So, if you play Pathfinder at all, or are interested in it, he wants to get some feedback from people actually trying out the characters in order to better design the cutie mark mechanics.
Earth Pony/Unicorn Now After the Break! (With even more grammar edits)
98 comments:
A roll playing game where I can play as a pony in an epic fantasy world? I'm kind of tempted to look into it...
ReplyDelete>print
ReplyDelete>laminate
>collect
>trade
>sell to children
Dear Celestia...
Actually I'm really interested in this, probably more than I should be XD
ReplyDeleteSomething for us tabletop gaming enthusiasts who also love ponies? Fantastic! Never played Pathfinder, unfortunately, I really should look into it now.
ReplyDeleteHere's also hoping that after he get's all the different pony mechanics down, he or someone else will try statting out griffon...
Good idea, but he seriously needs a proofreader.
ReplyDelete=3 Oh Lovecraft!! You have the same track mind as me. What a great idea!! I want griffins too! I would so make my sister play if I could do that XD (most likely will anyway though)
ReplyDeletePinkie Pie would like a word with this guy, she can do magic and she's an earth pony.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteHe's been asking people to proofread it in /co/ for a while now. Perhaps you could help him out?
Lovin' how FightingFire is now a "crazy /tg/ brony".
ReplyDeleteEither way, looking forward to whatever sprouts from this, hopefully some sort of Tinychat-based campaign or something.
Damn. I just realised Hoity Toity, Photo Finish and Sapphire Shores were all earth ponies. Whoever said earth was boring?
ReplyDeleteCool project anyway, I love reading this kind of stuff.
Hope they do a seapony too.
ReplyDeleteJust to have all four types.
Yes I know there not in the show, yet.
@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteAnd Sapphire Shores doesn't have a cutie mark. Earth ponies can go places!
Hahah brilliant. As a player just getting into Pathfinder this is gold.
ReplyDeleteAs a tabletop gamer with dufflebags full of D&D (3.5 mostly some 4E), Rifts, and other random books, I found Pathfinder to actually seem like an improvement to 3.5. I have yet to have a chance to play it, but know enough about d20 and table top to see where it is good.
ReplyDeleteI can't wait to see where this goes.
@Everyone.
ReplyDeleteWhelp, I would love to hear everything you guys have to say about this thing. Please tell me any mistakes I have made at all. And @Lovecraft, I already have Griffon and Dragon stated out (dragon slightly based on v4 dragonborn), and I will be getting to their pages. Thanks for all the feedback, and I will try and get these next pages out as fast as work and free time will allow!
Pardon me for being so technologically inept, but I have no idea where to find /co/, but I'd love to help out. I actually considered doing a MLP:FiM tabletop RPG myself, but the project went nowhere, so if there's anything I could do to help (even if it's just playtesting), I'm in :) Keep it up, FightingFire!
ReplyDeleteNice, this got on here.
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to seeing the rest FF.
@Anonymous boards.4chan.org/co/
ReplyDeleteIf this is your first time on the site, it will take a while for you to learn the ropes.
As a gamer, this amuses me way, way too much. :D
ReplyDelete@FightingFire
ReplyDeleteFantastic! Can't wait to see what else you put out.
@Lurks-no-More
ReplyDeleteThen prepare to be amused.
@Lovecraft
You'll see soon, as I'm almost done with Unicorns (needs testing and input, but the writings mostly done), and Pegasi will come soon.
I have a couple of the books but I've yet to play the game. If anything deserves an rpg it would be My Little Pony, heck G1 alone had enough villians worthy of a DnD campaign.
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to what you have coming up next.
Fun and inventive! I love stuff like this. It could still use a good proof-reading, though. But, hey, fun.
ReplyDelete@FightingFire
ReplyDeleteLooking these over from a purely mechanical standpoint, they seem a little unbalanced. Earth ponies are better than the already awesome humans for any class where you don't need to hold things--they're better druids or wizards than any base race. Unicorns are better mages than elves, but are eclipsed by humans and earth ponies.
Both are pretty bad for melee classes, but as long as there are other races available that doesn't really matter.
Non-dextrous is just plain not a drawback for the right classes. I'd treat it more as a flavor aspect and not factor it in when balancing.
It's weird that earth ponies do better with magic than unicorns (the cantrips are cute, but spell penetration vs. a free feat is no contest), and both need to be brought down a bit. I'd recommend giving unicorns -2 Con to match elves, and cutting earth ponies' bonus skill point.
The pages look very well-made, though. Everything is clean and matches with the pathfinder aesthetic well. Nice work!
@yrthak
ReplyDeleteI can easily see where you care coming from, as I have had those same issues with the races as well. My initial plan was to only give magic to Unicorns and Dragons, but that felt too restricting to the players. I may end up removing the Earth Ponies bonus feat, and give Unicorns a +1 DC to all magic (put that also feels overpowering). But no, the real, REAL issue comes from an Earth Pony monk. I can find no way to make an Earth Pony monk not super overpowered, while still having them keep the same feel as the characters from the show.
If you have any suggestions, I would be glad to take them.
Heh, I have to say I cringe a little every time either of the princesses is called a goddess- just personal preference, of course, and there is the phrase "thank Celestia". Then again, neither of them currently wields the most powerful magic in Equestria...
ReplyDeleteIn any case, will pegasus cloud manipulation be classified as magic? If so, other creatures seem capable of similar feats, for example the Griffon Gilda could sit on a cloud with Rainbow.
