Lately I have seen yet another influx of fan fiction... some good, some bad. It's difficult to not just spam the front page with it.
I'm thinking of limiting it a bit further. I have been lenient with a lot of this stuff, mainly because I don't want to alienate anyone from contributing to the community as a whole... but lately it seems like people are just sending in rough drafts with hopes of getting feedback and editing once they are posted. The pre-readers have done an awesome job of filtering all of this stuff, which is clearly shown by how many 5 star fics I have been tossing into the archive lately.
(More After the Break)
There are a few options here, and obviously feel free to add new ones in the comments below.
1.) I could create a side website, send all stories there for feedback, then spotlight the good stuff here. Fanfiction.net and Deviant Art already seem fine for this, but maybe something specified to pony.
2.) Someone can set up another writers workshop over on ponychan, preferably someone who is good with editing.
3.) I can continue doing what I do now, with heavier requirements.
4.) I can take all "average" stories, and compile them into big fanfiction posts, while continuing to give the really good ones their own setups.
Either way, I really cant post all 15 stories in my box right now all in separate posts. Only ~half of us actually read the fanfics, and a lot of these could really use an editor.
So what do you guys think?
Anyway off to create the Friend Off post!
239 comments:
I like option 4.
ReplyDeleteI like number 1.
ReplyDeleteFour sounds good to me.
ReplyDeleteOption number 1 would be awesome.
ReplyDeleteFour, short stories get combined into a large post and the epics/long ones get their own?
ReplyDeleteI think 3 is the best option. Everyone should have their shot in the spotlight, provided that what the write is worth mentioning.
ReplyDeleteIt's #1 for me.
ReplyDeleteNumber 4 is the best in my opinion.
ReplyDelete4 is a fair choice,
ReplyDeleteYes, option 4 sounds good.
ReplyDeleteNumber four sounds pretty good to me.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I rarely read them, so my opinion might not count, but I like option 1. I think the group of fanfic writers would do a good job critiquing each other.
ReplyDeleteI like number 3 best.
ReplyDeleteI haven't read a single fan fic until today. I'm just too scared to waste my time, even though I do that all the time.
ReplyDeleteIt would be really nice to get shown the real good ones, so I would finally be able to build up the courage to read one.
I am for 4.
ReplyDeleteOption four sounds the best to me. Should really reduce the number of posts you make while still allowing average stories some front page attention.
ReplyDeleteOption 1. Without a doubt.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of a ponyfic.chan, with highlights posted here. That way it develops the fic community - while having the fics posted here is all very fine and well, they just seem a little bit lost among everything else.
ReplyDeleteAnd as you say, not everyone on ED wants 15 fics a day in the news feed!
1 would be better. It declutters this website and gives it more breath room for those individuals, as you mention, who are not interested in pony fan fiction.
ReplyDeleteI quite like option 4, but maybe it should be slightly spliced with option 3.
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking of this, merely because you're probably being a tad too lenient in the accepting terms.
For example, on other sites I used to frequent, there was a minimum word limit instagated, which pretty much instantly dropped the number of half baked ideas being submitted.
Just throwing some ideas into the pot!
Much love!
<3
I just assumed you were doing #4 already. But #4 is the way to go. Hopefully you have helpers reading for you before you post. Obviously you'd need that for #4 to work.
ReplyDeleteI like number 1.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing that could be done is compile a list of people willing to Beta the fanfics for uncertain authors that way the fic can go through the first draft phase without reaching your hooves.
I also agree with option 4. Mass posting of fanfiction stories that are just average so as to not spam the main page with fanfiction updates. This would work great to for One Shot stories as well. Though 5 stars do deserve there own main page posting. Also for new chapters or new fics some way to tell the new ones appart in the fanfiction archive.
4 sounds pretty good to me. Personally I just don't have enough time to read fanfiction. I honestly would if I could, and have read a few in my spare time and they were fantastic, but usually I just don't have time.
ReplyDeleteThey do seem to be filling up the front page, and I've said it before but this site has always been more about pony news rather than a place to dump fanfics. If the fanfics were more compressed into fewer news posts it would be fine though IMO. It's only bad when there's 3 or 4 fanfic posts per 1 post of news, which seems like has been happening lately. There will obviously be a lot of contrasting opinions with this post though, so to each their own.
#4 still has my vote though. Going to post anonymously this time around.
Option 1/2 personally. I come here for pony news which I may have missed on ponychan (its hard to catch everything). I really enjoy your links to non-fanfic stuff and while I think its totally fine for the fanfic stuff to be on here, I'd prefer it to be a little bit more balanced.
ReplyDeleteWell, firstly, as I said earlier, if you need another proof reader I'd be happy to help. My English isn't perfect, but its probably decent enough to be of some use.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, I am one of the bronies who reads the fanfics. So I would prefer to see them keep being posted. Its true however, that they are not all of equal quality. I can see option 3 work, though it might be nice to have some inkling as to what those heavier requirement would be. Not sending in a story (or chapter) until it properly finished and spell-checked and such seems logical though.
Alternatively, option 4 is good as well. I am going to miss refreshing ED frequently to see if any new fics are up, but probably rather that then a lot less fics.
Well, I love the fanfiction (that's actually one of the major reasons I come here).
ReplyDeleteAnd I'd have to say that option 3 or 4 would probably work best, in my opinion.
Maybe we could do like a daily fanfic post? Something kinda similar to what is done with the drawfriend stuff.
ReplyDeleteNumber one would be good, but number three may suffice as well.
ReplyDeleteI think 4 would be the best solution for this. I personally believe the fanfiction posted on EqD are posted because they are of some quality and merit, so I don't have to worry about sifting through a bunch of crap stories and possibly missing a gem hidden in all the mediocrity. With the pre-reader thing most of the crap already gets filtered out, so there's not really any need for heavier requirements.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I don't think short one-shots should be getting their own story posts. Short stories should maybe be compiled into a single post and commenters should recommend which short stories are deserving of their own post. It'd add on to the pre-reader thing by ensuring that only the quality stories are getting their own posts. Not to mention it could sort of become like a mini-competiton or something.
I don't know exactly how a oneshot post would work (maybe daily or twice a week) but it'd keep the front page from getting cluttered up too quickly. As for longer stories with multiple parts of decent length (like my story durr hurr), they should get their own posts just because longer stories tend to have much more effort put into them and are more interesting than regular one-shots.
tl;dr shortfics get compiled and the community picks outstanding fics to get its own post, longfics should continue to get their own posts
#1's my vote.
