "those guys" who like fanfics, shipping, and some of the other "disagreeable" stuff, just to let you know :P
Woo rant over!
They're not saying you're a dick (Well, I can't say that for certain considering the fact that I'm not them, but it doesn't seem like they are) You're right, the WHOLE community is NOT Loving and Tolerant, but a pretty big portion of it is mature and tolerant (Btw Anon at 9:59, BRILLIANT explination). For instance, when you made your first comment, the anon that replied to you said "Read the essay, sheesh.". That wasn't really a personal attack, and yet you countered with your opinion, you put your opinion out on the comment section for all to see. So naturally someone (In this case many someones) would provide a counter arguement. Every time you took this as a personal attack, even going so far as to say "So all of a sudden, debating about your opinion=MAXIMUM DICKERY!". You're not really debating at this point, more like covering your ears like a little kid while shouting "I'M NOT LISTENING!!!!!!" Just calm down, and have a civil, well thought out debate. A flame war helps no one.
VastaKustuta@Burndog That's not to say that there more open servers out there
VastaKustutaHonestly, "Love and tolerence" has become a defense mechanism, a way for certain bronies to flaunt their supposed righteousness, and an almost oppressive philosophy that can explain why so many people are ticked off with us, and can create outsiders even within our own community.
VastaKustutaAll I can say is that love and tolerence is not what the show has taught me. It's taught me to value my friends, and has reminded me of many of the small lessons that humankind often forgets, and which can make me a better person.
In short, by not showing a tolerance for differing opinions, you've created a sort of imaginary intollerance against your own opinion.
VastaKustutaCause being at peace with the world is really --[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism]-- stupid --[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish_religious_practices]-- and no --[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Five_Precepts]-- one does that, right guys?
VastaKustutaFucking moron. If I can love and tolerate your dumb bullshit opinions then I can love and tolerate everyone's dumb bullshit opinions. Even my own. Love and tolerate is just that and the only reason I'm not a Jain is because I'm too much an asshole and I love bacon.
A great man once said, "Don't be mean. We don't have to be mean. 'Cause, remember: no matter where you go...there you are."
VastaKustutaAlso, I have to add, even if it makes Dave angry (for some unfathomable reason), this show and the 'love and tolerance' concept that came out of the fandom has changed me for the better. It's not like I've made ponies into a religion or something, but I'm definitely a somewhat calmer, nicer, happier, less stressed person. And, that's really saying something considering the terrible crap going in in my life.
So a show for little girls allows some people to feel it's OK to happier and treat people a bit nicer and take a higher road some of the time. So what? I don't see the problem.
Guys this is hitting religious debate proportions, and I honestly think that's a bit too far to take this whole thing. I'm glad everyone is talking about it but lets not create a dogma on either side. that's taking the whole thing too far.
VastaKustutaMost stories that I see on TV and about people being stupid and selfish or about conflict and revenge. MLP:FiM avoids most of this and the story is not about winning against the bad guy but accepting people for who they are and learning to get along.
VastaKustutaWhile we can't always do the MLP:FiM solution in real life we do need the reminder that dealing with people does not always have to be a competition. And you don't always have to win. Instead both sides should cut some slack. And be more loving and tolerant :P
@Anonymous
VastaKustutaNot really the point of my small wall of rant but of course there are others but not places specifically for us bronies who are known for love and toleration.
I'm about halfway through this essay, but I just have to say-- is anyone else irked at the fact he used Wikipedia as a source? I guess there isn't much hardcore research on Ponies, but still. Interesting though, I wonder what a college professor would think if this was handed in.
VastaKustuta@AnonymousWikipedia links are usually frowned upon in Essays. Resulting in an Low Grade But what can ya do
VastaKustuta@Anonymous
VastaKustutaTrue, and that's why it's sort of a pet peeve of mine. Not a very reliable source. But this is a freakin essay on bronies soooOOOOoooo *shrug*
@Double
VastaKustutaI agree with the first paragraph.