Lastly, balance might indeed be a problem. Fluffwise, Earth ponies being gifted druids would make perfect sense- they have an innate link to the earth after all. Wizards, however, not so much. Perhaps some caster level penalty for arcane magic or some such?
PS: Please don't let my rambling discourage you, I've only slept two hours since the day before yesterday^^ I do want to see more of this!
Shouldn't unicorns have at the very least normal dexterity by using telekinesis? Or is this considered a spell?
ReplyDeleteI would, for instance, expect that Rarity is far more dexterous than a normal human.
Embodyment > Embodiment
ReplyDeleteSolice > Solace
Twn > Town
"their power to try..." > "their power(s) in
attempts to"
"the other ponies" > "other ponies"
All in the first paragraph as well. I think word/notepad can easily alert you to all these minor issues with the spellchecker on.
it's head > its head
Unicorns mane > Unicorn's mane
I think I'll stop here now since you should more or less have an idea of what you're trying to say - unless it's meant to be this way.
No doubt that I'm going to try this.
ReplyDeleteWill probably wait for the Cutie mark description first.
So Unicorns worship Luna, and Earth Ponies worship Celestia...
ReplyDeleteThat's quite interesting. It makes sense when you consider Twilight's love of the night sky, though. But which church will Pegasi follow?
I play traditional games regularly. This is relevant to my interests.
ReplyDeleteI know what campaign I'm running as soon as this is done.
ReplyDeleteDon't know if this has been mentioned before but in episode 9 7:30 twilight speaks of beeing born with magic (unicorn). But she also says that it is possible to cast curses without beeing an unicorn, though you require components.
ReplyDeleteSo are earth ponies able to be necromancers and the like then?
Dangit this kind of stuff is making me REALLY interested in pathfinder... I was never interested in D&D or Exalted...
ReplyDelete@FightingFire I wouldn't worry about monks, honestly. The class still has too many issues, even in Pathfinder (can't move and flurry, low damage even compared to a fighter, only does HP damage) that a race that synergizes well isn't anything to be concerned about. By level 10, every monk I've ever seen has been really sad.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteThe Glorious and Awesome Church of our Divine Lady Rainbow Dash, of course.
@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteDon't worry, I'll keep going even if everypony in Equestria abandons me! (lol). I am giving Pegasus Ponies the ability to walk on clouds, but I am not sure about the magic.
@Anonymous
I believe that I already gave Unicorns with a cutie mark the ability to use mage hand as real hands for the purpose of non-dexterous, but I'll look into it anyway!
@Lotte
Thank you for the edits! Photoshop doesn't have a very good spellcheck, and I copy paste to word is really annoying. Thanks again!
@Anonymous
Yes, I still want to give Earth Ponies and the like the option to be mages, but I also need to make it so they are a balanced race, and not suited to magic as much as Unicorns are.
@yrthak
I would agree with you, except that I have seen a level 10 dragon monk kill a Balor in one round. ONE ROUND. He (the player) used every single ki point he had to make around 30-70 attacks, and absolutely ruined the Demon. It was amazing. It's stuff like that that I want to avoid.
@Anonymous
Lol. I would, but since Rainbow Dash is my waifu, I don't want her as god status.
Sorry if I missed anyone, I'm workiong off of a laptop at a conference right now, and won't be back late friday.
I wonder if we'll get zebras too.
ReplyDeleteI like it, but some of the general description seems to do that thing were one representation of a race defines that race. This is fine when we don't really see much of a race but a single individual and we can make the assumption that the dude we know is a nice general member of his race, but the unicorns in this seem a bit more Twilight then Rarity. Rarity is knowledgeable in her field, that being something she shares with Twilight seems to make that a good stereotype to attribute to unicorns, but Twilight seemed to be somewhat unique in being a bit anti-social. The unicorns in Canterlot thought Twilight was a bookworm more interested in studying then friends, as if though that was weird.
ReplyDelete@FightingFire
ReplyDeleteOne thing that might help balance in actual games is to limit pony characters to NPC classes. Just a thought.
is it bad to say "want nao"? I know they need time to work on it, hell I'll probably never get a game of dnd going again period just cause I'm too busy lately, but... must... have...
ReplyDeleteI want to know what is on page 35!!
ReplyDeleteI am curious about the cutie mark mechanic.
ReplyDeleteAlso need pantheon and magic list ASAP!
So...where are the other pages?
ReplyDeleteIf i were this guy i would keep it at these tree races 1st and move on to classes. I think ironing those out 1st gives a better perspective of what kind of options you have for the cutie mark system.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous
ReplyDeletePinkie Pie can't do magic. She's just able to see through the fourth wall.
Pathfinder runs on 3.5, right?
ReplyDeleteI'll have to run a pony campaign sometime.