ReplyDeleteHonestly. I think you should keep up up what you're doing right now since It seems to be working. Maybe you need more pre-readers to deal with the many and many of fics. Not really make the requirements higher since that just might discourage people from submitting.
ReplyDeleteThen your fourth idea sound good too. So that it seems like another good idea. So that writers who aren't really that great can get feedback anyways so they can improve.
Is this really a problem that needs to be fixed? Sure, the poll showed that only half of us read the fanfics, but only 5% were actually annoyed by it.
ReplyDeleteI'm all for leaving it as it is; just stop bumping posts every time a writer adds another chapter. Make an announcement list on the side for those.
I really like the fanfiction here, but if other users feel EqD is spammed with it, I'm okay with toning it down a little. When I read about the problem, I immediately thought of option 4, just without highlighting certain stories. Every fic should be equal imo. As for the layout, the titles of the stories before the page break would be good, with the descriptions after the break.
ReplyDeletethe only fanfic i like is Arddun Lleuad due to its main character self narrating making you feel the world through him :)
ReplyDeleteOption 3 or 4, I never used to read fan fiction before friendship is magic, I have read some amazing stories and am still keeping up with the incomplete ones that I hooked on.
ReplyDeleteThank you for posting all the fan fic, otherwise I never would have read any of these awesome stories.
@nukeiffum
ReplyDeleteI like your idea.
Either 3 or 4.
ReplyDeleteI would have to go with #4 myself. Then let any gems that seem to shine brightly get a chance in the big spotlight.
ReplyDelete4 sounds good. A side website doesn't seem to be a very good solution, it would require quite a bit of work and probably not get visited as much. I would be happy to just check a single news post now and then with a few stories and then choose some to read or maybe just one that was recommended as a really good one. --> I vote option 4 :)
ReplyDeleteI must also agree with Nukeiffum, which is an extension of no. 4.
ReplyDeleteGotta go for 1 myself, Reducing the number of updates here for any reason would be a blow to my heart. So at least having more updates on a similar site would lessen that burden.
ReplyDeleteHonestly I've never been a big fanfic reader, but honestly some of the ones highlighted here have made me click and read. I don't really click on a lot of them but some DO catch my attention. And I don't know if any stories really have big enough followings that people talk to each other about things between chapters, but I would love to maybe see some fics highlighted when they are complete, not just when they are beginning.
ReplyDeleteIma go with option 4.
ReplyDeleteMy vote's for option #1.
ReplyDeleteYou can't segregate or limit fanfiction at this point - with the exposure ED offers right now, it will simply KILL many beginning and established authors.
ReplyDeleteWhat's needed is better organization.
I know it's possible to have different RSS channels, for starters: Fanfiction, Media, News, etc.
Creating a whole new website would only work provided people are informed VERY well about its existence, and that there are a LOT interested in it... But if the latter isn't there, posting here is redundant anyway.
I'm quite frustrated by 300 unread entries in my own RSS feed and 100 more fics on to-read list, but I think you should really continue sailing as usual if you're not sure.
At this point your actions have consequences, Sethi.
I'm normaly not that much into fanfic (read mostly the normal ones like moonbeam and everything celestia / luna related), but without the posts on this site I wouldn't even be aware that they exist.
ReplyDeleteSo I guess ether #3 or #4 would be a good choice to give the fan created content a chance.
I vote option 1.
ReplyDeleteOption 4 with the stiffer requirements from option 3 I think would make the fic readers (like myself) and the non-fic readers happy because it would reduce not only total fanfic related posts, but also reduce the total number of fanfics posted.
ReplyDeletei'm voting for 1, this would keep this website on more professional level, like hall of fame.
ReplyDeleteOption 1 would be the best if the community of people giving feedback is strong enough. Or if it were a rule that anyone requesting feedback give feedback on at least one other person's work. Like a feedback-credit system or something.
ReplyDeleteThe most reasonable with the smallest additional time-cost for you, Seth, would probably be 4. I'm pretty sure checking all the sites you do for Pony and then coming back to get the blog ready with the content is pretty time consuming.
Well personally this is the only place that I read fanfics, for one thing I like reading them on the google dice as opposed to DA, but I digress. I think 4 would work best if you made something like a "witefriend" segment, with chapter updates and longfics being the only ones with unique posts.
ReplyDelete#1 or #4, probably #1. i personally go on this site mainly because i like to see how sub-cultures like the brony community develope.
ReplyDeletethat being said, i have tried reading some of the fanfics on here (for shits and gigles) and noticed that the pre-readers seem to do a good job of choosing fan-fics that are actually noteworthy (or at least from what i can tell, i haven't tried reading any of the shipping).
number 1 seems good
ReplyDeleteI don't mind any option, but I hope the submission I recently sent in is worthy of it's own post! ( I think it is!)
ReplyDeleteuse the option 1, sound like the right choice
ReplyDeleteeither 1 or 4 sound pretty good
ReplyDeleteI'm leaning toward number 4. You guys are making some great points!
ReplyDeleteAlso I updated the FaQ with some new stuff, feel free to drop by and comment on that too!
Anyway back to friend-off building!
Y'know, I didn't read OR write fanfiction before I started coming here.... While I tend to avoid the Shipping stories, I'm reading almost everything else posted right now (I'm sure that'll diminish in time tho).
ReplyDeleteThat said, A combination of 3 and 4 seem like the best option to me. Tighten it up a little, only post things you've pre-read (And maybe recruit a few more pre-readers. Heck, I'll volunteer if you need more ponies for the job) and condensing multiple story update posts into one big one like you do for the Drawfriend will minimize their "footprint" on the front page.
That said, I also like the idea of a workshop on Pony-chan. Lord knows, finding a good editor can be hard sometimes... >.<
Option 4, and maybe instead of bumping multipart stories to the front page every time there's an update, a single post containing all the "there's a new chapter to Epic Fic X", bumping the main post only when it starts and ends.
ReplyDeleteAmongst other things, a "fic update" post would hit the RSS feed; right now updated fics don't get a new RSS post. Since I read a lot of fics I have to keep an eye on the main page for longfic updates.
I think option 1 would be best.
ReplyDeleteI'd have to say 1 or 4 or better yet a combination of the two. You could have a side site for all the daily submitted stuff and post summaries of the latest side site posts and epic story updates posts here.