But I don't think the show taught me anything. It's just an enjoyable show.
Hey GUIES!
VastaKustutaI'm gonna tell you all a secret.
But you have to promise not to tell anyone.
Promise?
Okay then.... I DON'T CARE.
No, really. Not even a bit. About tall thsi bullshit and that essay (can it be called like that).
WHAT I'M DOING WRONG?
@Anonymous
VastaKustutaSeems like you really didn't read the essay did you?
@Anonymous
VastaKustuta*slow claps build into thunderous applause*
You have an opinion! Now go boy, run home! Tell your parents "I told a bunch of Bronies to suck it"!
@anon 9:49
VastaKustutaI really hope you mean happy.
@Anonymous
VastaKustutaThe author actually discusses the wikipedia citations in a forum reply in the link below. If you are interested why he has done so.
http://swtorponies.forumotion.com/t76-memes-and-community-building-a-case-study-of-love-and-tolerance
My philosophy for Love & Tolerance (And bear in mind that this is only one bronies opinion and that yours is likely to differ) is that Love & Tolerance should be our default reaction to just general life.
VastaKustutaIf someone beats up you or your girlfriend/boyfriend, you fight back. There's a line when just can't say "It's okay, I love you still, but if someone is just being a stupid troll, there's no point in fanning the flames, it's a times like those when Loving and Tolerating are most aptly used.
TL;DR: Love and Tolerate when appropriate, but when the chips are down go wild, even our beloved ponies have gotten into fights before, several times.
dave mustang you have to be the average oblivious internet commenter that likes to talk shit without knowing half of what comes from his mouth
VastaKustutawhat are you 14-16? I want an honest response Im not going to waste my time by someone that thinks "i dont care" is an opinion
and according to what I read the only one that probably has never been to a debate is you
a random forum where you talk the same stupid shit you talk here trying to make it seem like an opinion when its not is NOT a debate fyi its just you being entitled over yourself
I sometimes wished that only college unviersity or experts on certain fields could only talk,but that would be neglecting all the inteligent teens that are out there putting up with stupid stuff like yours
@Anonymous
VastaKustutaGood, let the hate flow through you, child
@Dave Mustang, the cynical Brony Now you're trolling
VastaKustuta@Dave Mustang, the cynical Brony
VastaKustutaCool. Not everyone's going to find some deeper meaning to the show... despite all of our different opinions, I think we can all at least agree that MLP: FiM is a great show to watch.
Okay, so here's the thing: love and tolerance doesn't mean tolerating intolerance (i.e. murder, rape, theft, slavery, etc.). That wouldn't even make sense--it's self-defeating and contradictory. If you really want to be loving and tolerant you can't tolerate those things.
VastaKustutaHowever, people saying nasty things about you or about MLP is different from murder, violence, etc. Speech involves no physical force or violation of rights (that's why it's protected by law under free speech--no matter how mean and hateful it may be), and often the best way to combat it is to counter it--not with more anger and hate--but with love and tolerance (or just to ignore it). Even so, I would not describe it as "intolerant" to tell someone off who's acting like a jerk. The question is whether it really benefits anyone to bother.
Also, this mantra has to do with how you personally conduct yourself, not with politics or how society should handle crime. It's about reciprocity, about not saying or doing something to someone else that you wouldn't want them doing to you, and just generally taking the lessons in the cartoon seriously. Because--like it or not--they're the real deal. That's life. Life works out better when people recognize that they're better off appreciating and acting nice to each other rather than being pricks. Get used to it.
But you don't have to take my word for it. Try living your life as an asshole and when you're old, decrepit, poor, and no one likes you, you can let me know how it worked out for ya.
okay... im not gotta get going in that flame war or wathever
VastaKustutabut im gona say the "love and tolerance" in another context, believe me has helped IRL somehow
also not wanting a response, but Dave arent you sure you have visited this page too many times just for responding some Anons.?