Concerning Pegasus Ponies specifically: while I can understand the difficulties in keeping true to the pony breed and maintaining a sense of mechanical balance, it's always useful to remain aware that Dungeons and Dragons (and Pathfinder by extension) is primarily a tactics and combat simulation game, and as such one of the two key resources in the game is maneuverability (the other being economy of actions, but that tends to apply to all games with outcomes determined by player skill/input). While I'm not intimately familiar with Pathfinder specifically (and I am aware that it follows Paizo's general philosophy of high-powered gaming), traditionally such massive boosts to movement such as flight are heavily restricted before 6th or 7th level, even at craptastic levels of control. Combined with their cloudwalking, Pegasus ponies are capable of completely upending the rules of low level combat and become a headache for large numbers of environmental and dungeon-based challenges. Given especially that they don't even share the Earth ponies' lack of skill with arcane magic, I have a large degree of fear that the race is balanced against other pony types.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I know it's difficult to ignore the fact that they have wings, and with so many flying about in the show also seems wonky to tie the mechanic to a high enough level. Even so, you might want to consider additional drawbacks or limitations to the prolonged usage of their wings before say, level 7.
Seems like it's been a fun project for you, regardless. Hope you keep at it!
The ponies should be in the small size category. They are called My Little Ponies for a reason.
ReplyDelete@Phoe
ReplyDeleteYeah, I was really worried about that too. Flight is an absolutely MASSIVE bonus to have, and I tried to balance it out by only giving them movement bonuses (such as cloudwalk and super speed strut). I may restrict flying to higher levels, but that contradicts what we saw in the second episode (those baby pegasi putting the flower wreath on Luna). But also
Another thing I may want to do is give Earth Ponies back the bonus feat. The goal would be to give them a bonus like humans, but make it so they are not super overpowered mages (basically forcing players to use the feat to negate down to earth. Dick move, I know, but it would be pretty balanced). If there are any other suggestions you would make, please tell me, I'm still pretty deep in the development stages XD.
Stuff I gotta say before I pop XD
ReplyDelete1: Pathfinder is pretty much a [very heavily] modded 3.5 DND game, these rules would work in conventional 3.5 DND also as is. the way some rules are written in Paizo's version, it might need some re-tweaking but would pretty much work out of the box for either game at least.
2: I do think its funny that a pegasus will outdo an earth pony casting magic hands down due to down to earth. I think they'd need a version of down to earth for pegasi also [call it head in the clouds, same effect]
3: as for flying, Raptorians [I believe savage species book] is a good example of a flying race, they can only glide until about lv 6 or so [when majority of casters should have full access to fly and similar spells], similar with the warlock which could gain a fly ability no earlier then lv6 as well IIRC. been a few years but 6 seemed to be the magic number for flight abilities.
Heh I wonder if cutie marks give feat-like effects [hello Barbarian cutie mark, bye-bye whoever you donkey kick into the next county]
How about making racial templates for Zebras and Buffalos as well? (although, frankly, a mighty engine of destruction like Chief Thunderhoof would basically be overkill...)
ReplyDeleteNa, Thunderhoof's a high lv barbarian/warblade with charge/rushing attack feats/white raven maneuvers up the ying-yang. maybe even epic lv.
ReplyDeleteYou might want to consider giving them all some form of natural weapons, like the unicorn. We've seen ponies in the show kick things with their front or back legs, and even horse in D&D have two hoof attacks don't they?
ReplyDeleteWe haven't seen any of them use weapons yet. Just seems to me that if a Pegasus or Earth Pony really wanted to fight they'd use their natural attacks rather than struggle with a sword.
If you went the natural attack route, you could always make horseshoes into some type of weapon? They could be enchanted like normal.
Please, avoid races that require level adjustments or race base classes.
ReplyDeleteMainly because part of the reason Pathfinder was made was to get rid of them since they had the tenacity to cause the Human or Elan problem.
This thread: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183223 should give you the proper means to balance out your races without going into level adjustments.
@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteI will definitely consider adding the head in the clouds thing to pegasi, but now I am severely concerned over how griffins are going to work. I will need to do some serious balancing to make them not OP (as they do not have non-dexterous). I will also implement the flying at level 6 or so as you recommended, since that seems like a good idea.
@Anonymous
I was planning to, and still am. Zebras are going to act like half Unicorn half Earth Ponies, and Buffalo are giant dwarves. Adding the other races I am making, that's a total of 7. wat.
@Anonymous
Well, trample is a special attack using the hooves, and the hooves count as fists for the ponies (I think 1d4 or so), so I don't need to really explain it. Also, a sword, even if you can only hold one, is always better than punching stuff. Non-dexterous applies only to trying to use their hooves; they can swing swords in their mouth as well as any other creature.
@invinible
This will be extremely helpful. So far, the races stack up like this point wise:
Earth Pony: 7 (speed +8, trample +4, sturdy +1, cutie mark +2 (going to work like mad skillz, but may be +3), down to earth -4, Non-Dexterous -4)
Pegasus: 14 (speed +8, flight +4, SS strut +2, cloudwalk +2, cutie mark +2, non-dexterous -4)
Unicorn: 16 (speed +8, magic (spell penetration) +4, Cantrips +4, Gore +2, Cutie Mark +2, Non-Dexterous -4)
Well hmm. I was thinking that the Earth Pony was underpowered, and could use the bonus feat back, but that puts them at 15. If I make their base speed 35 it would balance out, or I could just say that the speed thing is the least likely to be scrutinized and ignore the +4 for the second upgrade. I also question just how much of a detriment non-dexterous is. I counted it as a -4, but it may be only a -2, or a -6. I don't know how bad of a penalty not having hands is (I would think a large one). So anyway, I was thinking ignore the second speed increase (so the speed bonus would be +4), give Earth Ponies back the bonus feat, make Pegasi have the flight adjustments that anonymous suggested, and give Unicorns the ability "stressed", so they gain a -1 to saves when they are bloodied.