ReplyDeleteWell, I think that the badly written ones should just get thrown out. There've been a couple badly written ones get through lately, but other than that, they all seem really well put together.
ReplyDeleteOther than that, I think they should stay in separate posts, even if you end up spacing them 2 or so hours apart so as not to push the important news down to quickly (then again, I'm probably just mentioning this as I'm OCD about keeping track of where I am in the archive and think different things should have different entries)
Another workshop over on ponychan would be useful too.
Also, throw everything written in 2nd person out (that's just personal opinion though)
I'm going for 4. 1 is a good idea too, but even as a fan-fiction follower, I don't think I'd go to a site exclusively for fan-fiction.
ReplyDeleteI like EqD because of the main "news", really, and stop to read the fan-fictions that I find along the way and catch my interest. Going to a site exclusively for it, even if it kept on a standard of quality, wouldn't catch that much my attention.
I would choose either #1 or #4 they both seem fine.
ReplyDeleteBut wouldn't it be better to try to reorganize EqD a little from a simple blog to more of an actual news site, make thing run a bit more parallel. Though I really love the simplicity, but the stuff seem to be coming in pretty fast lately and putting that in one big mainstream seem a bit much.
More news but give some of them less priority and some more priority. Or you could simply have two columns on the front page, one exclusive to fanfics, leaving the other to the rest so they don't have to be pushed out so fast because of all the fanfics. Just some ideas.
@chinlamp
ReplyDeleteSecond person... *shudders*
I think option 1 would be the most benificial to the community, but it seems like the most amount of effort.
ReplyDeleteOption 4 also seems like a good choice.
I think a combo of 3 and 4 would work fine.
ReplyDeleteALL stories are subjected to higher standards, and then all shorts to be combined into one post, while longer/best can have their own? :)
Try cutting out crossover fanfictions or keeping them to their own day/post
ReplyDeleteI like option 1 personally
ReplyDeleteI don't read a lot of fanfiction but I like it how it is.
ReplyDeleteBut if you're going to change it, daily compilation of stories (number 4) i the best choice for me.
Just adding my voice towards option #4. I love the idea of 'Writefriend' updates. The Drawfriend posts let me see a whole ton of excellent art I normally wouldn't get to view because of how many different places it is posted in. I think doing the same for fanfiction with Writefriend posts would be a good way to still give authors some exposure for their works without flooding the front page.
ReplyDeleteI think option 4 could be good, just not sure how it would be decided which were notable enough for their own post. I could see that getting ugly. Option 3 could also be good, perhaps pointing writers that need some editing to somepony who could help with that.
ReplyDeleteI haven't seen this said yet, but what about only posting COMPLETE fics? Now, I'm not sure if this is out of the question or anything, and as someone who couldn't write creatively to save his life, I'm not sure if this would be a hindrance to writefriends. I used to be a fanfic moderator for a fan site, and we NEVER posted incomplete fics. The people who wanted to see the WIPs would go to the forums, which in this case might be ponychan/fimchan. I think it could really weed out some of the less...amazing work that sometimes doesn't seem to get finished anyway; or at least cut down on the number of fic posts.
ALL that said, if you ever need more pre-readers, or if you ever wanted to suggest an actual PROOF-reader(another idea), I would be happy to oblige.
/shameless self promotion
tl;dr
Post only COMPLETED fics and/or Option 4 and/or Option 3
Helpful, huh?lol
#4 is probably best.
ReplyDeleteI'm starting to feel the writing itch again, but I've no idea what I want to write...
In the meantime I'm helping a fellow brony by acting as a sounding board, proofreader, and editor for him. I look forward to the day his work appears on ED.
I vote for option 3; while I already get a pretty good dose of pony fiction via my DeviantArt watchlist, there's a lot of awesome stuff posted to Google Docs that I have no other way of finding except via this site.
ReplyDeleteOption 1 would be ok as long as it's not an imageboard-style site. I may be quite the minority on this, but I've never liked imageboards at all, and I really don't think it's a workable format for ANY site, especially one for posting stories/artwork. Anyway, a pony-fiction blog that allows anyone to post, with moderators to approve posts, seems like it'd be a great way to make this happen.
I'd go for 4.
ReplyDeleteAll shorts and one shots get compiled like fanart in one big daily post and the big ones, exemplary ones, and/or series ones gets their own post.
I don't think there's a problem with the level of posts; splitting fic off into a seperate site might risk stuff being marginalised.
ReplyDeleteI've really started to get into reading a lot more fanfic (from well, nothing) thanks to EqD and it would be a shame to see that stop. I'd say just make sure the quality is good enough and then it can be posted. There's only been a few posted recently that haven't been much good. And as someone else said, that poll indicated that people are fine with how the fic posting is going.
The only issue with putting stuff in grouped posts and then picking the 'good' stuff from that for their own ones is that you'd get the same issue as with the April Foals event, in which people would be bombarded with lots of stories all at once.
But also as a community, we should support new writers, help them get exposure and feedback to improve.
Another vote for option 4. I love the site, but I've always thought it'd be better if writefriends were treated the same as drawfriends, and we had all the fanfics compiled into a once daily post with the truly exceptional pieces highlighted by their own posts.
ReplyDeleteThat may also increase the interest in fan fiction by narrowing down the choices. I usually skip fanfics that are linked on this site, since there are so many of them. However, if they were all put into one post, again putting really great works in their own posts, I'd probably read the ones that were well recommended by commenters.
@Old Kentucky Shark Problem with that is when you get longfics like mine. If you wait until that's completed then you'd have a whole novel on here, and a lot of people would be discouraged from trying to read something that daunting.
ReplyDelete@OldKentuckyShark
ReplyDeleteYou're trying to put me out of a job!
Seriously though, I've been going through the archive finding all the incompletes missing that tag, and I can't believe I didn't think of that. I know that it would mean not posting the amazingly long stories until they finish, and some people would lose interest and we may get less really long ones, but this should cut down a fair bit on updates. I like this idea.
i'd prefer number 1.
ReplyDelete@Old Kentucky Shark
ReplyDeleteI have considered that, but some of these series stories are reaching upwards of 50pages. I can't really ask people to submit 50 pages initially for a series.
It's easy. Let me read what you are going to post, and I'll tell you whether the story is worth of the blog or not.