Uh, I always try to not be an ass on the internet (and in day-to-day interactions) because it's a good way to avoid people thinking you're a sociopath and because I don't have the time or energy to devote actual effort into dissecting arguments I don't really care about. Plus, I always feel stupid if I get worked up about anything I have no real intention of solving in the immediate future. Plus, not being an ass is really, really easy, and makes conversations much more pleasant (except when people think you're being passive aggressive or something, at which point it is prudent to just stop talking). Does it always work? Of course not - some people just want to cause a negative reaction. They may say they're just "debating" or what-have-you, but they're generally just bored or deluded. And who would want to talk with those kinds of people, anyway? Just ignore 'em, you'll have forgotten about the whole thing in an hour or two. (I don't normally preach about this sort of thing, but everyone was already talking, and, well, it works pretty damn well for me.)
VastaKustutaPonies didn't teach me any of that, but if people are finding themselves moved by the TV show to clean up their act, I can't fault 'em. There are far, far worse places to learn the utility of common human decency and basic morality. Is it kinda "lame" and "creepy" that people are restructuring their worldviews over a (to be fair, quite excellent) television show made for children? Eh, I've seen lamer and I've definitely seen creepier. Sure, in an ideal world it wouldn't take a cult-like fanaticism to make people behave properly (and in an ideal world, ALL fanatics wouldn't feel the need to evangelize quite so much), but we ain't living in heaven. And there are better things to focus one's attention upon than love-and-tolerance bronies who feel the need to bring up how loving and tolerant they are every sixteen seconds.
(Oh, and earlier I think Dave Mustaine posted something about hating a hypothetical man who murdered one's family; I'd say that of course you're going to hate him, but you should strive not to - you'll only screw yourself over by thinking about him constantly. Real life doesn't work like a revenge flick [even a Chan-wook Park one], and you'll never get a satisfying level of vengeance - plus, you can end up doing damage to yourself by obsessing. So, as tiresomely Christian as it may sound, I'd advocate doing your best at forgiveness unless you've really "hit rock bottom" and have no desire to leave said low any time soon. Not saying it'd be easy; not saying it'd make your problems go away; just saying it'd be better than trying to track down the blighter and pop out his eyeballs with a claw hammer or something.) [blech textwall oh well I'm posting as anonymous anyways. Sorry tout le monde!]
Long story short, sometimes the wise thing to do is just to let stupid comments and differences of opinion slide. Responding with "love and tolerance" is a way to diffuse the situation. Be the better person, act rationally and calmly, and hopefully the instigator will eventually realize the error of his ways.
VastaKustuta@PM
VastaKustutatruer words have never been said
@Anonymous Yep. Justice is necessary, but revenge--not so good. Admittedly it can be a very fine line.
VastaKustutaIt's wrong to say that people who adhere to 'love and tolerance' are rebuilding their lives around a girls show. Rather, it's a pledge to try and be better, more caring individuals and improve their existing morality.
VastaKustutaAnd to all the people who cynically say 'love and tolerance doesn't exist' or 'its just a stupid saying' - at least its something. People trying to better themselves and help others is never a bad thing, no matter how insignificant you may see it as being.
This is exactly what MLP and bronies are about. Trying to make a change for the better.
The kind of person who looks at people trying, to whatever extent, to love and tolerate, and dismisses it is the same kind of person who sees a charity worker and calls their efforts meaningless - the same kind of person who has that 'fuck the world its all going to burn' attitude that doesn't help anything.
Trying to do the right thing and be a better person is what this is all about. Proof that it's worth something? Look around you at all the internet users who are loving and tolerating each other.
@The Top Gear Pony Fan
VastaKustutaThanks. I honestly think a lot of this "love and tolerance" stuff is just a result of some people finally getting tired of the negativity of Internet culture (which itself was a rebellion against expected social norms which has now evolved into a norm of its own to be rebelled against) and suddenly realizing for themselves that they don't have to act like pricks (and that things are more pleasant when they don't). MLP was just a catalyst and something to rally behind.