That's about what I got out of all of this. Feel free to berate my thinking, and tell me how to fix the horrible mistakes I have made. Thanks!
@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteI will definitely consider adding the head in the clouds thing to pegasi, but now I am severely concerned over how griffins are going to work. I will need to do some serious balancing to make them not OP (as they do not have non-dexterous). I will also implement the flying at level 6 or so as you recommended, since that seems like a good idea.
@Anonymous
I was planning to, and still am. Zebras are going to act like half Unicorn half Earth Ponies, and Buffalo are giant dwarves. Adding the other races I am making, that's a total of 7. wat.
@Anonymous
Well, trample is a special attack using the hooves, and the hooves count as fists for the ponies (I think 1d4 or so), so I don't need to really explain it. Also, a sword, even if you can only hold one, is always better than punching stuff. Non-dexterous applies only to trying to use their hooves; they can swing swords in their mouth as well as any other creature.
@invinible
This will be extremely helpful. So far, the races stack up like this point wise:
Earth Pony: 7 (speed +8, trample +4, sturdy +1, cutie mark +2 (going to work like mad skillz, but may be +3), down to earth -4, Non-Dexterous -4)
Pegasus: 14 (speed +8, flight +4, SS strut +2, cloudwalk +2, cutie mark +2, non-dexterous -4)
Unicorn: 16 (speed +8, magic (spell penetration) +4, Cantrips +4, Gore +2, Cutie Mark +2, Non-Dexterous -4)
Well hmm. I was thinking that the Earth Pony was underpowered, and could use the bonus feat back, but that puts them at 15. If I make their base speed 35 it would balance out, or I could just say that the speed thing is the least likely to be scrutinized and ignore the +4 for the second upgrade. I also question just how much of a detriment non-dexterous is. I counted it as a -4, but it may be only a -2, or a -6. I don't know how bad of a penalty not having hands is (I would think a large one). So anyway, I was thinking ignore the second speed increase (so the speed bonus would be +4), give Earth Ponies back the bonus feat, make Pegasi have the flight adjustments that anonymous suggested, and give Unicorns the ability "stressed", so they gain a -1 to saves when they are bloodied.
That's about what I got out of all of this. Feel free to berate my thinking, and tell me how to fix the horrible mistakes I have made. Thanks!
@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteI will definitely consider adding the head in the clouds thing to pegasi, but now I am severely concerned over how griffins are going to work. I will need to do some serious balancing to make them not OP (as they do not have non-dexterous). I will also implement the flying at level 6 or so as you recommended, since that seems like a good idea.
@Anonymous
I was planning to, and still am. Zebras are going to act like half Unicorn half Earth Ponies, and Buffalo are giant dwarves. Adding the other races I am making, that's a total of 7. wat.
@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteWell, trample is a special attack using the hooves, and the hooves count as fists for the ponies (I think 1d4 or so), so I don't need to really explain it. Also, a sword, even if you can only hold one, is always better than punching stuff. Non-dexterous applies only to trying to use their hooves; they can swing swords in their mouth as well as any other creature.
@invinible
This will be extremely helpful. So far, the races stack up like this point wise:
Earth Pony: 7 (speed +8, trample +4, sturdy +1, cutie mark +2 (going to work like mad skillz, but may be +3), down to earth -4, Non-Dexterous -4)
Pegasus: 14 (speed +8, flight +4, SS strut +2, cloudwalk +2, cutie mark +2, non-dexterous -4)
Unicorn: 16 (speed +8, magic (spell penetration) +4, Cantrips +4, Gore +2, Cutie Mark +2, Non-Dexterous -4)
Well hmm. I was thinking that the Earth Pony was underpowered, and could use the bonus feat back, but that puts them at 15. If I make their base speed 35 it would balance out, or I could just say that the speed thing is the least likely to be scrutinized and ignore the +4 for the second upgrade. I also question just how much of a detriment non-dexterous is. I counted it as a -4, but it may be only a -2, or a -6. I don't know how bad of a penalty not having hands is (I would think a large one). So anyway, I was thinking ignore the second speed increase (so the speed bonus would be +4), give Earth Ponies back the bonus feat, make Pegasi have the flight adjustments that anonymous suggested, and give Unicorns the ability "stressed", so they gain a -1 to saves when they are bloodied.
That's about what I got out of all of this. Feel free to berate my thinking, and tell me how to fix the horrible mistakes I have made. Thanks!
Maybe earth ponies, with the lack of magic or flying capabilities, might have a lessened non-dexterous penalty, I mean look at what pinky pie makes >_>
ReplyDeleteoh anon above again, in case it helps earth ponies stack up vs pegasus and unicorns more.
ReplyDeleteI think you misunderstand what cutie marks are suppose to represent. While some do indicate power(s) of the respective ponies that they are on, they don't give powers in of themselves.
ReplyDeleteWhat they do show is the pony's strongest qualities at the time of receiving said mark. Since it requires strong qualities to get, trying to force the process to it by the pony that wants it will cause the pony to not get it ALL their qualities will naturally be too low to get 1 than while the pony that doesn't try to force it will eventually get their own as 1 or more qualities will naturally get strong enough at 1 point to qualify them for 1.
So as far as I see it, Cutie Marks are either a 0 point worth when making a race for being too situational to really matter in most campaigns or a -1 point worth when making a race for giving at least base idea what a certain pony is like.