ReplyDeleteOr better yet... simply don't post shipping fics.
Bam. Problem solved.
@Cottonmouth
ReplyDeleteIf I did that, I'm pretty sure the only ones that would go up would be by Author:Cottonmouth.
@Sethisto
ReplyDeleteYou have some delusion that I am a narcissistic person who considers himself as the only good writer here.
There are other good writers here. Sadly, they don't get the attention they deserve.
Stop accepting these "chip fics", and let's keep it to decadent desserts.
1 and 4 are both good
ReplyDeleteI love the fics.
ReplyDeleteAll of them!
Option 4 gets my vote.
@Blueshift
ReplyDeleteI've also never read fanfic, and the ponies have driven me to it. I agree that there really aren't that many subpar posts anymore, most likely thanks to the proof readers, and personally, I don't feel that the amount needs to be cut down.
A good point is made. The April Foals event gave evidence that writefriends probably won't work.
I may be in the minority, but when I started coming here, it was for the news and occasional video. Now it's mostly for the fanfics. Let's face it, there's really not all that much 'news' on the ponies, it's mostly just general interest stuff (clay bust of Fluttershy, pony plushies) and the fanfiction is usually really good. I really don't think marginalising it is a good idea, and even if you spread out the posts of it a bit more, I don't think it should be cut back or put on another site, nor do I think it should be compiled into one big post.
All I have to say is that we need more sadfics.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with 4 is that I often use the star ratings and comments to help me gauge which ones I think I'd find worth reading, so if you can make it so each fic can get its own separate rating, 4 would probably be the way to go, help reduce the clutter a good bit.
ReplyDeleteHowever, another concern would possibly be brought with this. To find fics I like or fics I want to check up on the comments on, I like being able to type the title of the fic into the address bar to just go to it, and if it's changed to Writefriend Post #1 or whatever, it'll be a lot more steps to find any new comments (or replies to my comments) on fics I want to be involved in the discussion of or fics on which I wanna stay aware of the public opinion.
I vote #4. Writefriend posts to go with Drawfriend posts seems like a good idea. Also, needs more ship fics, just to annoy the above.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to see option 1 put into place. Maybe a sub site of EqD where all the stories go, and then post the 4 and 5 star ones to the main page. I think this would work better than option 4 because posting multiple stories in one post feels almost like you'd be discounting the authors.
ReplyDeleteI don't think I've read a bad fanfic from this website so far, though.
Number 4 sounds good.
ReplyDeleteIt would be 'nice' if you could, when grouping, try to group ship-,clop-,and normal fics together. Post one category every day. I love reading fanfics (needs-more-pony.jpg), But even I could wait three days.
I favor a mix of Option 1 and 2. If fanfiction is going to receive better care and attention, we're going to need something more persistent than a blog or even an imageboard. Equestria Daily will always act as a quick and convenient way to read up on the latest MLP:FIM content, but it's inconvenient for connecting fans with each other.
ReplyDelete@Blueshift
ReplyDeleteI've also never read fanfic, and the ponies have driven me to it. I agree that there really aren't that many subpar posts anymore, most likely thanks to the proof readers, and personally, I don't feel that the amount needs to be cut down.
A good point is made. The April Foals event gave evidence that writefriends probably won't work.
I may be in the minority, but when I started coming here, it was for the news and occasional video. Now it's mostly for the fanfics. Let's face it, there's really not all that much 'news' on the ponies, it's mostly just general interest stuff (clay bust of Fluttershy, pony plushies) and the fanfiction is usually really good. I really don't think marginalising it is a good idea, and even if you spread out the posts of it a bit more, I don't think it should be cut back or put on another site, nor do I think it should be compiled into one big post.
4. It makes the best sense, as it avoids hoop jumping as well as a separation of the focus within the fandom. Also, someone will probably have something like option 1 pop up anyways. But I would recommend something like a weekly or even monthly mentionables of the "gems" hidden within the average stories, so they aren't lost forever amongst the vastness of pony fandom.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, I was horrified at how long my comment was.
ReplyDelete@nukeiffum
So long as it's still chapterized, I would think people could pretty much do what I assume they do now. If you don't like the first chapter or two, you don't read the updates/you don't keep reading the rest.
@Sethisto
Like I said, I don't pretend to know if this is good/bad for a writer. Personally I don't like starting an incomplete fic, not knowing when/if it will be updated, so I might be biased. Maybe a really long series like you mentioned would have that much more impact with the people who like the really long stuff when it came complete? And there's always the chans for getting some feedback on incomplete stuff.
I'd say either option 1, or somehow both 3 and 4. Too be honest some of these are still not that great (that braeburn/TS story recently hurt my eyes just with it's editing), and 3 would help limit them somewhat, while 4 would make them fun and easier to read.
ReplyDelete1 would help separate the community in a good way, but as some have said, that lack of exposure could be harmful to some.
Whatever you do, add an option to filter out grimdark and shipping.
ReplyDeleteI vote for #1. I am really into the fanfics and would be fine with a fanfic specific pony site and putting the good ones here.
ReplyDelete@Blueshift
ReplyDeleteA good point is made. The April Foals event gave evidence that writefriends probably won't work.
I may be in the minority, but when I started coming here, it was for the news and occasional video. Now it's mostly for the fanfics. Let's face it, there's really not all that much 'news' on the ponies, it's mostly just general interest stuff (clay bust of Fluttershy, pony plushies) and the fanfiction is usually really good. I really don't think marginalising it is a good idea, and even if you spread out the posts of it a bit more, I don't think it should be cut back or put on another site, nor do I think it should be compiled into one big post.
4.
ReplyDelete4(I write generically wierd things) or mostly 3.
ReplyDeleteI'm not that great a writer as if it weren't obvious, so if it's stricter(#3) I'll try all the harder to write something worthy of peoples time, which is something I don't do normally.
Not to mention mine is probably one of the few that cause this news post to happen anyway with it's poorly written plot. (I'm a downer all the time as well as evil, get used to me)
Ugh, my post keeps saying it gets posted, then disappearing on refresh.
ReplyDeleteAnd of course, that one stays there.
ReplyDeleteA good point was made by Blueshift. The April Foals event gave evidence that writefriends may not work.