@Muffinsforever I have to agree.
VastaKustutaTaking *anything* as as strict rule-of-life can be hazardous to oneself - even such good things as this.
For me personally, it(well, the show in general) has brought me to think: do I really need to always be so cynical and sarcastic(as fun as that usually is)? Can't I sometimes be just, you know, nice? It means growing up as a person, to not respond to hate with hate. I'd like to believe I can do that.
So maybe what needs to be added to the "love and tolerance" is "with a decent spoonful of common sense", for some people.
@9:53 PM Anon:
VastaKustutaNo. No, no, no. Might I direct you to page 3, section 3.3:
"It also should be noted that the show makes a clear point that once the tolerance threshold has been exceeded, one should stand up and fight for one's opinions."
Love and tolerance is about listening to a respecting someone's opinions. Here's a hypothetical example in which I am being bullied by some person. With love and tolerance, I take the insults and only beat him up *after* he takes a swing at me. Without love and tolerance, I just go straight for the punch. That is my opinion anyways; obviously it varies for everyone.
Love and tolerance means two simple things to me: always assume the best of people until they prove otherwise, and don't escalate conflict yourself, only respond as necessary to protect yourself.
As for bronies restructuring their lives around the show, and of course those who post the really creepy fanart (I saw *really* creepy because I have a pic of a scantily-clad, anthropomorphic Rainbow Dash in my dA favorites :P), sure it may seem odd to me, but it's their life. As for them giving the show a poor rep, it's really more the fault of the people who automatically assume we are all creepy stalker murderer people... and often those are the kinds of people who would assume that without the extreme fans.
On a side note... I am going to get a Rainbow Dash cutie mark tattoo. :3
And I don't think there's anything shameful about MLP FiM changing someone's outlook on life and helping them to be a better person. Sometimes it's the simplest of things that can make you re-evaluate your mindset. That's what good art aims to do, and I think it's awesome that MLP could somehow inspire that. People with a myopic view of what constitutes "art" might laugh at the idea, but they'd be missing the point.
VastaKustutaJust to link the discussion to the show, I think Griffon The Brishoff tells a lot on the matter.
VastaKustutaI'unno. I just think the world could use some more L&T. :/ That's about as deep as I go on the subject.
VastaKustutaSeth
VastaKustutatruly I don´t give a fuck about the post
the pic is so cute it´s...(manly tears)
you could say even that the next 5 seassion are confirmed and still don´t give a F cause THAT PIC MEN...you make my week
The problem is your version of "love and tolerance" is fake and insincere as hell.
VastaKustutaAlso this mindset does not apply to the whole fandom, it's mostly touted by ponychan who desperately try to force it on every other pony community.
Not everywhere agreed with the hollow and empty phrase of 'love and tolerance'.
VastaKustutaIn fact, a lot of the pony fans outright detest it, since it gets used so moronically there's no meaning to it at all.
>Among the different memes, one comes to mind more frequently than the others : "love and tolerance". Known, respected and used by seemingly the whole community, it is one of the oldest and most official
VastaKustuta>one of the oldest and most official
I stopped there. Damn Seth you're more than happy to post ANY piece of shit, aren't you?
You guys are like people who help out at soup kitchens not because they sincerely want to help the homeless but because they just want to feel better about themselves and to have something to brag about.
VastaKustutaIf you constantly have to prove how much you are capable of loving and tolerating others that means you have no idea what these things really mean.
WHY ARE THERE SO MANY BLOODY TYPOS IN THE BLOODY PAPER? BLOODY HAY!
VastaKustutalove and tolerance is the cancer that's killing ponychan
VastaKustutakeep it up, guys!
Phases of resistance to change:
VastaKustuta- Anticipation
- Confrontation
- Realization
- Depression
- Acceptance
- Enlightenment
Please also ref. to any cultural change in the history of mankind, thank you.