Trixie
ReplyDeleteI freelance for Paizo/Pathfinder, and I would buy this in a heartbeat. :D
ReplyDeleteI would buy this in a heartbeat, although there is no link in this blogspot to see the rest of the rules (or the author's site). Please someone share the link?
ReplyDeleteThank you.
It would be nice to see the Cutie Mark info, since no link is given here.
@FightingFire
ReplyDeleteThis is a really cool concept! I don't currently play Pathfinder, so my input isn't as specific as I'd like, but I'm familiar with D&D 3.0 & 3.5 and I can use the Pathfinder SRD as well as anyone. I apologize ahead of time for my wordiness. My personal thoughts:
1) I'd stick with hooves doing 1d3 same as any medium creature wearing a gauntlet. Yeah, I can see the argument for it being 1d4 based on them being quadrupeds and thus having stronger fore limbs than most bipeds, but there's a point cost for that, and we're trying to keep them balanced, right? (By the guidelines that were linked, there's technically a 2 point cost even for the 1d3 attack, but I question the logic of this since all medium humanoids do 1d3 non-lethal and there are no examples of a race doing 1d3 lethal. The only significant advantage is if the character doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity by striking unarmed, and I don't think that applies here.) If anyone would get a small boost like that, it would be Earth Ponies since everything they do is without benefit of wings or magic. That might be better left as a racial feat though. I do like the idea of horseshoes as weapons. Spiked horseshoes could be treated as cestuses perhaps? Since they lack fingers for rings and don't have hands for gauntlets, some thought will need to be given to whether ponies have other slots for enchanted items or if this should be another minor racial penalty.
2) I saw you were considering re-evaluating Non-Dextrous. I'd say that's a wise idea - the Earth Ponies have built entire towns without the use of hands, and it's reasonable to assume that Unicorns do not make all of the clothes and other finery, so their lack of Dexterity isn't as bad as one might think. That said, they do have a very genuine problem worth a -4 point penalty, and I'd call the penalty One Thing At a Time: Ponies have nimble lips which can manipulate things with as much dexterity as a human hand, but if their mouth is full, their options on manipulating anything else are pretty much limited to nudges, kicks, or planting a hoof atop it and maybe trying to roll/slide it around. Because of this, Ponies do not have an off hand to hold a shield, second weapon, or anything else, and they can only wield two-handed weapons at a -2 penalty unless the weapon has been specially modified for Pony use.
3) I'd suggest keeping the Earth Pony speed where it is unless you also want to recalculate the Unicorn's cost. Instead I would suggest that Earth Ponies get +2 to any Physical attribute and +2 to any Mental attribute. Applejack, for instance, has +2 Strength and +2 Charisma while Pinkie Pie has +2 Constitution and +2 Wisdom. Yes, I said Constitution. Seriously, Pinkie Pie is amusing to watch from a safe distance, but she is a complete spaz!
4) You messed up slightly on the Unicorn calculations. Non-human stats are +2 Physical, +2 Mental, -2 Any. You gave Unicorns +2 Mental, another +2 Mental, and -2 Physical. Dropping the Physical bonus (-2 points) and adding a second Mental bonus (+8 points) is worth +6 points according to the guidelines. If I may suggest, how about giving Unicorns the following: +2 Intelligence OR Wisdom, -2 Strength OR Constitution. As evidence, I would like to note that Twilight Sparkle is very Intelligent but really not noticeably more wise than any other pony. Rarity is likewise intelligent yet has lacked the Wisdom to hire helpers so that her shop could expand beyond its modest scope. If anything, this seems to suggest that being a unicorn only provides bonuses to Intelligence.
Continuing from above...
ReplyDeleteMy reason for leaving the bonus as a choice of one or the other lies with the princesses. Princess Celestia is clearly wise (as one might expect of a living goddess) yet there is no evidence that she has an above normal Intelligence for a high level NPC. Princess Luna on the other hand clearly is the stronger of the two in magic but if anything is slightly below normal Wisdom for her level. One might be tempted to say this has more to do with them being goddesses or hybrids except that applying the racial attributes of both Pegasi and Unicorns to them fits really well. Such hybrids would also need a +1 level adjustment making them poorly suited as a player race which fits MLP: FIM just fine.
Point being, this change helps bring the cost of Unicorns down by 2 points (i.e. they negate one of their ability bonuses). To further reduce the cost of the race, I would like to note that not all Unicorns are expert casters. Twilight Sparkle was notable as an exceptional caster, but Rarity has exhibited only modest abilities. Dropping their spell penetration (except maybe as a Racial Feat) in addition to the adjusted attributes brings them down to 10 points.
5) It has been established in the show that Pegasi can fly from very early ages. It has also been established that in Equestria, flying is merely useful rather than a massive advantage. Even the guidelines that were linked only rate flying as being worth +4 points. In light of this, I would have to say that withholding flight until level 6 is a bad idea and completely unnecessary. Okay, flying lets you reach high things fairly easily and have less fear of falling. You're still arrow bait if you're a brightly colored pony flapping slowly across a blue sky. I know people like to think dropping things from above is a big deal, but accurately bombing people from an altitude high enough to make it better than throwing things at them is harder than it sounds and lower altitude drops can be done by any humanoid in a forest or on a ridge. Speaking of forests, you won't be flying in one nor flying inside most buildings unless you choose feats to improve your flying maneuverability above Poor. If you give Pegasi the additional penalty Head In the Clouds, that brings them down to 10 points.