I may be in the minority, but when I started coming here, it was for the news and occasional video. Now it's mostly for the fanfics. Let's face it, there's really not all that much 'news' on the ponies, it's mostly just general interest stuff (clay bust of Fluttershy, pony plushies) and the fanfiction is usually really good. I really don't think marginalising it is a good idea, and even if you spread out the posts of it a bit more, I don't think it should be cut back or put on another site, nor do I think it should be compiled into one big post.
Option 4
ReplyDeleteI like option 1. Maybe a link on the top nav to it. I never read the fanfics mostly on principle, and I have a feeling a lot of people are like me. If the site was separate but connected, it would allow people who are in to that stuff to have a place to easily access it, but wouldn't take up space in the news feed for people who don't like it
ReplyDelete@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteIt got spam filtered, I restored them all. Hopefully that teaches it not to filter you!
I never read the fanfiction and I'd personally like an alternate frontpage that encompasses art+news+media+comics.
ReplyDelete-options 1 and 2 are similar, and now that they've been mentioned it's only a matter of time untill someone makes it happen...
ReplyDelete-3: more restrictions are okay
-only posting complete fanfics is a good idea. I wouldn't mind if my incomplete fanfic was taken down, I'd just resubmit when I finished it. of course with some writers/trolls there lies the potential for spam in that policy... I'm still thinking of a way around that...
-prereaders and proofreaders are good
-ignore emails that don't abide by a stringent submitting format. it would help with clarity anyway.
-4:We could make fanfics like the "drawfriend stuff" posts
-anything below 25 or 50 kb can be classified a "short story" and be put in a "writefriend" post
-larger files can get their own posts
-someone could go through the large ones quickly to make sure that they're text files, and not expanded with pictures just to increase file size
-fanfics posted on the fanfic page instead of in "home"?...of course we could do that for almost every kind of news, and if we did that across the board we wouldn't really need the homepage anymore... of course we could repurpose it and use it for FAQ, links to other brony websites, polls, and milestone celibrations (like when we reach 10 million views or something).
Fan fiction is what keeps me interested in the fandom, to be honest. A side site would be magical, maybe something like what the Buffy/Faith people have set up here: http://buffynfaith.net/fanfictions/index.php
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't look like it would be that difficult to set up, though I know nothing about coding.
What might be even simpler to implicate would be a tickbox system where you can choose what sort of posts the front page displays.
ReplyDeleteIs that possible with the blog spot software?
While I do like #4, it will inevitably create a lot of drama, as those who are deemed 'average' will complain to beat the band. Quality is such a subjective subject when it comes to creative endeavors.
ReplyDeleteThat would suggest there needs to be some standardized grading to determine which ones should be featured. Which suggests option #1 if the infrastructure can be set up and the people to work it.
If that can't be done, option #4 will work as long as the disappointed writers refrain from protesting.
3 or 4 not sure which
ReplyDelete4. Definitely 4.
ReplyDeleteI don't care since I dont' read fics at all, but v1 seems rational for me.
ReplyDeleteWould be nice to get rid of all "Story:" updates from EqD.
I have an idea.
ReplyDeleteAll the fan fiction writers could gather at Fanfiction.net as it moves slower then Equestria Daily and could use a little steam powered coal for it's engine. (It has a woefully underused pony section. Just maybe if you guys focus there hard enough you can get character drop boxes for those of you who love shipping.)
Just leave a linke like(http://www.fanfiction.net/cartoon/My_Little_Pony/) connected to this site and then have someone highlight the better stories.
Give me a reason why this won't work and don't say because it would leave out the google dockers and the Deviant Artists.
Forgot to mention that this would require someone to trawl fan fictions like the pre-readers are already doing.
ReplyDeleteit's a toss up between 1 and 4. loads of good points made so far. i'd go with 4. keep it centralized--like having a comprehensive fanfic section of EqD, and posting running popular story updates to the front news page. either option would likely solve the front page clutter problem tho, but some1 mentioned a lack of interest in visiting a dedicated fanfic site, which i also feel. yeah, no. 4
ReplyDelete4 sounds like the best , 1 sounds like alot of work for you . and im shure you busy as it is
ReplyDeletePersonally, I'd love option 1, but failing that 3 would be fine by me.
ReplyDeleteThere are so many fics on here now, and many are of such dubious quality that I rarely even check ANY of them out anymore. Featuring too many fics can end up driving people away just as effectively as not featuring them would.
A place where we could have the majority of fanfiction stored or indexed, while occasionally featuring top rated fics over here, seems ideal. Maybe occasionally feature random less-viewed fics that need ratings every so often as well. It'd be especially great if there was a way to find similar fics based on the ones you already like.
Doing this might end up requiring a lot of coding, though. I don't know what sort of open source code is out there for a site like I'm envisioning; it'd probably require more than a simple blog or bbs page.
I like the idea of a workshop, every few days there is a story "digest" with the links to all of the current workshop fics. If a n author feels it is ready for EqD, they can put it up for consideration and have a vote, with potential EqD postings also having their own spot on the digest post.
ReplyDelete@D. Shadows
ReplyDeleteMy issue with that is that I (and I'm sure many others) prefer to post their fic in one place (ie Deviantart) because there's already a network of watchers and it is easier to keep tabs on feedback. If you start making people post a story to different sites, it can get a bit messy keeping track of what is what.
Also I personally find fanfiction.net really clunky to use, and horribly formatted.
4 seems to be the most fair, but I think that 2 would be a really good idea whatever happens. Then again, a place that's dedicated to giving feedback would also be great - one of my biggest problems is that I just can't seem to get any words on my stuff.
ReplyDelete@D. Shadows
ReplyDeleteI mainly use this site because of google dockers and DA, makes my life easier and also peppier.
I hop on the site and I say "O look a new random fic" click it and read. So many of these stories are google docs and its hard to get a hold of links sometimes, and DA is well... BIG, this site cuts it down a little for us. And with it is random news, info, and videos to sweeten it all up. :P
The awesomeness that is EqD would be diminished if we lost fanfics. Also the new site would have the same problem, we would have to surf through dozens more fics, looking for the good ones, as there may well be more unedited material to deal with.
I like option 4.
ReplyDeleteI would pick #1 or #3
ReplyDeleteRemember, you were elected to lead, not to read...
...I was quoting the Simpsons movie right there...
Now personally, I feel that a seperate website is PERFECT because frankly, it is hard to get much feedback on other websites.
1,2 or 4 seems like the best options.
ReplyDeletePersonally I vote for option 4 the most. I don't normally like any fanfiction and I mainly only come here for Pony news, pony toys and pony media.