I'm sure it's just the newer bronies that would rather stay a dick instead of, you know, being a bit nicer?
VastaKustutaWhen i first became part of this community, all the bronies were so helpfull to others and loved and tolerated all the trolls...
It was such a wonderful feeling to be part of something like that, while now it's just like any other community, while there are still the amazing people i got to know from the start, when a community grows there will be assholes and jerks within it, and it's really too bad those jerks are the most vocal.
@Anonymous Well love and tolerance is challenging the cesspool of bullshittery the internet's been all about for a long time now (inb4 4chan is not all bad. Just a note: I'm not talking about 4chan), ref. to resistance to change.
VastaKustutaAnyway, I'm not at all surprised there's animosity towards l&t. It's normal for any community to find balance on somethin like this. But, like it or not, there's big cultural change happening right now on the internet, and there's nothing we can do about it.
I'll just go on ahead'n sit back to watch the fireworks.
I wrote a few things, and decided to make it more brief.
VastaKustutaAs a relatively newcomer to the community, I was under the impression that the Brony community is more tolerating and nicer than the majority of the internet (whose the G.I.F.T. of Penny Arcade fame applies). I can't tell from Equestria Daily if it's true (seeing that it allows people to post anonymously), but in other more obscure places I feel that it's true. This is the reason I'm attracted to this fandom.
And to buck a dead tree, love and tolerance does not mean being a doormat. In the most simple and brief words I can think of, it means to not be hateful, both in thought and in actions.
@Enfid I think some people here haven't even seen online fandom wars before. Especially shipping wars and character hate wars. Good god. They don't get to appreciate some bronies' genuine politeness/kindness.
VastaKustutaI find it ironic that Dave Mustang is being shouted down, simply for voicing his different opinion, by people flying the banner of "love and tolerance".
VastaKustuta@Anonymous It would be funny he wants people to treat each other badly/people to not be spineless from love and tolerance, then gets offended if people treats him badly.
VastaKustutaOtherwise, when is responding to him by stating their own opinions in kind without degenerating into name calling or cursing similar to 'treating him badly'?
Oh and, by the way, this is now an official example of bronies not being spineless, and thus being capable of defending their own opinions. From an obvious troll no less.
And yes, troll. Someone who barely even gives logical reasons for their rude statements.
^^ Yeah I heard Avatar: The Last Airbender fandom war was heated to say the least.
VastaKustuta^ Dave Mustang, to my opinion, was shouted down not because of a different opinion, but the attitude that came with it. There's a difference between saying
"I don't like carrots. The color orange doesn't look very appatizing and the texture is either too crunchy when raw, or mushy when cooked"
and
"I don't understand why anyone would like carrots. People who like it must lack a sense of taste."
Both don't like carrots, and while one give a thought out reason why, the other was insulting and snarky. Responding with sarcasm doesn't help one's cause in any way, as it generate hostility. reductio ad absurdum doesn't help either.
@Enfid Oh yeah, I know that war. I've been there myself. It's the reason I left the fandom. There were just so many catfights it's not even funny.
VastaKustutaI don't see how anyone can be so mean as to call "love and tolerance" a myth or just a dumb thing to go by.
VastaKustutaSo if you don't go by love and tolerance...? Are you saying people would be better off being dicks to each other? Sorry but the only thing (I hope) I'm intolerant to is intolerance itself, and people who call people out for the love and tolerance need to seriously reconsider how they act.
I'm all for love and tolerance; although I don't see why you need a TV show to tell you that. People should be tolerant of each other ANYWAY.
And as for people who claim to be tolerant, there is so much hypocrisy that comes with this. People act all tolerant, not feeding the parasprites and generally people who gave the show a chance in the first place are more likely to be tolerant anyway.
The thing here is, the slightest bit of rule 34 comes along - no, not just rule 34, anything the person in question dislikes. Whether it be SFW shipping or maybe they don't like fanfiction in general, and suddenly they start swearing and acting as if people who DO like these things are idiots. I'm not saying you can't dislike these things The thing is, don't act as if things you personally don't like are "destroying the fandom".