6) The way you're suggesting handling Cutie Marks is a bit off. In the linked guideline, Mad Skills refers to specific skills shared by all members of the race. That is not the case with Cutie Marks which are unique to each pony. If you handle Cutie Marks as a bonus to any skill they choose, that's the same as Skill Focus (+3 to a skill of your choice) and would be worth +4 points. Skilled Like a Human is worth +2 points but just gives an extra skill point per level, and that point can be put into any skill. My thought is that Cutie Marks have some similarity to both of these traits but have limitations as well. Half-A-Feat is only worth 2 points and could be used to grant a +1 or +2 (round up or down?) bonus to a skill of your choice. Combine that with Skilled Like a Human (+2 more points) but limit it because the extra skill point per level MUST go into the chosen skill (-1 point). Additionally as Invinible said, having a picture on your body that gives a strong clue about your nature is worth -1 points. That takes us back down to the 2 points you'd used in your calculations for the ponies.
Further continued and thankfully concluding...
ReplyDelete7) The only example we have of a Zebra is Zecora who seems rather similar to an Earth Pony and probably has the same speed boost, Trample, and Sturdy abilities. While Zecora has something that looks like a Cutie Mark, this could be painted on or it could be an ordinary tattoo. She's able to brew potions, but there is nothing to indicate that this is a racial ability. Zecora certainly hasn't exhibited any abilities that would negate the One Thing At a Time and Down to Earth penalties, so if Zebras do not have the benefit of Cutie Marks, you have up to 6 more points* you can give them. Let's face it, Zebras are portrayed as being equivalent to tribal Africans, so it would not be absurd to give them the +1 point ability of racial Weapon Proficiencies e.g. Spear, Kukri, Hunga Munga, and Thorn Bracer. Yes, a spear is a simple weapon, so virtually any class can use it, but this would let mages use them too. You could always make it a Totem Spear if you want to give them access to another special weapon. I would suggest either Spell Resistance or Lucky to finish out their abilities and bring them up to 10 points.
*10 is the target, but using the guideline given, elves are worth 11, so going one over is acceptable.
8) Gryphons needn't be so scary. Gryphons can fly and would also have Cloudwalk, but I don't think Super Speed Strut suits them. Even if Gilda is abnormal for her species, there's no reason to assume Gryphons are particularly Charismatic, so dropping that is worth -2 points. Unless Gilda is an atypical Gryphon, they lack Cutie Marks so no points for that. Yes, Gryphons can manipulate things with more ease than ponies and can potentially wield two weapons or a weapon and a shield, but only by adopting a bipedal stance. This stance is not natural to them and so they would lose their speed boost on the ground. Their air speed would be unaffected as long as they do not reach Medium encumbrance, so that's probably only a -1 point penalty. Still, that's a total of -3 points so far which you need because Gryphons do have claws which is worth +4 points. That totals up to 7 points before adding in a speed boost. My suggestion then is to given them a base speed of 35 rather than 40. This keeps them down to 11 points which as mentioned before is still balanced and does not contradict anything in the show - Gilda might well be fast for her race; she could have chosen the Feat Fleet.
Addendum/Errata: A friend alerted me to a couple issues.
ReplyDelete#1 My point regarding the Unicorns may have led off with arguments based on the guidelines linked, but let me stress that I also do not feel we have seen a Unicorn on the show who seemed equally gifted in Wisdom and Intelligence. The fact that Twilight Sparkle comes closest is, I feel, likely more to do with how points were allocated for her than with a racial tendency.
#2 I referred to Pegasi being Poor flyers when I meant to put Clumsy like you originally specified. Oops. The gist was supposed to be that I felt you got it right the first time, and I wanted to reassure you that you should not change that aspect - just give them Head In the Clouds like Anonymous suggested.
Hopefully that clarifies some of my statements. If not, I can only say that insomnia sucks and does nothing for one's ability to communicate clearly.
@Kree
ReplyDeleteAre you on drugs?
I've checked through the racial stats and all.
ReplyDeleteAnd have a few suggestions. I might not know what the "rules" for making you own race is, nor could I find anything in the other comments about it (or just missed them) but in either way: (also: sorry for wall of text, tried to split it into more readable parts)
One of the things I thought needed to be added for all ponies was a slam attack (natural weapon: hoof) similar to the unicorns 1d6 gore attack (the basic gore damage from what I know to other medium races with one).
Another thing that'd needs to looked over is the "creature type". They can't be humanoid, nor monstrous humanoid. But possibly magical beast?
Also, Earth Ponies might should have improved non-dexterous? Or possibly: Toss in some "pony feats"? Like... just wildy comming up with suggestions here:
[Dexterous training]: You do not suffer -2 when using two handed, and your -10 drops to -6"
[Rodeo]: You are adept at tossing off "grapples" and grabs, and do no suffer the -something? (ponies should get a negative modifier when being grappled due to well, their ponies. Or is that included in their -10 penalty?)"
[Track Star/Hoofing it] "You are a bit faster then your fellow ponies." Add 10 to movement speed.
[Cultivation] "You have further studied the.. something of .. something" Improves some racial bonuses? Like, by 50 % or so (ex: sturdy would become +6, and the +2 stat would become +3 etc, ASF would drop to 8 % and so on.)