I was wondering why you hadn't started a writefriend type thing like you do with the art. yea I vote for 4
ReplyDeleteOption 3!!!
ReplyDelete--> Option 3 rotates through a lot of Drawfriend stuff and encourages MORE!
--> Option 3 because while I have yet to read any fanfiction (I is purist snob, or just afeared) I love to see what subjects people are writing about, to see what spurs them to write.
--> Option 3 shows the amazing productivity of Bronies.
BY CELESTIA'S BEARD, OPTION THREE FOREVER!
elaboration on a post:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.equestriadaily.com/2011/04/discussion-what-are-your-views-on.html?showComment=1303596129824#c6908222602039581073
woah, wut have I done I'mnotgoodwiwthcomputers.jpg
3:
suggestion to Sethisto: ignore all fanfic emails that do not follow the submitting format exactly: instead of emailing angry writers you could just make a note of that policy on the submitting page. besides, it's better for clarity anyway.
4:
another suggestion:
yah, news could go on the respective pages, and also u could probably put the "submit" page in with the FAQ
and also the writefriend equivalent of drawfriend things, if implemented, should be based on file size, not quality. Easiest way to judge file size would be to copy the word content into a notepad or something
I would love to see another website for that kinda stuff
ReplyDeleteI think option 4 would be a pretty dandy idea. Though maybe a "gem of the week"-ish post for the average stories could be done too? /shrug
ReplyDeleteI'd say option 3, to move the fanfics to a different blog would slow this place down too much.
ReplyDelete~If~ it's true that only half of us read them, then..
ReplyDeleteMy vote is for #1:
-A side website could give them the specific attention they need in regards to editing.
-Because everyone would be there for the fics, they could judge each entry more critically before handing EqD the best-written few.
-Having a dedicated website would allow them to categorize their genres more specifically. It's higher specificity which is not available otherwise in EqD.
An idea to solve the discouragement would be:
- Have EqD display a weekly "best of each fic genre" to foster competition.
- With it, a list of "Honorable Mentions" with the titles of the "better-average" fics.
the idea of (1) is good but if it's gonna be another blog-type site then there's really no improvement. (4) sound simple and straightforward, i'm liking it.
ReplyDeletebut i really wish authors would use fanfiction.net - i hate reading google docs, even deviantart fics, and the blog format of this site isn't really useful to readers. ff.net has great search optins, text displaying options, chapters, dammit it's a perfect fanfiction platform!
You should make a poll out of this Sethisto.
ReplyDeleteWhen you look at the list of categories and see a good half of them are author tags, you have to think whether this is really a sustainable system. #1 seems the best solution, since it mirrors how the art posts go, which works well enough as far as I can see.
ReplyDeleteDon't get me wrong, but given the highly varying quality of fanfiction, I just don't see the justification for giving each story a news post.
I like #1, though I kinda hate to put the onus on you for running another site.
ReplyDeleteI like option 4 because I don't want to have to have another tab open for just fanfics without knowing which ones are good or just mediocre.
ReplyDelete4 seems managable. This site is where I get the majority of my fan fic fix BTW.
ReplyDelete#1 please.
ReplyDeleteI don't read fan fics, but I don't mind them and think they are an important part of our community. That said, I do find in slightly inconvenient that there are so many on the front page when I'm not interested in reading them.
As such I believe number one would be the best option.
#4 is messy, because fanart and fanfic are completely different. You need a larger investment to skim fanfics, and art is so much easier on the viewer.
ReplyDelete#1 or #3 seem most reasonable. /fic/ over on ponychan tries to do this, but it's hard to go through everything, not to mention people who send to you BEFORE letting other humans look through their stuff. All the editing advice going to hell...
You could have people submit their link with an additional link from a reviewing site, so you could review the reviews. That way you'd get to up the quality without having to rush them onto the blog.
They're just fanfics, they'll still be good in 12 hours.
1.
ReplyDeleteI hat trudging through a million fanfic posts for all the other stuff. Spotlighting a few is alright, but I always thought ED was about everything pony related, not only about fanfics.
I vote 'YES' on Opotition #4!
ReplyDeleteI really don't mind the fanfiction posts! I don't read much fanfiction unless one seems to be really popular or good, but it's not really a bother for me to scroll past fanfiction posts. But I like option 4!! Because there may be more people like me who only read the stories that are told to be "really good" so I would read those fanfics and skip over the average posts. But I think that would organize things really well, even for the people who read the fanfiction or don't read it at all. I feel like if the stories were linked on a different website all together I would forget to check it and never read pony fiction again!
ReplyDeleteI'd have to say 1 :)
ReplyDeleteI've been reading a lot of fics from this site. There's a lot of them I actually enjoy, with the only exception being the human-insertion ones. I don't like any of those.
ReplyDeleteI'm liking #1. Showcase the really good stuff so I can read a few after work then let me sift for gems on the weekends.
ReplyDeleteas I tried to imply in my tl:dr,
ReplyDeletehttp://www.equestriadaily.com/2011/04/discussion-what-are-your-views-on.html?showComment=1303596129824#c6908222602039581073
a mixture of all of these solutions, 1,2,3 and 4, as well as some of the other bright ideas posted here, would work best
also, can anyone tell me how you all get the hyperlink thingy to work?
I keep seeing FanFiction.net bantied about as an alternative. Elsewhere I've gotten good vibes for A03 (an Archive Of Our Own). How does A03 stack up against FF.net?
ReplyDelete(This is NOT a vote for splitting up Eq Daily, I hold firm to option 3.)
I'd go with #1
ReplyDeleteA little button to hide the Fanfic posts might also do the trick.
Fanfiction.net is not that clunky. I go deviantart on a few occasions for art and maybe a fan fiction but every site has it's own merits. I come here because there are some things I can't find anywhere else.
ReplyDelete1, 3 and 4 altogether are most likely to happen.
Okay what about this?
Make a list of stories people actually want to see published to Equestria Daily or it's eventual sister site "The Pony Publishers".
Think of Pony Trigger way back when in the comments with the Corridor of Cupcakes video, nobody is writing that yet and I want to read it Rainbow Sword and all. (Maybe the author "Memories of Days Long Past" could do it?) I know Inkwell-pony did an awesome job on the character art now if only we can comission someone to do the writing with a fresh time traveling shenaningans plot.