Above all else: http://youtu.be/0la5DBtOVNI
@Tripfag McGee
VastaKustutaYou're just another annoying tripfag who doesn't contribute anything to the community and instead bitches about it, like any other perverted closet furry /co/ckstain.
@Anonymous
VastaKustuta0/10
@Rasrap Smurf
VastaKustutaWell said. Coming from other fandoms I have noticed a difference in this one. Ponies just generally put more effort into trying to get along.
Also, love and tolerance doesn't mean acting happy-go-lucky all the time or fitting into some kind of preset mold, it just means not getting pleasure from other ponies' pain. And when you disagree over preferences, you agree to disagree.
The idea is that--like in the show--ponies with very different tastes and backgrounds can still get along and be best of friends. Like Faust said, "You can be friends with people who are vastly different from you. And even though all friendships have their share of disagreements and moments when you don’t get along, that does not mean that your friendship has to end."
I find it hard to understand how someone could like MLP FiM and not see value in the basic messages of the show, considering they are pretty integral to the plotlines.
Accept those who are different, refusing to do so and being intolerant is what's wrong with the world(for the most part) IMO.
VastaKustutaSomepony doesn't like the fact that somepony else has a different view or opinion about something and so they attack them in some way (verbally or otherwise).
Don't continue that mistake and let the world eat itself. Love and Tolerate everybody for who they are.
Enfid you got it spot on. I find it disappointing that we can't even get along under a post about love and tolerance. :/
VastaKustutaI love Killswitch Engage. I love Owl City.
VastaKustuta@Anonymous Here's the thing most of us if you can take from the don't mind that Dave has a dissenting opinion. It's just the way Dave is doing it could be in a less obnoxious "I'm gonna get butthurt about this attitude."
VastaKustutaENSIIE!! I can't believe the guy is a student at the ENSIIE. :D So it turns out that not only do they churn out badass computer people, they now also train bronies. Rock on!
VastaKustuta@Rasrap Smurf
VastaKustutaYeah, a lot of people have rage-mode triggers, whether it be OCs, self-inserts, rule 34, RPing, gore, the 'wrong' sexual preference, religion, non-religion, or whatever. Part of learning to love and tolerate is learning to not freak out at things you don't like.
But it requires that we unlearn bad notions. To properly internalize new values takes thought, self-examination, and often the help of others.
Many of the bronies you complain of aren't hypocrites so much as they're people who are still learning how not to be hypocrites.
@ismbof
Killswitch has a pretty slick Holy Diver, but I'm put off by death metal screams. Do you know any Killswitch songs without screaming?
@Dave Mustang, the cynical Brony how can you call yourself a brony if you don't like love and tolerance? You say it's not worth being an extremist over a "girl's TV show" when being a brony explicitly points out the fact that the show is NOT just for girls. And for the record, the morals in FiM pretty much teach you how to be nice, get along, and deal with jerks without being one yourself, so I'd say you're missing the point.
VastaKustutaBad venues breed bad communities. I don't think people join Something Awful to be dicks. I think they become dicks because they join Something Awful. Chans, SA-derived forums, comment sections etc.
VastaKustutaThese breed idiocy, they do not attract it, they breed it.
So I think to reverse the trend of becoming like the rest of the internet again we need to rethink our venues of communication.
And most important in that is no inbreeding ideas such as love and tolerance, when you do that they will naturally split and create conflict. Inbreeding of ideas is the real killer of good communities. You must always put it in perspective and, well be open to outside input. And there is nothing less conducive to that than these closed chan/comment venues.
2 cents and that.
I understand that some folks can take the show, 'love and toler[ance]' and other aspects of MLP:FiM somewhat too far perhaps; this depends on your own benchmark of what is too far of course.