[Empathic] Some kind of copy of the "original" ability, but with fellow ponies or something. Can't remember what it did. Maybe just a racial bonus when communicating with other ponies?
[Pony of action] Improved natural weapon or something?
Then when it comes to the cutie marks: I actually think it could work like a multi-purpose feat in a kind of way. And while some of the suggestions here might seem way out of proportion, but just hear me out on the examples of what I think it should be able to give:
1: 2+ to any stat. While you might think this is a bit outrageous, it's not much worse then a bonus feat. Since yes, there's feats that does this, as well as enchants. Just take Pinkie for example. Not the best one I could come up with, but in either case: Her cutie mark could might as well be giving her +2 cha. Since well, her "special talent" is just being... Pinkie... heh
Continue \/
2: +1-3 on a certain weapon or magic skill. Kinda like a weapon focus or arcane specialization feat. The "1 to 3" is symbolic to how "varied" your pony is with said talent. For example: A pony with a mace cutie mark would get +1 (to hit and damage) to all blunt weapons, while another one might get +2 due to it's talent being "only maces", not other blunt weapons such as hammer, flail, mallet, staff and etc. And +3 if being only a specific mace type, ex: "equine made aquamarine mace of celestia+3" (you get the point) And same would go for magic. Ex: Fire cutie mark, +1 to all fire spells. +2 for specific such as "exploding fire spells" and +3 for the use of a single spell, like fiery hand of doom.
ReplyDelete3: +12 on a single ability, +8 on two or +4 on three. Ok, before anyone goes "hax". Just keep in mind the -10 they got for certain skills. And allot of skills in D&D do require hands. Technically, almost all. And there's races with like, +30 to an ability (it was jump, but still. There's one with +8 hide and move silently, with no level mod. So yeah... I originally had a even higher bonus in mind. So just look over a basic example: A bard pony, would get +12 to ex: Perform: String Instruments. And with the -10, it'd end up on +2 bonus. Do keep in mind races like half elf get a few +2 bonuses and etc. Althou, a paladin pegasus pony, could get a +13 on ex: diplomacy (with added racial cha) which would be a bit much overall. Possible to give a higher bonus for things that are affected by dexterity?
Etc bonus: Such as: Low light vision, animal companion (way worse then "regular" ones ofc), an additional +10 speed. Speak: Animal language. Chosen skill is always a class skill, and +4 on it. Some other random feat. Spell like abilities, ex: charm, "the stare", confuse.
I hope it wasn't to confusing or badly explained.
And hopefully it won't be seen as to unbalanced. But as said: It's just rough ideas/suggestions.
Alright, just wanted to apologize to all those who still take the time to check this post. I have been absolutely SWAMPED with work for the past two wees, but it should let up soon. I hope to have Dragon and Griffin completed by Sunday or Monday. again, really sorry for the delays and stuff, but real life comes before ponies.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteNot at all, but I was suffering from a mild case of insomnia when I wrote all that. It probably helps that I'm a bit OCD. Heck, I almost went on to stat out my thoughts on the Buffalos and Dragons, but then I finally started feeling tired enough to actually fall asleep.
@FightingFire
No problem, FF! Life happens; we all know that. I hope things ease up soon, of course!
Here are cutie mark rules that I figure would be correct:
ReplyDelete1. Can only have as many cutie marks as your character has personalities, all of which are to be chosen by the DM(s) rather the the player(s) controlling the character(s). (Remember there is a different between bipolar or so personality and multiple personalities even if the latter also has 1 or more of the former within them.)
2. The cutie mark that is visible to see to see at any point is based on the character's personality their personality in charge.
3. If multiple personalities are in charge of the character at the same time than the cutie marks that represent each of the controlling personalities rotate in a cycle.
4. If somebody tries to get a cutie mark by forcing it than they are straight out denied the cutie mark every time they do so.
5. If the character's cutie mark is beyond recommission once your character is dead than anybody whom attempts to resurrect that character can forego trying to restore the cutie mark so they don't have to deal with the penalty of getting the mark wrong rather causing a new blank flank status expect if the resurrecter is the character being resurrected whom than must always attempt to restore the cutie mark to its previous state than.
6. Cutie marks don't carry over between reincarnations.
7. Cutie mark is determined when 1 or more facts of the character are so strongly represented by the character at a time they aren't trying to force them as such.
and 8. Cutie marks are only visible in a race form that the race's template states the race is associated with cutie marks.
With all that I think cutie marks should be a -1 cost in determining races based on the link to the Pathfinder creation race rules I linked to earlier in this thread.
I'm not really that for multiple marks, nor personalities locked to the cutie marks tbh.
ReplyDeleteI however agree on #4 and #6
I thought of another possibility for them thou:
1: They remove any penalties to the related cutie mark task (however not "regular" penalties, such as "you're missing all limbs" or "you're in an earthquake", but penalties such as the racial -10 non-dexterous, and possibly the ability to work like "skill mastery" (always take 10).
2: In addition, could grant a ~+2 racial bonus to the related task.
3: That will scale with level, just the pegasus flight ability, perhaps every 3'rd like with a feat, or every 4'th like ability raise. (additional ~+2 for every "raise")
A disadvantage to playing one of these ponies in a pathfinder game: The party's halfling will want a ride.
ReplyDelete@ Kyle
ReplyDeleteWhat if the pony wants to ride the halfling?