Is there such a thing as a commission site? Because I've never seen one.
I'm being random aren't I... I'll be quiet now... sorry for being here...
I had written a HUGE BIG ASS paragraph of text about my position on fan-fiction and my questions about Option 4...
ReplyDeleteBut it seems the blog decided to **** me and eat the whole thing into the VOID. Lovely when that happen...
Anyways...
How can the Option 4 even work ?
Take >all "average" stories, and compile them<
...How can they be ''average'' you you didn't let them be posted individually and be judged individually ?
After all, its the votes that determine if people ''think'' a story is good or not, right ?
So, unless you make Posts with like 5-10 stories AND you are able to give EACH stories their OWN Voting Bar IN the Post... Unless that, I don't see own it could work -well- ?
4 seems like the best.
ReplyDeleteOption 1.
ReplyDeleteI'm personally in favor of option number one, although it seems like a lot of work to set up a second website just for pony fanfiction. I have half a mind to do it myself, but I know that I don't have the time right now.
ReplyDeleteI would be quite happy if option #4 is taken myself. I've been writing some MLP fanfiction myself lately and I wouldn't mind if it is placed in a large group of other average fanfics once it is released.
ReplyDeleteSeparating the exceptional works from the average will also make it easier for somebody to find the most interesting reads, which is always a good thing!
I dont care as long as memories of days long past is always posted here x3
ReplyDeleteI love blogger, but I really wish I could turn off that spam filter. I think I could deal with 2-3 ipod adds in exchange for the 30 comments it locks away.
ReplyDeleteOption 1 would almost certainly make a website that either isn't visited at all, or get so much traffic away from this one that this one becomes no longer relevant.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I'd prefer you kept the course, but if you absolutely must do something, then I guess 4.
Just do something, for the love of god.
ReplyDelete#4 would work if there was a way to rate the stories within the post.
ReplyDeleteIt would be even better to have like a monthly post of some of the best "average" stories.
The only problem I see is that the fics with chapters would be somewhat problematic to keep in order with such a system.
I think we're all overcomplicating it already.
ReplyDeleteDefinatly #1 for me now...but I suddenly feel guilty for sending in a story, even though it has been proofread already...
ReplyDeleteAnother drawback is that there are probably a large number of people who haven't weighed in on this that love fanfics. Starting a new site would move all of them to that site or not continue coming at all. Do you really want to jeopardise your chances of reaching 10 million views before season 2 like that?
ReplyDeleteI like number 1. My question is, depending on which of these you choose to do, what will happen to the stories that are already being posted here on equestriadaily?
ReplyDeletePersonally I'd like option 1. Some place with well organized and rated pony fics just for giving reviews and to read.
ReplyDeleteBut I'd prefer it'd still be part of this site. Just have a separate area for updates about fanfics and leave the front page for other news.
I see all the support for four, and I can understand it because it keeps stories "here", but the data manager in me is screaming, "No, no, NO!" because the post structure seems to fall into the trap that some has pointed out... one star rating for the post, not the individual stories, and searching would be problematic.
ReplyDeleteI lean towards #1 because of this, but I know that #1 would not be a trivial undertaking.
The first option seems very nice. Get bored? Go to the Alt Fanfic website! Somethign in one of them bugs ya to no end like a runon sentence or Wall O' Text fic? Give them feedback! Not a bad idea. =D
ReplyDeleteMy favorite part of the site, I would have to say, is the fanfiction.
ReplyDelete1 or 2 looks good, mayyybe 4.
I want to say option 4, but that would cause a lot of clutter in the comments.
ReplyDeleteOption 3 seems pretty viable. People just making various rough-built stories don't need to have them over-stuff a blog.
Option 1 would probably be best though. A nice little pony-specific fic site. Works for me, though it seems it'd probably make it harder on you for our sake.
I think another site would be good. It has a lot of advantages mostly easier and more categories. More categories would work for me, I want to write a fanfic but ever since I wrote my first Sonic the Hedgehog fanfic back in the late 90's I have had the hardest time writing stories for main characters. I have this bad habit of making OC's and just placing them in the world and have little to no interactions with the main characters. Come to think of it the only thing that makes my stuff fan fiction is that it takes place in the same world.
ReplyDeleteThat is why a separate website would work for me.
Number one would be ideal; the huge influx of all this fanfiction that keeps coming and coming and coming really is at such a degree that it could use its own place.. the real issue is finding someone to make and manage this place.
ReplyDeleteSo though #1 is probably the best solution, #4 is the best compromise; to just lump like stories together.
#4 sounds simplest for you...the separate website would've been a great idea, but it would've been kind of redundant seeing as a good number of the stories you highlight here are just links to FFN and DA anyway.
ReplyDeleteA larger set of sub-editors might be helpful. You could make a post about sending in applications along with a work sample.
1 and 4 seem to be by far the most popular alternatives.
ReplyDeleteSo, what about combining them?
@MyLittleBrony
ReplyDeleteSo that would entail a site of utter chaos, that spouts forth all the fics, the good and average onto this site... Seems a little odd but it could work; it would save many from the horrors of the "Unedited."
One and four seem to have won, but I still believe in #3.
ReplyDeleteI like one also. bonus points for it being easily browseable with build in rating systems... and comments :)
ReplyDelete@MyLittleBrony
ReplyDeleteAn excellent idea! Bravo, sir/madam!
I've been coming here more and more for the fanfic -- not really into shipping but more into the epic-length stuff.
ReplyDeleteMy favorite option is #1 but with a bit better organization and search features. Initially sorting by character seemed like a good idea but it's gotten too unwieldy.
I do appreciate that series are clumped together into single entries -- that's better than some places. Maybe have 'rooms' for more prolific authors. Give them a room if they have a total of 15 or more rating stars (e.g. 4 4-star stories... 3 5-star stories..). Also a separate 'workshop room' for the 'less complete - grammatically challenged' stories.
Honestly I'm not sure what the best thing would be -- I'm just throwing out ideas.
Number one sounds like it could benefit the community the most. It's always nice to have a place where ponies can have their stuff proofread before going "live". It's an important process and it isn't fair to use EqD as a proofreading system.
ReplyDeleteWell, I'm agree with number one. I don't care for fanfiction (not only FiM fanfiction, but fanfiction as a whole: too many mary-sues, shipping and out-of-character stuff) but the rest of Equestria Daily is just what I need.