VastaKustutaTo me, the show is a light-hearted escape from the rest of my life and the phrase 'love and tolerate' to me is a state of mind, so to speak. To me it means that you should always speak (or type) to someone at the very least in a neutral, better friendly manner; certainly to begin with. Other people's ideas should be listened to (or read) and understood, even if they aren't agreed with.
Some folks think you're nice, others think you're eccentric or sarcastic and if folks want to be like that, let them. Don't let it bring you down work around them, if you know what I mean.
On the counter, what some folks view as being over zealous and extreme, even fans to other fans, perhaps just need to relax a little. The best way I can think of to sum this up is: Smile and say 'No thanks'.
I don't do this on busy streets with lots of people around, but when I'm walking around the village, if someone else is walking the other way, I'll greet them. Sure I get funny looks and no response sometimes, but others it visibly cheers people up. When I'm out and about, I always do my best to avoid getting in people's way and apologise if I am in any conceivable way obstructive to someone. I hold doors, I pull silly faces at babies and I help out if ever someone needs it.
I perhaps don't understand too well, but as far as I know, to 'love and tolerate' isn't too different to Buddhist teachings. It's also very similar to 'Peace and Love' adopted by Hippies in the 60s. It's just a new, up-to-date version of an old philosophy that happens to have stemmed from/is related to a show aimed at young girls, which has earned it the ridicule it receives from some.
I'd also like to point out that I don't think 'love and tolerate' is the only good thing to come out of the show. I'm an art-y creative person and love the style. I was a modern hippie before I discovered the Pony-fanbase.
I have always believed in this philosophy that came with fandom of the show. However I will say that it is like everything else. Only in moderation. I've always looked at it as more of a defensive mechanism than anything else. I used it to consider if what I am doing is putting the other members of my community into a bad light. Should I really post that? Or should I just hold off on it, it's not really that important and to be honest, could come off as a little bit mean or stupid. Mr Mustang does bring up several good points, but I also feel that he is trying really hard to get some kind of reaction from people. I won't fault him for that, but it is what it feels like to me after reading through. I think that when it first spawned, the love and tolerate philosophy was needed and helped a lot of us get through a very tough time for us all. Dismissing it is like dismissing a part of what it was to become a Brony for a lot of us and I for one will always keep in mind that it is better to show someone a little tolerance, and a lot of love, then to reach for anger and insult someone. Just my view.
VastaKustutaremember: you gotta share, you gotta care, but singing it can CAUSE WARS
VastaKustuta^wisdom
VastaKustutaSomething I just feel like saying: before true, cultivated tolerance must come the desire to understand. And to wish to understand something requires one to care about that something. That "caring" is what I believe the "love" component of the meme is truly meaning to convey. Love is the beginning, and tolerance is the end. Sounds funny, right? Love NOT being the eventual end? Maybe I'm mixed up, who knows...
VastaKustutaBut yes, as the second last post says, attempting to hammer that in only creates greater aversion, just like when unfortunate bronies have attempted to shove MLP at people's faces (especially with the wrong episodes or, even worse, Pinkie Pie compilations). I believe it may be a result of reverse psychology and Hype Aversion based upon the replies I've usually found.
What's with the last 3 pages being blurred out and unreadable?
VastaKustutaPersonally, I have always been a nice person. I was natural quick to "love and tolerate" people and I still am.
VastaKustutaHowever, it's weird that I'm also the guy people are most afraid is going to cut their heads off in the middle of the night...
Why do people make such disturbing and seemingly random assumptions?
Autor on selle kommentaari eemaldanud.
VastaKustutaI suggest using https://essayshark.com/research-papers-for-sale.html and especially their high-quality research papers for sale because I have ordered them more than once and always everything is high quality and fast. and in general, it is better to trust such things to professionals
VastaKustutaI suggest using https://essayshark.com/research-papers-for-sale.html and especially their high-quality research papers for sale because I have ordered them more than once and always everything is high quality and fast. and in general, it is better to trust such things to professionals
KustutaHmmm... essay?
Kustuta