This is great(obviously "great" isn't a good enough word), but I'd really like to see page 35!
ReplyDelete@FightingFire, is there a blog or a page where you keep all of the updates to this? I am very interested in where this whole thing goes!
ReplyDeleteI was thinking the cutie mark just be a fee feat, basically a bonus feat and they get an image either chosen by the dm and the player based on their 'special' talent.
ReplyDeleteNot what I heard about rainbow dash lol!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.majhost.com/gallery/lern2surture/MLP/130849475817.jpg
(^ Language ^)
Zecora probably took levels in alchemist, though. Probably the Chirugeon variant from Ultimate Magic, though....
ReplyDeleteCutie marks should be a lot like the dragon marks from 3.5 Ebberron.
OMG You forgot Alicorn's. You know, Pegasi with Magic power's inbued in a horn, like a Unicorn's.
ReplyDeletesorry, HE forgot the Alicorn. hehe... whoopsiedaisy.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk31pRobl_M
^Giggle at the Ghostly^
Ok... let's get it out:
ReplyDeleteI WANT TO PLAY THAT!
Will page 35 ever be added? Cause we're playing a pathfinder set w/ my friends and I wanna come with a pegasus, but there are no rules for cutie marks yet, and it's... well I guess I can play without the rules and add the CM just for looks.
ReplyDeleteOr maybe I could just quote Applebloom and say: "I WANT IT NAO!"
Will we ever see page 35? I still want to know... Did it just get posted in another place? I need to stat out the mane six for a convention game that I am running, and I think I'll design custom character sheets for them as well. I was just wondering if anypony had already...
ReplyDeleteI wonder if this'll update again I'm looking forward to playing a pony campaign.
ReplyDeleteTo those who are interested I`m starting a game online to start beta testing Ponyfinder with what we have thus far see how breakable this may or may not be. The game will be run on www.rpol.net, its called MLP Adventures, the GM is The1Ryu. I invite any who are interested to come check it out.
ReplyDeleteThanks
I'm playing as a pegasus from this Ponyfinder here, in a setting where every other player is human. It's kinda funny, actually :D
ReplyDeleteStill, I'm a blank flank, because I don't know how cutie marks will be interpreted to dnd rules. I want page 35 and I want it NAO!
I'd suggest looking at the Advanced Race Guide playtest over at Paizo's site.
ReplyDeleteThe full book won't be out til Summer, but the playtest has plenty of guidelines to get started on building a Race in Pathfinder.
Hey. Not a brony, but VERY interested in where those background images came from...I've been looking all night. A little help for a fellow Pathfinder gamer?
ReplyDeleteGot a couple of feats for the pegasus if anypony is interested. It seems one of my group got himself into a fix by letting his mouth work faster than his brain and ended up becoming one. Tell me what you think.
ReplyDeleteCLOUD SHAPE
Prerequisites: Pegasus, Wis 13+, Level 3+
Benefit: By pushing, stretching, and otherwise manipulating clouds with your hooves, you can now form them into structures. With a successful Craft (architecture), Craft (Carpentry) or Craft (Sculpture) roll, these structures may take the form of houses, furniture, sculptures respectively. These structures may support objects weighing no more than five pounds each, and react as if they were made of more substantial material to those with the Cloudwalking ability or under the effects of the spell by the same name.
Normally, being constructed of nothing more than water vapor, clouds are subject to the whims of the wind. Those altered by this ability, however, have some resistance. These clouds ignore winds of up to 25mph, and reduce the range they are affected by the same amount.
CLOUD CONTROL
Prerequisites: Pegasus, Level 8+, Cloud Shape
Benefit: Your ability to manipulate clouds has reached a new level with this feat. You can now move clouds whose total dimensions do not exceed 5'/HD on each side. So a level 8 pegasus fighter with this feat may move a cloud up to 40'x40'x40' without any danger of it breaking up. You may also push smaller clouds into each other to combine their mass into one bigger cloud. Once a cloud reaches the storm cloud stage, this feat becomes a lot more dangerous.
The most impressive ability of this feat, however, would be to cause clouds to give off a stroke of lightning at will. This is a standard action, usually done by bucking the cloud, and does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You may direct the bolt to strike one creature up to 100ft. + 10ft. away/HD, inflicting 1d6 points of electricity damage for every 2HD you possess. The cloud must either be a storm cloud, or be from a storm cloud, whether it be natural, or the result of magical manipulation.
I Would Like to point out that It's a good time to update the Pony Races; the advanced Race guide has just come out, and could make things a bit easier to deal with.
ReplyDeleteOf course, the book doesn't cover everything, as it doesn't say what to do about armless races. But one could just as easily ignore that.
Omigoshomigoshomigosh! Pathfinder/d20 stats for pony races? Awesome! Though I'm of the opinion that Unicorns should be able to wield weapons with their magic, these stats look great so far! Looking forward to seeing the rules for cutie marks and other stuff for these.
ReplyDeleteHow did you make these images I am curious I might make some of my own for othet races like Luna's guards, Changelings, Cyrstal Ponies, Zebras, and maybe dragons and dragonlings
ReplyDeleteI created a FB fan page and some more stats for Ponyfinder if anyone cares.
ReplyDeleteFB Page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ponyfinder/519507884766562
Updated/Expanded Stats: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-GH6H2O2dYpkzSViZF9uS8keNAeMeLHDHId3vBjR9iY/edit