ReplyDeleteI'd say, combine 1 and 2, the workshop'll help aspiring writers learning the craft through Fanfiction a lot. Also, try to encourage the excellent fanfict writers to try their chops transfering to original stories.
ReplyDeleteMy vote is for option 4, but it seems like everyone is split on what to do. Maybe set it to a poll to decide?
ReplyDeleteAs one of many writers, I am very pro fanfic.
ReplyDeleteI understand the people that hate it (especially the anti-shipping people. I mean, they are ponies after all), but fanfic is generally good. Not the stories themselves (*points to various horrid writings, including Pinkie's Tongues*), but for writers, it's great practice.
*looks at BlogPony's ideas for what to do*
1.) I like this idea.
2.) Another good idea, but there's also a decent number of us who have not been to any-chan.
3.) I approve of this. Of course, that'll probably knock out some of my own stuff, but that's ok!
4.) I'm iffy on this. What makes a story average is all subjective. For instance, there are a few stories on here that I absolutely love (and others hate) and then there are a few that I can't even bring myself to read (and yet others love them).
So, um:
tl;dr: Do whatever. I don't really care, as long as there are still stories to read, and I can continue writing.
I would vouch for option 1, and also offer my services as a pre-reader.
ReplyDeleteI personaly like option 3 because, quite simply, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. From what I can tell from my time here (Since early Febuary) people don't seem to mind the fanfic here... they just sorta skip over it if they don't want to read it. So personaly I believe that what you should do is just put in heavier requirements (Which I'm assuming means heavier prereading by your editors) to help better refine and weed out the lesser fan fics. Personaly I don't read much of the fan fics anymore... though I relize that others do, and I don't want to impeed on their fix of fan fic. So I think it is important that you keep the fan fic on this site.
ReplyDeleteI want a combo of 1 and 2, please : 3
ReplyDeleteI need to get better at writing before I can post...
Maybe I'm just being curmudgeonly, but it seems to me that at least a third of the fics that get posted would be eliminated if there was a zero-tolerance policy for spelling/grammar errors.
ReplyDeleteTo me, an author who can't be bothered to have his/her work proofread and spellchecked before sending it in has already made a pretty clear statement about their commitment to quality. If I were in charge, I would tell my pre-readers to reject out of hand any fic that had such errors. Just send the author a note that says, "Sorry, your work needs to be proofread for spelling/grammar before it can be considered."
Maybe you feel that's to extreme. And maybe that by itself wouldn't get rid of enough stories to address the glut that you're dealing with. But I think it would be a good start.
Option 4 with a side of Option 2, plz
ReplyDeleteI like option 4. Also, why don't you set up a poll for this question?
ReplyDeleteI may be in the minority, but I'd prefer if they were on a separate site altogether and the cream of the crop were spotlighted every once and a while.
ReplyDeleteI have discovered quite a few good stories through recommendations, but I don't really care to see the latest shipping fic every time I check the site for news.
@Chris
ReplyDelete"Maybe you feel that's to extreme"
"To" should be "too" in this instance.
Sorry, had to be a grammar nazi to a grammar nazi. Proofread next time. kthx.
And just to add to my thoughts a bit, let me add that I think option 1 adds little to the community, as there are already several communities (Ponychan, FiMchan, FF.net's MLP section, etc.) that provide that exact service.
ReplyDeleteI don't like option 4 at all, unless some way of addressing the above-mentioned problems with star ratings and finding old fics are addressed.
I have no problem with increasing the standards for stories (let me plug a zero-tolerance policy for spelling/grammar errors once more!), but honestly even that isn't absolutely necessary. This blog ends up having a lot of stories on it, but so what? It's pretty clear that most people find it mildly annoying at worst, and many enjoy all the stories. I myself wouldn't mind seeing a few of the less polished ones rejected, but I'd be wary about making big changes to a system that everyone seems to agree is working tolerably well as it stands.
@Anonymous
ReplyDelete...touche.
I'll stand by my point, though. If that comment was submitted as a story, I wouldn't publish it!
@Chris
ReplyDeleteHaha, you're a good sport. I can appreciate that. I get where you're coming from, though.
I like that fanfiction is posted here, even though I don't read a lot of it.
ReplyDeleteBut you're right. I've read stuff that could really use editing. I'm pretty good at checking my stuff to make sure to catch grammatical errors before it's submitted. I don't like stories that are well written plot-wise, but suck grammatically. Bad grammar can totally ruin a story, and may even cause bronies to not read it.
For those who don't check their grammar, bad grammar can lower the rating of your story, and if it's really bad grammar, that's all the comments are going to end up being about. Bad grammar is like a shield that's hard to see passed.
As for which option, I like the way things are now...but if stuffs filling up the inbox, you might have to do something. I like the option of compiling the not-so-good stuff...Maybe have your pre-readers each rate it, than average it. Anything that gets, say...3 stars goes into one post, while 4 and 5 stars get their own. If the story gets better, you can move it and give it its own post.
Some people say fan-fic is good practice.
ReplyDeleteI honestly think that, from a visual art standpoint, an artist improves from generating their own original ideas. Fan art only gets someone so far.
I'm not pro-fanfic, but I'm not for it by any means. I've been absolutely terrified of reading MLP fanfic. If it parallels farart in any way, then *most* of it is bound to be nightmare inducingly childish, and poorly crafted...
And the ponyporn. It makes me sad I joined this fandom.
Number 1 would be fantastic. Having an organised forum where authors can collaborate and proof read would be great. As good as ponychan is, I don't think it would be as good for sharing and proofing as having a side-website.
ReplyDeleteNumber 2 would be excellent also. If someone could make an infopic about basic grammar, dialogue formatting etc. that would be great. The infopics could be stickied and linked to Equestria Daily too.
Implementing options 1 and 2 would subvert the need to implement option 3 for a significant degree as fic quality should naturally increase. Nevertheless, not all fanfics are made equal so bunching up "average" fics is a good idea too.
@Makkon
ReplyDeleteYea, I'm pretty anti-clopfic. And anti-ponyporn.
That said, a lot of the more recent stuff (ignores a certain couple in order to make the next statement true) has been pretty good about not being scary.
Now: "Fan art only gets someone so far."
True, but it can still be great practice for getting certain shapes down, coloring, and whatever other art techniques can be used.
Of course, I just defend it so I give myself an excuse to continue Fanfiction.